Monday Night Wars

[bob_barron 0]

But the midcard matches are usually so short.

 

Yuji-Dean was awesome though, I loved that

[JPopStarKami 0]

So let's take a look at some inside notes about these recent Raw shows via the WON:

 

* Sabu vs. Flash Funk is indeed the end of the WWF/ECW relationship. Lawler (or Sabu) and RVD vs. Dreamer and Sandman was in the works for SummerSlam but is now off the table. Federation officials were not pleased with RVD and Sabu's attitude towards their planned match finishes on the 6/23 Raw. More on this to come in General Wrestling.

 

* The 7/7/97 Raw drew 9,500 people (7,108 paid) to take in a $135,270 gate. This was the highest gate ever for a Raw taping, but because of the exchange rate, it was actually about $99,000 US, lower than the previous record of $115,271 from March 10th in Worcester, MA.

 

* I've never really noticed this, but Meltzer noted that Bret takes his bump before Austin hit him with the chair because he noticed Bulldog and Owen go down.

 

* Dave feels Taka / Sasuke was the best match of the night between Raw and Nitro, but the Villanos match on Nitro was close.

 

* Believes the 'Cain' angle is currently a lemon and not working and that Bearer's interview on the show was also a lemon.

 

*Off TV, Brian Christopher and Sunny left arm-in-arm.

 

* Sid is off TV due to a sciatic nerve problem but they hope he's back by SummerSlam (I bring this up because I believe he appears on the next Raw, then never again).

 

Where did you get these? I'm curious to read more.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

From a 1997 WON I chose as a retro issue when I subscribed back in March or April. I think I said I was going to post more notes in General but, outside of the Canadian Stampede notes, forgot.

[Boxer 0]

Sid at Summerslam eh? I gotta admit, where the heck would he have fit in by then? Heel turn? He wasn't in the WWF or IC title pictures at the time. Maybe a feud with Ahmed and the New Nation? Just thinking where Sid would've fit in at that time was intriguing to say the least.

[Diamonddust 0]

Sid at Summerslam eh? I gotta admit, where the heck would he have fit in by then? Heel turn? He wasn't in the WWF or IC title pictures at the time. Maybe a feud with Ahmed and the New Nation? Just thinking where Sid would've fit in at that time was intriguing to say the least.

 

Just throwing a wild idea out there, but it would have been an interesting train wreck to see Sid vs. Pillman.

[King Kamala 0]

Hide the squeegees!

 

But I agree. If they could somehow put their personal differences aside (and they might have to a certain extent by then), I think a Sid Vs Pillman feud would have been gold. Pillman could be his smart aleck self antagonizing the short tempered, dim witted Sid. Would have made for interesting promos at least.

[Boxer 0]

Man, adding a Sid vs. Pillman to go with HBK/Taker feud, Austin/Owen and Bret/Patroit would've made GREAT TV at the time.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Raw was pretty good this week (El Pantera!) but truly THIS was the highlight:

 

 

I'm still laughing about it. If this wasn't edited out by TSN, I can't believe I forgot such a thing. Or maybe I can.

[cabbageboy 0]

I enjoyed the minis match quite a bit, but I love Max Mini. He ruled. I recall seeing him in a dark match at a Raw in 1999 and thought he was incredible.

 

That said, Nitro was clearly the better show on that particular week. Plenty of quality wrestling on it and of course the major Hennig heel turn angle. WCW likely was better most of these weeks leading up to Starrcade 97, but man after that it seemed like things started reeling for WCW and the WWF started the build to the Rumble and WM and never looked back.

[Darth Pipes 0]

As I recall, JR took a shot at Schivonne on this week or next week's show, saying he wasn't going to leave the broadcast booth crying.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Must be the next episode since the current episode was taped.

 

The way Lawler gets the Stunner is awesome.

[cabbageboy 0]

Yeah that was hilarious. Lawler kept tormenting Austin by basically yelling in his ear and looking over his shoulder at the restraining order....I didn't blame Austin for stunning him.

[zappafrank 0]

The 9/8 episode of Nitro is pretty good. Rey/Eddie have a good match (Rey seems to botch a lot of his highspots but they make good saves), the Horseman stuff is good, and overall it's a pretty enjoyable show. Mark Curtis taking down the fan that ran in was pretty awesome too.

 

I think they may have edited some stuff from the Sting angle too, because a recap I'm reading mentions Hogan going out to the floor, saying Sting isn't breathing and calls for help. I just remember seeing someone throw the dummy in the ring while Hogan says "this wasn't supposed to happen". It's pretty obvious why they would edit that though and probably for the best.

 

Awesome, so I'm not the only one who reads old recaps to see what 24/7 has edited out (I use the recaps at otherarena.com). I noticed the same thing about the mannequin angle, and yeah, it's pretty obvious why it was edited.

 

Also, at the beginning with Mean Gene and the Horsemen, if you pay careful enough attention you can see how they skipped over any comments Benoit made and transitioned from Mongo to Flair.

[bob_barron 0]

I use John Petrie's recaps at Slobberknocker Central.

 

I don't know when Tony Schiavone became a joke announcer, but I loved him walking off the show in response to Hennig turning on Flair.

[Aero 0]

I don't know when Tony Schiavone became a joke announcer, but I loved him walking off the show in response to Hennig turning on Flair.

 

He gets really upset at Souled Out 98 when Dusty Rhodes turns on Larry and joins the nWo. Walks away from the booth for a few minutes, and then comes back and can barely call the Steiners & Traylor vs. nWo match.

 

[Darth Pipes 0]

JR would take a shot at Schivonne either on that week's Raw show or the next, telling the audience he wasn't going to walk off and start crying.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Petrie's recaps are also the ones at The Other Arena (until CRZ takes over) so we're all reading the same thing. I actually read them as a review of the show more than a "what was edited" guide, but it does work both ways.

[Jericholic82 0]

While the Hennig angle was predictable, it was still a good emotional way to start a feud, but it never led to anything and it helped to kill WCW in those Horsemen towns. Plus, as Flair stated in his book, Hennig gave the robe to Hogan, which technically transfered the heat onto Hogan and off where it should have been-on Hennig. And thus Hennig basically became a mid-card afterthought in WCW, unless you count the Rap vs Country feud as a major angle.

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

JR would take a shot at Schivonne either on that week's Raw show or the next, telling the audience he wasn't going to walk off and start crying.

 

Was that the show where Vince was stunned the first time?

[Darth Pipes 0]

That would be the one. I don't remember it being on that show but I do remember JR taking a shot at Tony.

[Diamonddust 0]

That would be the one. I don't remember it being on that show but I do remember JR taking a shot at Tony.

 

Then it's coming up. Vince takes his first stunner on the MSG Raw, which will be shown in September. Actually, that night was pretty historic:

 

-Vince takes his first stunner

-Cactus Jack "debuts" in the WWE

-Goldberg debuts on Nitro

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

It was also the first MSG Raw.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

There was some overlapping discussion in the Raw and Nitro threads and since quite often the discussion about these MNW episodes is which show we thought was better, that can be hard to do without discussing the other show. So, here we are, a combined MNW thread.

[KCC 0]

Oh man, that lucha 8-man tag from Nitro makes me miss WCW and their cruisers so much.

[Guest]

RAW was great. The McMahon/Austin segment still holds up, just as Cactus Jack vs. HHH still holds up as a **** match.

 

Bret looked totally disinterested in his match against Goldust. Knowing what we know today, I don't blame him.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

There are many things about Tony Schiavone that will always amuse me, and two of them are in the current Nitro episode:

1. The tape machines are rolling! (I will never, ever get tired of this).

2. Constantly calling Hugh Morrus "Humorous".

 

I really liked Nitro. The Rey stuff was good, I enjoyed Hall's promo, the "night of upsets" theme of the show was nice, and Piper called the nWo the "NWA".

[cabbageboy 0]

I have yet to watch Raw but do recall the show from when it was on initially. But I'm glad you brought up that ultra irritating pet peeve of mine, Venkman. I always hated Schiavone calling Hugh Morrus "Humorous." It was so annoying. Otherwise that was a pretty fun show. That Hall/Larry stuff gets stranger as it goes, with Hall eventually cutting shoot promos on him saying he drove the AWA out of business, etc.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

One of the retrospectives shows Hulk Hogan heading out of the dressing room towards the ring to face the Iron Sheik. Look fast to see Vince Sr. standing to the right of the curtain.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

The opening to Raw is incredible. That sure made that seem like a hell of a deal.

 

I like how the Nitro opening segment shows Bischoff - back when he was a VP pretending to be an announcer - taking the powerbomb in an attempt to downplay the rumours that Vince was taking a stunner.

[cabbageboy 0]

Yeah that Raw was a really excellent show with the notable Austin/Vince angle and of course the fun Cactus/HHH match that holds up well with time. Plenty of UT/HBK on it as well. Though I have to admit still wincing at Michaels beating Bulldog in England for the European belt. That was so wrong on so many levels. Would it have killed them to book a massive run in schmozz there, then have HHH beat a hurting Bulldog back in the States? It keeps all the heat on Shawn and Hunter, and doesn't bury Davey Boy in his homeland. Not to mention the whole proto Fingerpoke angle they did with DX and the Euro title anyway.

 

One thing occurred to me while watching that Raw: The Montreal Screwjob had to happen. Watching the Vince/Austin segment I was almost entirely with Vince, since his demands seemed quite reasonable then. It's almost like if they wanted to do a Vince/Austin feud then Vince had to do something to truly seem reprehensible and screwing Bret was the ideal thing. It was also obvious from this Raw that Bret did need to go, since he was the one guy who seemed like he was blatantly phoning it in at that point.