Monday Night Wars

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

That botched Super Rana spot from Jericho/Gedo at Havoc 97 looked incredibly brutal. I had never seen it before.

[garfieldsnose 0]

I think when people say stuff from 1997 doesn't hold up well over time with Nitro and Raw, I think it's simply because we've gotten older and know what goes on. If kids nowadays watched this stuff, they would react in the same way that we did back then. So I don't think it's a matter of the product not holding up over time as it is we just outgrew those storylines and hindsight is 20/20. I still remember the shit I did when I was watching these shows in '97, including thinking Bret Hart was watching me through the window and feeling guilty that I laughed at the midget Bret Hart the night after Survivor Series. Being a kid rules.

[DerangedHermit 0]

One thing that caught my attention during Raw (besides the constant Hogan bashing, which was great, and Rock's t-shirt with the giant "R" on it - did he think he was a member of Team Rocket? I'm too old to be able to make that reference...)

TEAM ROCKET IS BLASTING OFF AGAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIN *ding*

 

[DerangedHermit 0]

Owen Hart's Titantron at this time is quite amazing.

[vond freedom 0]

Just started getting 24/7 and wondered what WWE was doing with Benoit on the old Nitros (as I haven't seen him in the two weeks I've been watching) - just editing out any matches/promos/references?

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Their current policy is no matches and limited screen exposure. He can beat someone up in an angle and appear in the background, but so far any speaking roles have been removed. There are often commentary gaps where I assume they are talking about Benoit, but sometimes that's fine too - I think the gaps are just talking about an upcoming Benoit match that isn't being shown.

[Promoter 0]

Their current policy is no matches and limited screen exposure. He can beat someone up in an angle and appear in the background, but so far any speaking roles have been removed. There are often commentary gaps where I assume they are talking about Benoit, but sometimes that's fine too - I think the gaps are just talking about an upcoming Benoit match that isn't being shown.

 

Really. They are real serious with this policy. I lost my 24/7 channel and when I had it they had reached to around the end of 1996 and early 97. Mentioned above I don't think some of the shows hold up well either and not because we got older. I think it's that some of the substance just lacks. I can watch some old snme shows from the 80's that have more sizzle than these shows(such as the show that had Jake The Snake against Savage and Hogan/Hercules) from LA Sports Arena. At the time I remembered the shows on raw lacking talent depth and nitro having better matches overall, but crappy storylines and characters.

[cabbageboy 0]

Nitro ironically enough got some guys over for the pure reason that they were high quality filler. It was like "Go out there and wrestle for 10 mins. to take up time."

 

Once we get to 1998 on these shows we'll truly know if they hold up or not. Because I didn't think late 1997 Raw shows were that good even at the time, though the Nitros are still solid from that period.

[Diamonddust 0]

Nitro ironically enough got some guys over for the pure reason that they were high quality filler. It was like "Go out there and wrestle for 10 mins. to take up time."

 

Once we get to 1998 on these shows we'll truly know if they hold up or not. Because I didn't think late 1997 Raw shows were that good even at the time, though the Nitros are still solid from that period.

 

Nitro's quality really started to take a downhill turn in 1998 with the advent of Thunder and the juggernaut of Austin and Attitude dominating Raw.

 

WCW really blew it big time when they botched Sting vs. Hogan and didn't know where to go from there. Early 1998 WWE isn't anything to write home about (At least until after Wrestlemania XIV), although we will be getting Austin vs. Tyson here soon.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

So I keep seeing where DX eating the bananas is supposed to be a rib on Jim Cornette, but what's the rib referring to?

 

Apparently a video exists of Cornette sticking a banana up his ass. Not sure of the validity, though.

It's pure fiction. The whole banana thing is based on some rib or something from years ago that Cornette was part of. Somehow, it spawned an urban legend of Cornette pleasuring himself with a banana.

[cabbageboy 0]

The period right before the Rumble in 1998 was mediocre stuff, but once they got past the formality of the Rumble to get Austin as #1 contender, then it took off. Take a look at that WM card and nearly everything on it had a really solid issue or feud.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I went to read the recaps for these shows that I usually read but was disappointed to learn that The Other Arnea TV recap archive section is no longer with us. However, I found this: http://rspw.org/petrie/

[cabbageboy 0]

I have to say that the 11-3-97 Raw is pretty dire stuff. Bret doesn't even show up on it, and I was looking forward to it being his last WWF Raw appearance, but not to be. There wasn't much in the way of decent wrestling on the show, but at least they seemed serious about getting Shamrock over at the time. He got visual tap outs on both Bret and Shawn in back to back weeks.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Poor Double J got bumped to Superstars.

 

"If we had our own network time constraints wouldn't matter!". Ha! It was funny because at first I missed the obvious dig at the fact Nitro has been anywhere from 2.25 to 2.5 hours for several weeks now because and airs on TNT and laughed at it for being a somewhat ironic comment that now, in 2008, I'm actually watching the show on WWE's own network that they plan on using to to air first run TV if network deals ever fall apart.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I will say I enjoyed the Raw episode - the wrestling wasn't good at all but that's basically what we're going to be dealing with for the next 100 episodes or so, so might as well get used to enjoying the shows from a nostalgic point of view. That said, I was greatly disappointed with Bret sitting this one out. I was all set to possibly recap this for F4W as a historic "Bret Hart's last Raw", not realizing his actual last Raw was the visual tapout loss to Ken Shamrock the week before. I thought the pacing was a bit off too (but that might have been due to the time constraint issues Vince and JR brought up) with I believe 3 non-wrestling segments in a row followed by short matches.

 

Thing I enjoyed:

 

- Super "Crazy" Loco blowing two spots in a rather big way. It was an ok match outside of that, but a lot of flips with no substance. I also was excited about the prospect of eventually seeing Jerry Lynn as a one-shot jobber, but I was 99% sure he was never actually in the tournament. Some quick research revealed he gets replaced by Scott Taylor. I also like that Aguila used what would become Steve Blackman's first theme. Speaking of...

 

- Steve Blackman! Crazed fan from the stands!

 

- JR constantly mentioning that Goldust raped Marlena (of her dignity).

 

- DX antics.

 

- I kid you not, I laughed for a solid 40-60 seconds when Tito Santana spun around and morphed into El Matador for the Karate Fighters tournament.

[cabbageboy 0]

In retrospect there's some fun on these late 97 Raw shows but at the time you could tell something was just...wrong. I didn't even follow wrestling on the net until the Montreal Screwjob, but even before that things just didn't seem right at all in the WWF.

[bob_barron 0]

Is this the episode where HBK got Shamrock to call everything on camera?

[Boner Kawanger 0]

I thought that was the PPV match.

[Enigma 0]

Yeah, it was the DX PPV where Shamrock was calling spots wayyyy loud.

[Diamonddust 0]

In retrospect there's some fun on these late 97 Raw shows but at the time you could tell something was just...wrong. I didn't even follow wrestling on the net until the Montreal Screwjob, but even before that things just didn't seem right at all in the WWF.

 

In retrospect, you can definitely see the "ground being prepared for war."

[Enigma 0]

WWF Raw -- 11/3/1997

 

-- Mr. Aguila vs. Super Loco

 

-- Ahmed Johnson vs. Kane

 

-- Marc Mero vs. Savio Vega

 

-- British Bulldog vs. Vader in a Dog Collar Match

 

-- New Age Outlaws vs. Los Boriquas

 

-- Shawn Michaels vs. Ken Shamrock

 

WCW Nitro -- 11/3/1997

 

-- Rey Mysterio, Jr. & Steven Regal vs. Eddie Guerrero & Dean Malenko

 

-- Fit Finlay vs. David Taylor

 

-- Psicosis vs. Yuji Nagata

 

-- Perry Saturn vs. Disco Inferno for the WCW Television Title

 

-- Scott Hall vs. Chris Jericho

 

-- Luchador Battle Royal

 

-- Ric Flair vs. Alex Wright

 

-- Steve McMichael vs. Ray Traylor

 

-- The Steiner Brothers vs. Public Enemy in a Philadelphia Street Fight

 

-- Lex Luger vs. Curt Hennig

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I think it was really Ahmed Johnson vs. Steve Austin, but the world just wasn't ready for that. Kane saved us all.

[KingPK 0]

After watching these RAWs, it was pretty obvious that the only people that were over in the whole company at that time were Austin, Sable, Sunny and Shawn (mostly with the girls). Even DX wasn't really getting much of a reaction at the start.

[Enigma 0]

As a mark, the first DX confused me because they never explained why HBK was all of a sudden best friends with Triple H.

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

After watching these RAWs, it was pretty obvious that the only people that were over in the whole company at that time were Austin, Sable, Sunny and Shawn (mostly with the girls).

 

The Undertaker?

[cabbageboy 0]

I recall that Jarrett interview that they mentioned on this Raw. He called HHH nothing but a tag along who was leeching off of HBK's heat. Surreal stuff for back then. Now it's a typical TNA show, haha.

 

In reality the WWF basically was just phoning the rest of the year in and then obviously went with Austin winning the Rumble, brought in Tyson for WM, and the rest is history.

[bob_barron 0]

Does anyone know why The Hart Foundation weren't on RAW?

[cabbageboy 0]

I wondered about that too, but Bulldog was on the show against Vader. It was really just Bret that didn't show up, since Owen and Anvil did a run in. Some of this could have been that the show was simply taped that week and they had little else for the Harts to do, or it also could have been the obvious backstage nightmare with Bret and Vince that led to their reduced role.

 

I had forgotten how badly this Survivor Series card had been hyped. The only things on the show that had any real build at all are Bret/Shawn and maybe Kane/Mankind. The rest is filler.

[Ed Wood Caulfield 0]

In retrospect there's some fun on these late 97 Raw shows but at the time you could tell something was just...wrong. I didn't even follow wrestling on the net until the Montreal Screwjob, but even before that things just didn't seem right at all in the WWF.

 

Yeah, there's a dark cloud over everything during this time period, starting from after SummerSlam. Survivor Series was a very depressing show even before the Screwjob. There was a feeling of "Something is going to go wrong, isn't it?" all throughout that night.

[Diamonddust 0]

In retrospect there's some fun on these late 97 Raw shows but at the time you could tell something was just...wrong. I didn't even follow wrestling on the net until the Montreal Screwjob, but even before that things just didn't seem right at all in the WWF.

 

Yeah, there's a dark cloud over everything during this time period, starting from after SummerSlam. Survivor Series was a very depressing show even before the Screwjob. There was a feeling of "Something is going to go wrong, isn't it?" all throughout that night.

 

As it's been said before, one of the most telling signs something was up was when Shawn Michaels won the European Title.