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DrVenkman PhD

Legends Programming

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I feel bad for Tazz, no one listens to him.

 

In the new roundtable, JR mentions how The Oddities sucked, after mentioning the No Limit Soldiers, so Tazz says "at least the Oddities were entertaining" and everyone keeps thinking Tazz said that about the NLS and they keep cutting him off.

 

Tazz had been sadly out of place on these roundtables. Having him on the territory one and not having Lawler or even Mike Graham was absolutely ridiculous, and I like Tazz a lot.

 

Yeah, Tazz hasn't belong on these last few ones. Territory one should have had Pattereson, Hayes, Dusty, Lawler, and Graham.

 

247/ has actually posted a July 1973 NWA title match with Harley Race up in Stampede Wrestling. Race's first reign lasted just under two months so it's pretty rare footage to have on tape. Stampede has had some gemes before. For Gorilla Monsoon's HOF profile, they showed him intelligent heel Gino Morella in 1960. That was pretty cool footage.

 

You know, there might just be enough Harley Race match footage out there to make an awesome DVD after all.

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The problem with Kiniski is they blew the spot at the end. He had to get involved because the former champ usually needed some sort of out or controversy. As a referee, well, he was a much greater wrestler.

 

The blown spot at the end isn't the spot that bothers me in the context of that match. Especially at the time, with kayfabe strong, this stands out to me.

 

There's a moment where Race is on offense and Flair is in the corner and Kiniski tries to get Race off by holding his arms back, essentially giving Flair a free hit and looking extremely partisan. I'm surprised people didn't have a fit for that back then.

 

Dames

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I feel bad for Tazz, no one listens to him.

 

In the new roundtable, JR mentions how The Oddities sucked, after mentioning the No Limit Soldiers, so Tazz says "at least the Oddities were entertaining" and everyone keeps thinking Tazz said that about the NLS and they keep cutting him off.

 

Tazz had been sadly out of place on these roundtables. Having him on the territory one and not having Lawler or even Mike Graham was absolutely ridiculous, and I like Tazz a lot.

 

 

The Thing I like about Tazz is that he's about 20 years younger than most of the panel, so he brings more of a fans perspective to these round tables.

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The roundtable's are my favorite segment and the highlight of The Factions discusssion was Ric Flair's commentary. The standout was Flair gloating over Shane Douglas working at Wal-Mart. I don't know if its true but I would hate to think Douglas has fallen on such hard times.

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Oh man, Dean Douglas actually became a teacher?! Awesome.

 

I enjoyed the latest roundtable. I'm glad Tazz attempted to defend the Oddities, as I found them (and their awesome entrance) to be a fun time-waster.

 

I never thought I'd say this, but I kinda missed Hayes. I realized watching this show that he adds more to the discussion than I had previously noticed.

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Oh man, Dean Douglas actually became a teacher?! Awesome.

 

I enjoyed the latest roundtable. I'm glad Tazz attempted to defend the Oddities, as I found them (and their awesome entrance) to be a fun time-waster.

 

I never thought I'd say this, but I kinda missed Hayes. I realized watching this show that he adds more to the discussion than I had previously noticed.

 

Hayes is a great storyteller, but he's also a great bullshitter. Can you imagine him and Flair trying to talk over each other while bringing up war stories about the Birds and Horsemen?

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Oh man, Dean Douglas actually became a teacher?! Awesome.

 

I enjoyed the latest roundtable. I'm glad Tazz attempted to defend the Oddities, as I found them (and their awesome entrance) to be a fun time-waster.

 

I never thought I'd say this, but I kinda missed Hayes. I realized watching this show that he adds more to the discussion than I had previously noticed.

 

If I recall correctly, Shane Douglas actually was a teacher during his years in ECW. That's how the WWE came up with the whole Dean Douglas angle.

 

Flair's the last one to talk about someone having financial/economic problems. With the way he spends money, it probably won't be long until he's wrestling in front of 400 people in a gym.

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There's no episode list on Wikipedia, but there is some information on the panels. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWE_24/7#Legends_of_Wrestling

 

From the top of my head...

 

Legends of WrestleMania

Badasses

Territories

Heatseekers

Worst Characters

And the upcoming Greatest Factions

 

 

Wasn't there one recently was that split b/w Flair and Slaughter? Apparently it's a repeat, but for the life of me I can't recall if I've seen it.

 

Is the Factions one a repeat? My gut tells me it is for some reason.

 

I know I've seen Badasses, Territories, Worst Characters, I think Heatseekers, and I skipped Wrestlemania b/c I heard it was pretty pointless.

 

Edited to add: There was a Monday Night Wars one and a Greatest Rivalries one.

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Well Flair actually left before Foley, right?

 

I don't know how far in advance they tape the Roundtables but it may actually exceed the 3 month production timetable of everything else (or is right in line with it).

 

Funny how that works out as "Forever Flair" happens after Flair leaves and now the promos for October have some focus on Mick Foley's baseball bat.

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So, I guess Gene is now the host and JR is just a panelist now?

 

I see this show also has the "Classics" branding but does not have the odd VQ that Survivor Series 92 has, so maybe (hopefully) that was just a fluke of some sort.

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Well Flair actually left before Foley, right?

 

I don't know how far in advance they tape the Roundtables but it may actually exceed the 3 month production timetable of everything else (or is right in line with it).

 

Funny how that works out as "Forever Flair" happens after Flair leaves and now the promos for October have some focus on Mick Foley's baseball bat.

 

They taped this one a few months ago. I remember a thread or comments being made about a report in regards to the taping. Apparently, there was a heated argument from Flair when the NWO was discussed. I don't know how much was edited and how much was blown out of proportion.

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These roundtables always leave me disapointed because when they end I feel like they could have gone so much more in depth, everything seems rushed and guys are always getting cut off. I can't believe there was no mention of the dangerous alliance either

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These roundtables always leave me disapointed because when they end I feel like they could have gone so much more in depth, everything seems rushed and guys are always getting cut off. I can't believe there was no mention of the dangerous alliance either

 

Yeah, I thought that was a problem. There's some good stuff here but they don't stay focused on any one particular faction for long. Maybe it is the editing. JR said they shot about three hours of footage and it was edited down to a little over one hour. I would have loved to have seen this in three one-hour episodes.

 

There's definitely some good stuff though...

 

-While there is absolutely no arguing the success of the NWO and their impact on the business, I found myself agreeing with a lot of what he said. While the Horsemen made everyone look good while the NWO spent two years beating up everyone and making them look bad. It was egos run amok and ultimately the "me-me-me" attitude was a major factor in the fall of WCW. Too many guys had creative control and the inmates ended up running the asylum. Hogan was as successful as anyone and he couldn't stop playing politics.

 

But at the same time, Flair knows better than anyone that wrestling is indeed a "me-me-me" business. There are no guarenteed contracts and guys have to do what they can to stay on top. Flair should know about this. The WWE wanted him to work as a goodwill ambassador after they gave him a great send-off but Flair opted to move away from contract security and go for the quick cash on the independant circuit.

 

-Tazz's bringing up the Triple Threat. We see footage of Shane Douglas, Chris Candido, and Bam Bam Bigelow. But ECW fans know that the original Triple Threat was Douglas, Chris Benoit, and Dean Malenko.

 

-Tazz also brings up the Varsity Club, which was a good choice and everyone seemed to like that group. I think JR would be a part of that faction today.

 

-Foley brings up the Union. I was wondering if they would acknowledge it. There was something very funny about seeing McMahon walking to the ring with a 2X4. I had forgotten he was a part of that group.

 

-JR hated The Spirit Squad but Flair and Foley liked them.

 

-Speaking of Flair and Foley, it's something that those two aren't with the company anymore. Neither is the Rock. Not too many Attitude Era guys left although Flair never counted as one.

 

-Bleeping out the language really annoys me.

 

-I usually think of the Freebirds as more of a tag team but they were an excellent choice as a top faction. The Freebirds and the Hart Foundation didn't get enough time.

 

-Mean Gene is getting up there in years. He was stumbling all over the place in the beginning.

 

-My choice for worst faction...The Paul Jones Army.

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Guest

The Paul Jones Army is a stable, like the Heenan Family. I don't think they qualify. But yeah, the Paul Jones Army sucks.

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Stable. You're right.

 

What about when they mentioned the Brood and made no mention of Christian?

 

They made one quick note of Christian, and that as it. The Brood was used as an example of showing how an alliance can be started to feature one guy (In this instance, Gangrel), but it turns out one of the secondary players (Edge) becomes the mega-star.

 

For a while, I didn't even think they'd cover The Freebirds, but I'm glad they did at the end. They were one of the ultimate factions and one of the more influential ones as well.

 

I also can't believe the Dangerous Alliance wasn't brought up, especially since that was Steve Austin's first shot at being in a major faction.

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Stable. You're right.

 

What about when they mentioned the Brood and made no mention of Christian?

 

They made one quick note of Christian, and that as it. The Brood was used as an example of showing how an alliance can be started to feature one guy (In this instance, Gangrel), but it turns out one of the secondary players (Edge) becomes the mega-star.

 

For a while, I didn't even think they'd cover The Freebirds, but I'm glad they did at the end. They were one of the ultimate factions and one of the more influential ones as well.

 

I also can't believe the Dangerous Alliance wasn't brought up, especially since that was Steve Austin's first shot at being in a major faction.

 

The Dangerous Alliance was completely overlooked. JR and Foley would have been the likely ones to bring them up. Maybe it was on the two hours that didn't make it to 24/7.

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Just watched the Race/Von Erich match and I highly recommend it. Stiff (they sounded like they were really tagging each other), bloody, and fast-paced, it was a very entertaining match that took place in Texas Stadium. Watching all these DVDs and 24/7 has made me a big Harley Race fan.

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Yeah and I must say the Race/Flair match from Aug. 1983 is great stuff, far better than the Starrcade match. The post match angle with Orton and Slater is terrific as well.

 

I don't get why they edit these Legends shows. If the taping was 3 hours long, why not just show it all or break it into various shows throughout the month?

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That's what I say. Just have the segment in three parts with a new part every week.

 

Agreed on Flair/Race. It was a great match and it shows you what they can do when they don't have a referee interferring and breaking the momentum of the match. It's interesting to see Flair in the dominant face role with Race bumping like crazy for him.

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I'll second the recommendation on Von Erich/Race. Nice brawl, sad to see what Kerry was at his best in 1982 compared to what he eventually became.

 

Orton's heel turn there is one of the overlooked great ones. The crowd cheers his arrival, and nearly turns dead silent when he lays into Flair before booing.

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I didn't actually know that Orton was a face before that heel turn on Flair. So I guess that turn was the beginning of a long career as a toady for Bob Jr.

 

Having now seen the Legends show about Factions I have to say that Flair really seems to have sour grapes about the NWO. What he said is largely correct, but it's not like WCW couldn't have done something good after the NWO ran its course...they just didn't have a clue. By sour grapes here's what I mean: Flair seems bitter at the fact that the NWO, unlike the Horsemen, actually drove WCW to the #1 spot in the industry for a while. And to be honest, what does Flair think Vince would have done with the Horsemen that would have been so much better than Crockett? The Horsemen would have been heel fodder for Hogan, Warrior, Savage, etc. Arn and Tully might have won the tag belts but they did that anyway in 1989.

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I didn't actually know that Orton was a face before that heel turn on Flair. So I guess that turn was the beginning of a long career as a toady for Bob Jr.

 

Having now seen the Legends show about Factions I have to say that Flair really seems to have sour grapes about the NWO. What he said is largely correct, but it's not like WCW couldn't have done something good after the NWO ran its course...they just didn't have a clue. By sour grapes here's what I mean: Flair seems bitter at the fact that the NWO, unlike the Horsemen, actually drove WCW to the #1 spot in the industry for a while. And to be honest, what does Flair think Vince would have done with the Horsemen that would have been so much better than Crockett? The Horsemen would have been heel fodder for Hogan, Warrior, Savage, etc. Arn and Tully might have won the tag belts but they did that anyway in 1989.

 

I think there's a lot of bitterness there on Flair's part. While his criticism's of the NWO are quite valid, the fact of the matter was that the NWO revitalized the entire industry and ushered in a lot of success and money in the business. The Horsemen weren't able to top the WWF but the NWO were. Before the NWO, Nitro was running neck-and-neck with Raw. After the NWO, Nitro dominated Raw for almost two years in the ratings. Flair was on the shelf during a lot of that time. The NWO was great for WCW and then it was bad for WCW. But it also is the reason the WWE is a billion-dollar global company and why they bought up all these tape libraries so he can release a DVD.

 

I think Vince could have done a lot with the Horsemen but at the same time, the WWF wasn't the kind of company that catered to heels and Flair's racier interviews weren't exactly family-friendly. Even some of the roundtable panel seemed to dispute Flair on the "Vince money" comment.

 

Interesting bit...Foley makes reference to the two WCCW DVDs, including the independently released one.

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The overwhelming irony of Flair's comments about the NWO is that the Horsemen getting ultra stale and the backstage politics of the late 80s NWA were factors in wrecking Crockett much like what happened to WCW years later. Flair mentioned that he and the Horsemen rarely even won a match during that era....but I notice they sure held the belts a lot. Hell, what did Hogan really win during the NWO era? Piper kicked his ass repeatedly. Luger got a brief win. Sting got his (crappy) title wins. Goldberg waxed Hogan's ass clean. And I also take issue with the notion that the NWO never got anyone over. Goldberg became a major star during that period, Sting was at the peak of his popularity, DDP became a major player, Luger's career was rejuvenated for a while, etc.

 

Seriously, watch an NWA show from 1986-88 and then watch a WCW show from 1996-98 and you'll notice booking that is eerily similar. Heels dominating all the time, faces that never get a break, heels that get titles returned to them on technicalities and bullshit.

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