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The Ghost of bps21

TSM Profile: Samoa Joe

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This a company who’s World Campion, was walking around an arena for an hour in his underwear looking for his clothes. This is a company where the World Champion staged a vowel renewal ceromony for him and his wife, but his lackey accidentally married his wife, during a renewal ceromony. This is a company where a triple crown Champion, has been the lackey for a guy who was a midcarder in WWE, left that guy and became a lackey for a guy who was an upper midcarder in WWE. This is a company who refuses to push their 2 most over tag teams, because one team didn't want to blade and the other is Mexican. This is a company that dedicated 2 hours of a show, to creat a parody gimmick of Steve Austin. This is a company that took a guy who was on the verge of being their top face in Tomko, and had him turn on Christian and become a lackey for Angle. Tomko is now involved in a feud with 2 guys who were feuding with monsters 2 weeks ago. He (and the aforementioned Triple Crown winner) lost their tag titles to a super hero. The commissioner of the company stripped the Super Hero and his partner of the titles, because the super hero wouldn't unmask. The commissioner spent the whole show saying how stupid this whole situation was, but he stripped the super hero and his partner anyway because of outside interference, when in fact there was no outside inference, and even the commissioner spent 1 hour saying it wasn’t any outside inference.

 

Lethal has beat Kurt Angle (the top guy in TNA) cleanly. Than went on to defeat and save the X Division from "The best Tag team of the decade” in 3D. He beat them, while being outweighed by 100 pounds by both guys, in an anything goes environment, and they had a third guy with them at that. That is enough credential to build on, if you want to make a guy seem like a legit threat to the TNA title. Lethal should be seen as a top player in TNA. It shouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for him to one day be the champ in the company, if it was booked with any common sense. This is TNA though; they screwed up a goldmine in Joe, Abyss, Booker and Sting. So why would I even think they'll give Lethal a shot? Oh, thats right, I don't think they'll give Lethal shot. Like I said from the beginning in a perfect world Lethal is one of 3 guys that I'd like see get pushed as legit title contenders. All 3 have tons of potential and could be huge stars, but the people who book them are imbeciles The company is run by idiots, anything they do remotely right, they make sure they fuck it up a week later

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Thing is, of the guys mentioned there how many of them are really gold mines or had any serious potential to be such? Abyss is good at what he does, but a casual fan looks at him and sees a ripoff of Kane or Mankind. Sting is at the tail end of his career and hasn't drawn any real money in 10 years, so why exactly is he a gold mine? It's not even a knock against him, in fact Sting's TNA work has been his best post 1996 work in my view, but he's well past the stage where he can seriously draw money. And Booker? The guy was buried so many times in WWE that there is no real chance he could draw money for TNA as a main event guy.

 

But yeah, they have sorta screwed up Joe. It's not too late to fix it, and I think they are on their way to attempting to fix it, but we'll see.

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Austin, Jericho, Benoit, Eddie, Dustin, Foley, and Rey Mysterio, weren't setting the world on fire as WCW micard acts. Once WWE got a hold of them they all became legit stars, and spent time (excluding Dustin) in the main event scene at one time. They all were always fine wokers, and just needed a little push from a competent management team. Nobody in TNA is a draw, but maybe, just maybe, IF TNA booking teams wasn't run by retarded monkeys they could, you know, make some draws. Sting has history, he is a legend. The fact that TNA hasn't done anything good with him since the Jarrett feud is disgraceful. Booker T could've easily made an impact, if he was booked properly. Abyss should've been one of the biggest faces in the company, after he retuned from the Coalition beat down. TNA has fumbled with all these guys, and they indeed had a goldmine with them, but they don't know what the fuck they're doing. The fact that you downplay the value of Sting and Booker, and agree with me on Joe is pretty laughable, being as he is the one of the most generic guys in TNA, and wrestling for that matter.

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Austin, Jericho, Benoit, Eddie, Dustin, Foley, and Rey Mysterio, weren't setting the world on fire as WCW micard acts. Once WWE got a hold of them they all became legit stars, and spent time (excluding Dustin) in the main event scene at one time. They all were always fine wokers, and just needed a little push from a competent management team. Nobody in TNA is a draw, but maybe, just maybe, IF TNA booking teams wasn't run by retarded monkeys they could, you know, make some draws. Sting has history, he is a legend. The fact that TNA hasn't done anything good with him since the Jarrett feud is disgraceful. Booker T could've easily made an impact, if he was booked properly. Abyss should've been one of the biggest faces in the company, after he retuned from the Coalition beat down. TNA has fumbled with all these guys, and they indeed had a goldmine with them, but they don't know what the fuck they're doing. The fact that you downplay the value of Sting and Booker, and agree with me on Joe is pretty laughable, being as he is the one of the most generic guys in TNA, and wrestling for that matter.

 

I've agreed with a few things you've said and disagreed with a lot of things. I won't go into them because you're an argumentative fucker and I don't think a pre-deterimined sport requires this much argument.

 

But that last sentance is pretty false. Joe is pretty far from generic.

 

Why do you think he got over huge in TNA? Or anywhere else for that matter? Because he was a big guy that could do all of that X Division shit that all of the smaller guys we're doing. It's incerdibly impressive to see a man his size move as quick as he does.

 

Joe is generic? Please, DH Smith is generic, Cody Rhodes is generic, Samoa Joe is not generic.

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Maybe I was wrong for saying Joe is the most generic in wrestling. I should’ve said as far as top players in wrestling, he’s the most generic. He is a guy who wears his tights up to his nipple, and the name Samoa Joe sounds like a traveling job guy from the 80’s. As far as why did Joe get over huge in TNA? Well 1st and farmost. Everybody in the impact zone gets over; it’s a fee show on national TV. So why wouldn’t they cheer everything they see? But Joe was over the day he walked in to TNA, because people knew him from ROH. All TNA had to do is be competent with him, and people would buy Joe, which is exactly what TNA did in the beginning. Than the booking teamed started getting their on ideas, which is always a bad idea. All things considered though, Joe is still kind of generic

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I agree with Truthiness on just about everything, but I also disagree regarding Joe. Doesn't make TNA management any less a bunca retarded monkeys but Joe COULD be a big deal if they had kept him on the same track as he was his first year.

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Maybe I was wrong for saying Joe is the most generic in wrestling. I should’ve said as far as top players in wrestling, he’s the most generic. He is a guy who wears his tights up to his nipple, and the name Samoa Joe sounds like a traveling job guy from the 80’s. As far as why did Joe get over huge in TNA? Well 1st and farmost. Everybody in the impact zone gets over; it’s a fee show on national TV. So why wouldn’t they cheer everything they see? But Joe was over the day he walked in to TNA, because people knew him from ROH. All TNA had to do is be competent with him, and people would buy Joe, which is exactly what TNA did in the beginning. Than the booking teamed started getting their on ideas, which is always a bad idea. All things considered though, Joe is still kind of generic

 

Booking and getting over because he was in ROH aside, Joe is still pretty far from generic because he has something new to offer. Maybe it's not new to ROH fans but to the general fan, it is.

 

And if we're talking "main eventers" who are generic, then look no further than the E. Cena is pretty generic, HHH has been pretty much the same character for nearly a decade and Randy Orton is generic heel #101.

 

Now I don't want this to become a TNA vs WWE discussion because it's pointless, the E is techinacally a better company. Consistant PPVs, sell out shows, top rating TV shows etc etc. But to say that Joe is generic just because you're not a fan of the way TNA is booked is pretty lame.

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I don't know if I would call Cena or Orton "generic". To me, "generic" indicates run-of-the-mill or nothing special. Cena/Orton may have a lot of classic face/heel characteristics about them, but they're very, very good at portraying their characters. They're easily the best face and heel in pro wrestling right now.

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Maybe I was wrong for saying Joe is the most generic in wrestling. I should’ve said as far as top players in wrestling, he’s the most generic. He is a guy who wears his tights up to his nipple, and the name Samoa Joe sounds like a traveling job guy from the 80’s. As far as why did Joe get over huge in TNA? Well 1st and farmost. Everybody in the impact zone gets over; it’s a fee show on national TV. So why wouldn’t they cheer everything they see? But Joe was over the day he walked in to TNA, because people knew him from ROH. All TNA had to do is be competent with him, and people would buy Joe, which is exactly what TNA did in the beginning. Than the booking teamed started getting their on ideas, which is always a bad idea. All things considered though, Joe is still kind of generic

 

Booking and getting over because he was in ROH aside, Joe is still pretty far from generic because he has something new to offer. Maybe it's not new to ROH fans but to the general fan, it is.

 

And if we're talking "main eventers" who are generic, then look no further than the E. Cena is pretty generic, HHH has been pretty much the same character for nearly a decade and Randy Orton is generic heel #101.

 

Now I don't want this to become a TNA vs WWE discussion because it's pointless, the E is techinacally a better company. Consistant PPVs, sell out shows, top rating TV shows etc etc. But to say that Joe is generic just because you're not a fan of the way TNA is booked is pretty lame.

What exactly does Joe offer that is new? He kicks hard? His fire pro/Kings Roads offense? His Indy 101 wrestling gear? Does the name, Samoa Joe scream star to you? What exactly does Joe offer? Let's not go overboard with the Joe love. He's good, but he isn't that good. When it comes to superstars Joe is the blandest out of most of them. Yeah, he's been a victim of bad booking, but before he became a victim of bad booking, he was generic and just like every other hot Indy star from the class of 2004. At least Punk, Aries, Danielson, Hero, and Nigel freshened up their characters as the time past. Joe is the same Joe he was in 2004. Joe is like a Caw, hell everybody in TNA is like a Caw.

 

You can throw a lot of insults at Cena and Orton, but there is nothing generic about them. Like them or not they both are different from the typical face and heel WWE has pushed over the last 11 years. Cena is something new, his act is something new. It might be stale to some, but it's not the typical face WWE has had over the years. He is a straight up good guy, that hasn't been in WWE since Bret Hart. Orton is a dominant heel, and a fighting champion, that is something else we haven't seen in WWE since heel HHH. He doesn't run with a clique, and he has carried his own weight as Champion. He is not the typical wrestling heel. If you want to see a generic heel, look no further than the top heels in Orlando. Angle is playing the same character HHH played from 2002-2005. Yeah he added a little MMA act to it, but he's still the same character Triple H was during his heel run in the early 2000's. AJ Style is the idiot comedy character Christian was before he got the Captain Charisma gimmick. Tomko is like early Batista, when he was with Evolution. Robert Roode is like a hybrid of Triple H/JBL, but he somehow makes it work. 3D is, well they are the same guys they were in 2000. I could go on, but I think you get the picture. Nothing is fresh in TNA, but the ring, the idiot announce team, the stupidity of the booking (they seem to get dumber every week, which is pretty impressive and fresh), and a competent women's division, which they are about to fuck up, as expected.

 

Comparing Cena and Orton to anybody in TNA is hilarious for all the wrong reasons

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I may have been overboard with my claims that Cena and Orton are generic, that I will conceded, maybe I should expand:

 

Cena is the very typical "root for the good guy" face, as you said it is pretty stale and he could do with a freshing up of character. He's pretty generic in ring and his promos are corny. But that's the character that he is and credit where credit is due, he does it very well.

 

Orton is the "I'm the best wrestler in the world and I'm not afraid of anyone" heel. He offers nothing new. But his promos are good and he can usually do well in the ring. My main complaint with Orton so far as champ is that he's been booked as lucky more than anything. But again, credit where credit is due, he does it very well.

 

I really don't see what you can't see in Joe. If Umaga or any of the other big guys pulled out the shit that Joe does then fair enough. But they don't. Wether that's the E's limitations on big guys or whatever is not the point. The fact that Joe does do this stuff is awesome.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I don't think Joe has been amazing since he left the X division. In fact I think he's gotten worse, because the smaller guys cater to Joe's strong points. I've said on several occasions that Joe hasn't had a 5 star match since he moved into the heavyweights. Maybe some fours, but never fives. I'm not a guy who will argue that Joe is the best wrestler on the planet because he isn't. But to say he is generic is wrong.

 

You know what's hillarious for all the wrong reasons? This:

 

and a competent women's division, which they are about to fuck up, as expected.

 

It's a typical smark comment that one booking mistake means the whole division is ruined. So they added a head shaving angle to the division, big deal. It'll be over soon and they'll move onto something else. Do I like it? Hell no, I think it's stupid. But to say that "the whole division is fucked up" because of one angle is beyond retarded. Now if they keep doing shit angles like this, then yes the division is in for a downfall, but untill then let's not jump the gun shall we?

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really don't see what you can't see in Joe. If Umaga or any of the other big guys pulled out the shit that Joe does then fair enough. But they don't. Wether that's the E's limitations on big guys or whatever is not the point. The fact that Joe does do this stuff is awesome.
Umaga is better than Joe, He doesn't need a big move set to be better than Joe, the four moves he does is more impressive than Joe's whole offense. We don't even have to compare the characters, because in that department Umaga wins easily.

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I wasn't either, I needed to think of a big guy and he was the first one that popped into my head.

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Yeah, that's the same as everyone wanting black wrestlers to be in a program together, whether its fueding with each other, teaming together or managing each other.

 

NOD was 10 years ago, man. Sticking all the negroes together doesn't work now, sorry.

 

 

Also, the truthiness has been on point in this thread. I'm impressed.

 

I didn't even know who Jay Lethal was until he started the Black Machismo gimmick.

 

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I wasn't either, I needed to think of a big guy and he was the first one that popped into my head.

 

Fixed. Don't deny it.

 

Fixed again.

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Yeah, that's the same as everyone wanting black wrestlers to be in a program together, whether its fueding with each other, teaming together or managing each other.

If by "everyone" you mean "most of the bookers at the indy shows Jingus used to work", then you are completely correct sir. If there were two black guys in the company, it was almost guaranteed that they'd either be stuck in a team or feuding.

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