Curt Schilling: Hall of Fame?

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

This is the debate question on ESPN.com today.

 

Schilling has 216 career wins. I drew up a list of pitchers totaling between 206 and 226 career wins, that's ten on either side. The top ten in terms of ERA +:

 

1. Pedro Martinez - First Ballot HOFer when he retires, even if that occurred today. Greatest prime pitcher ever.

2. Hal Newhouser - Three year run saw him compile an 80-27 record, though the first two were war seasons. Inducted in 1992.

3. Curt Schilling

4. Kevin Brown - Underrated '90s pitcher, for five years as dominant as any pitcher in the game. Unlikely to be inducted. Perhaps hurt by 0-3 World Series record?

5. John Smoltz - Also spent three years as great closer.

6. Stan Coveleski - Five 20 win seasons, went 3-0 in the 1920 World Series. Inducted in 1969.

7. Bob Caruthers - Not in the Hall despite a 218-99 career mark. Spent his career in the American Association in the 1880s, a different world pitching wise.

8. Eddie Cicotte - Consensus seems to indicate Hall of Famer if not for the Black Sox scandal.

9. Don Drysdale - Numbers don't match reputation, but did win three World Series. Inducted in 1984.

10. Carl Mays - Fatally beaned Ray Chapman. A more popular pitcher with his numbers would be in, but Mays was not liked by his peers.

 

To get in the Hall with low win totals, you have to demonstrate that you are otherwise extraordinary. Among pitchers of his win totals, Schilling shines in his other stats, comparable to guys already in the Hall. The interesting comparison is Kevin Brown, with remarkably similar career totals. The postseason marks probably change things a bit on that end.

 

I think Schilling's in.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

I say yes. Arguably the most dominant pitcher in the NL at one time or another during the 90's, good numbers, and a three rings.

[Smartly Pretty 0]

I say yes, if only because of how great he is in the post season. Four post season complete games, 2.23 ERA, 11-2 record. He's in.

[Bored 0]

He's in and it will be the longest, most self pretentious speech in Hall of Fame history.

[nl5xsk1 0]

I think Jayson Stark made a good argument of why Schilling should be included; if you compare him to other pitchers of his era, he was definitely among the best. I went from being on the fence about it to being convinced. So while I think he's a clown, I think he's a HOF-caliber player as well.

 

I also think his induction speech would last about eleven-teen hours and include the word "I" so often that no one else would be allowed to use it for 3 days.

[alfdogg 0]

Unless he's one of the guys who has been named in the performance-enhancing stuff (not saying I would hold that against him), I can't possibly see what would keep him out.

[Guest !!!]

Schilling basically seems to be Jack Morris: long career, over 200 wins, numerous All-Star Game and World Series appearances, some absolutely amazing postseason performances, and kind of a horse's ass. Jack Morris isn't in. I know I'll get my explosion-prone head chewed off because of our lovely situation wherein half of this message board roots for the Boston Red Sox, but I'm just shy of giving Schilling the thumbs-up.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Schilling basically seems to be Jack Morris: long career, over 200 wins, numerous All-Star Game and World Series appearances, some absolutely amazing postseason performances, and kind of a horse's ass. Jack Morris isn't in. I know I'll get my explosion-prone head chewed off because of our lovely situation wherein half of this message board roots for the Boston Red Sox, but I'm just shy of giving Schilling the thumbs-up.

Curt Schilling: 3.46 ERA, 127 ERA+

Jack Morris: 3.90 ERA, 105 ERA+

 

There really is a clear difference in their performances over their careers. I'll elaborate later if you like, but I think that speaks for itself.

[Hawk 34 0]

The most important thing that Czech touched on was that he is an ass. Many of these writers/voters are historically bitter about anyone that openly ridicules them to the extent that Schilling does and will continue over the next five years. He'll be in but he probably doesn't make it in the first time around.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

What did he do to be a horse's ass(in any regard, not just a prick to the media)?

 

I remember him kind of pissing and moaning over the questioned legitimacy of the bloody sock, but did that crying taint his career rep? I'm a pretty casual baseball fan, so it's possible a few things fell through the cracks....

[KingPK 0]

He's just been one of those "outspoken" kinds of guys that'll give you his opinion on things even when you don't ask for it. But when has that really mattered in HOF discussions? Ted Williams was a prick to the fans and media and that didn't matter (of course, he was the greatest hitter to ever walk the Earth, so maybe he's not the best example here).

[PUT THAT DICK IN MY MOUTH! 0]

What did he do to be a horse's ass(in any regard, not just a prick to the media)?

 

Openly flaunted his support for George W. Bush in 2004.

[CanadianChris 0]

What did he do to be a horse's ass(in any regard, not just a prick to the media)?

 

Openly flaunted his support for George W. Bush in 2004.

Yeah, because Lord knows we don't want anyone famous taking a position on anything.

[bobobrazil1984 0]

The most important thing about Schilling is that he is a huge WoW nerd who plays in my guild (though to be fair it's a huge frikken guild, so its not like i interact with him yet)

[TheDevilAndGodAreRagingInsideMe 0]

He is a complete horse's ass. But the media doesn't hate him, or really show him in a negative light like they do with other athletes. They slob Schilling's knob constantly, especially since Game 6 of the 2004 ALCS. I don't think there is any doubt that he'll get in first ballot. The moron writers hold it against alot of guys who don't have 300 wins as an excuse to not vote for them, but Schilling will be one of the guys they give a pass to on that.

 

I hate his fuckin' guts. But he'll be there.

 

Edit: He's also a poster at the NYYFans forum. Douchebag.

[CanadianChris 0]

The moron writers hold it against alot of guys who don't have 300 wins as an excuse to not vote for them, but Schilling will be one of the guys they give a pass to on that.

They're going to have to give a pass to almost every pitcher who comes up for election nowadays, because hardly anyone is going to have 300 wins going forward. It 's incredibly hard to do in the current pitching climate. Hell, Pedro's still 7 wins behind Schilling, and he's first-ballot.

 

I'm interested to see who you think the writers won't vote for because they don't have 300 wins. I'll give you Blyleven.

 

After seeing this quote, I wish there could be more Jayson Starks with HoF ballots:

 

We live in an age where we should be looking at performance indicators more sophisticated than wins, don't you think?

[cabbageboy 0]

Schilling had some down years in Philly after their 1993 WS run where he had some arm problems if I recall. The Phillies were also fairly mediocre during that time period. However, once Schilling was healthy and moved to Arizona (and then to Boston) he dazzled with 20 win seasons in 2001, 2002, and 2004. The late career renaissance along with his awesome playoff performances will get him in the Hall.