Russian-Georgian War

[Guest Vitamin X]

Apparently cyberattacks on Georgia's internet network has forced the government there to move all their military/defense information a Google blog. No, I'm not kidding. Here you go:

 

http://georgiamfa.blogspot.com/

 

This amuses me greatly.

[At Home 0]

Google: now a major player in international relations

[EricMM 0]

Is it kind of morbid to be reading that? Hmm...

[Lil' Bitch 0]

So how soon before Bush declares war on Russia?

[Perfxion 0]

never...he is dumb, but not that dumb.

[JPopStarKami 0]

Is anybody scared of a new Cold War or is it just me?

[SuperJerk 0]

NATO: Russia not honoring cease-fire terms

 

BRUSSELS, Belgium (CNN) -- NATO has accused Russia of failing to honor the full terms of the cease-fire agreement brokered by the European Union last week aimed at ending the fighting in Georgia.

 

NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer said Tuesday that Russian forces were still inside Georgia despite the agreement to withdraw -- and despite Moscow saying they had begun pulling out Monday.

 

"We do not see signals of this happening," Scheffer said. "There can be no business as usual with Russia under the present circumstances."

 

Russia's Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said NATO's accusations were "biased."

 

Lavrov said NATO was taking the side of Georgia, whose forces he said had failed to withdraw to their barracks.

 

"They blame us as if there were no requirements for the Georgian side in the six points" of the cease-fire agreement, he said. "I mean the requirements to bring back their troops to the places where they are on a permanent basis."

 

Speaking later in Tbilisi with British Foreign Secretary David Milliband, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili called the NATO statement encouraging, saying Russians "are not and have never been after just small pieces of Georgian territory."

 

"They want to demoralize my people and put them into panic," he said. "They want to not only get rid of the Georgian government but get rid of all idea of Georgia's independence and freedom."

 

Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, deputy chief of staff of Russia's armed forces, said Tuesday that some troops remained in place to protect South Ossetia's borders.

 

"Every day that goes by after the deadline ... is a day that the world can see that Russia is not living up to its word," Milliband said. "With every commitment and every failure to live up to the commitment, international pressure will grow."

 

NATO plans to set up a NATO-Georgian Commission to oversee Georgia's relationship with the international alliance, supervise its bid to join the alliance and assist Tbilisi with support in the wake of the Russian invasion, Scheffer said.

 

A team of 50 NATO staff members will to go to Georgia to help assess the needs of the Georgian military, help with the resumption of air traffic and assist in the investigation of cyberattacks on the former Soviet republic's computer networks.

 

The conflict began when Georgia launched a large-scale attack on South Ossetia on August 7 after a week of what it said were separatist attacks on Georgian villages that border the enclave. Russian troops responded in force the next day, pouring across the international border with hundreds of tanks and armored vehicles and driving into Georgia from South Ossetia and Abkhazia, another Russian-backed separatist territory.

 

The fighting has devastated parts of Georgia and South Ossetia, with many casualties reported. The U.N. refugee agency said that more than 158,000 people had been displaced by fighting in Georgia, mostly from districts outside the breakaway territories where the fighting began. Watch how Georgians are being affected by the conflict »

 

Both Russia and Georgia accuse the other of ethnic cleansing during the conflict.

 

Hopes of resolving the crisis had been boosted earlier Tuesday when Georgia and Russia exchanged soldiers who had been captured during the fighting, and then Russia agreed to a beefed-up monitoring mission for Georgia's disputed region of South Ossetia.

 

However, at the same time, Russian soldiers took 21 Georgian military police officers prisoner at the port of Poti in western Georgia, interior ministry officials said. The Associated Press reported that they also seized four American vehicles set to be returned to the United States after joint military exercises.

 

Georgian officials said local police in Poti asked the military police to intercede when Russian forces entered the city and impeded the delivery of humanitarian aid. After a verbal exchange, the Russian forces took the Georgians into custody, according to the interior ministry officials.

 

The military police officers were disarmed and transferred to the nearby town of Senaki, where Russian forces have established a base, the officials said. The Russian military, however, said its forces were picking up roving Georgian forces who have not returned to their bases.

 

Scheffer's announcement came after foreign ministers from NATO member nations gathered in Belgium for an emergency meeting over the crisis, which also involved U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.

 

A statement from the ministers said, "military action must cease definitively and military forces must return to their positions held prior to the outbreak of hostilities."

 

NATO members "remain concerned by Russia's actions," the statement said, calling Russian military action "disproportionate."

 

"As long as Russian forces are basically occupying a large part of Georgia, I cannot see a NATO-Russia Council convene at whatever level," Scheffer said.

 

"I should add that we certainly do not have the intention to close all doors in our communication with Russia, but ... the future will depend on the concrete actions from the Russian side." Watch report on what actions West may take against Russia »

 

The U.S. claims that Russia is trying to undermine the government of Saakashvili, who is pro-West.

 

The Bush administration wants suspension of the whole spectrum of programs of cooperation between NATO and Russia. Britain and several former Soviet republics support this idea, but other countries -- including France and Germany -- are less inclined to isolate Russia that aggressively.

 

The United States wants Europe to cancel the many exchanges of personnel and postpone an EU-Russia summit scheduled for November and is also pushing Europe to start lessening its energy dependence on Russia.

 

A U.N. Security Council resolution being debated in New York could provide nervous Europeans with a mandate to take some of the punitive actions against Russia the United States is pushing for. Russia, however, wields veto power as a permanent member of the Security Council, so it is unclear whether a resolution will pass.

 

A draft of the resolution being circulated Tuesday calls for "full and immediate compliance with the cease-fire agreement to which the parties have subscribed." It also calls for the immediate withdrawal of Russian forces.

 

Russian U.N. Ambassador Vitaly Churkin called the proposal "very strange," saying that previously discussed language would have required Georgian troops in the region to withdraw before Russian forces did and called for a Russian withdrawal over the next week, not immediately.

 

He stopped short of specifically saying Russia would veto the proposed language but called pushing it "a waste of time."

 

"They can put it to a vote if they want to," he said. "We'll see what happens then."

 

Rice will travel to Warsaw to sign a formal agreement with Poland on Wednesday to base ballistic missile interceptors there. That move, along with the eastward expansion of NATO, has angered Moscow.

 

The chairman of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe said Russia has agreed to allow it to send 20 of observers to Tbilisi to supplement the nine already based in South Ossetia, with the aim of increasing the total to 100.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/19....war/index.html

 

[BruiserKC 0]

I think it's funny that there are people who are blaming Georgia for this, when it was Russia rolling in to put the kibosh on Georgia joining NATO, etc. Georgia has no blame for what happened, Russia wants to take over, plain and simple.

[RepoMan 0]

I'm not going to justify Russia invading, but if Georgia had semi-competent leadership, they would have realized joining NATO and cracking down on South Ossetia invited Russian intervention. NATO blundered BIG time expanding into Russia's sphere of influence. Russian support in the Security Council on issues like Iran and North Korea is WAY more important than some feel good support for states like Georgia. What Russia does in the Near Abroad has no effect on US Security unless we continue to naively align ourselves with unstable “democracies.” Adding backwards ex-Soviet satellites and republics does nothing to strengthen NATO, it’s just riding a 17+ year old high from the Soviet collapse.

 

And let's be honest, if scences like this

 

were taking place in the Mid-East or the Balkans, the Western media would be creaming itself about democracy being on the march.

[BruiserKC 0]

I'm not going to justify Russia invading, but if Georgia had semi-competent leadership, they would have realized joining NATO and cracking down on South Ossetia invited Russian intervention. NATO blundered BIG time expanding into Russia's sphere of influence. Russian support in the Security Council on issues like Iran and North Korea is WAY more important than some feel good support for states like Georgia. What Russia does in the Near Abroad has no effect on US Security unless we continue to naively align ourselves with unstable “democracies.” Adding backwards ex-Soviet satellites and republics does nothing to strengthen NATO, it’s just riding a 17+ year old high from the Soviet collapse.

 

And let's be honest, if scences like this

 

were taking place in the Mid-East or the Balkans, the Western media would be creaming itself about democracy being on the march.

 

 

Wouldn't it have been less likely though for Russia to invade Georgia had it joined up with NATO? If Georgia was in NATO and Russia invaded, it'd be calling for the other NATO nations to jump in. That's why NATO wants now to push to get Ukraine under the NATO banner, meaning it's highly unlikely Russia would pick a fight with NATO.

[Nightwing 0]

I'm not going to justify Russia invading, but if Georgia had semi-competent leadership, they would have realized joining NATO and cracking down on South Ossetia invited Russian intervention. NATO blundered BIG time expanding into Russia's sphere of influence. Russian support in the Security Council on issues like Iran and North Korea is WAY more important than some feel good support for states like Georgia. What Russia does in the Near Abroad has no effect on US Security unless we continue to naively align ourselves with unstable “democracies.” Adding backwards ex-Soviet satellites and republics does nothing to strengthen NATO, it’s just riding a 17+ year old high from the Soviet collapse.

 

You have to be kidding. What Russia does abroad has a big influence on US Security and relations, especially when they are invading a country with the only non-Russian oil Pipeline out of the Caspian Sea. If they take that, they can completely starve Europe for oil whenever they want. That will affect us, even if it isn't directly. Talk to Czechoslovakia about that.

 

And let's get one thing straight: Russia was always going to invade Georgia, simply for the reason I outlined above. Georgia aligning with NATO is the only thing stopping it from becoming a Russian province. NATO hasn't blundered into anything; rather, they forced Russia's hand well early because of their expansion East. Russia is in a miserable spot; they aren't going to be able to hold anything in Georgia for much longer, and they've sped up the Ukraine's membership bid as well as guaranteed a NATO presence in Georgia. It IS strengthening NATO, since most of the original NATO members are less and less likely to go to war, unlike places like Poland who are more than willing to send troops to places that NATO needs them. NATO also has helped strengthen struggling democracies like Lithuania and such (mostly because they don't have to worry about the threat of Russian absorption again). Your critique is pretty off-base on that.

 

As a final note, Russia's "support" on issues like Iran and North Korea has always been up in the air, and would hardly be a guarantee if we just gave them Georgia. This idea of "Let them deal however they want with their former satellite states as long as they help out our initiatives" is stupid and wrong on a whole bunch of levels.

 

And let's be honest, if scences like this

 

were taking place in the Mid-East or the Balkans, the Western media would be creaming itself about democracy being on the march.

Maybe, though context is really everything.

[2GOLD 0]

I've actually read people asking the serious question on whether or not they might expect tanks in Florida. Yeah, the American educational system is really benefiting from doing nothing but preparing kids for the standardize tests.

 

Yes kids, Russia declared war on the state of Georgia. They were pissed about the peaches, Atlanta Braves baseball and of course the Atlanta Hawks mishandling of their young basketball team. Who could blame them really? If the US wasn't going to handle it then Russia clearly had to invade the United States and attack Georgia.

 

And shouldn't this be getting more coverage than it is? Christ, Paris Hilton getting arrested got more attention from the media.

[At Home 0]

So I talked to a Ukranian guy today, and he was pretty much under the impression that it was Georgia's fault. They pre-emptively moved troops into Ossetia even though there were Russian-Georgian agreements made in the Kremlin against such actions. Something like that.

[RepoMan 0]

So I talked to a Ukranian guy today, and he was pretty much under the impression that it was Georgia's fault. They pre-emptively moved troops into Ossetia even though there were Russian-Georgian agreements made in the Kremlin against such actions. Something like that.

I know another Ukranian guy witht the same viewpoint, of course he was from the Russian speaking eastern Ukrain.

[At Home 0]

The Ukranians aren't big on the Russians, though. I just read an editorial from Yushchenko that basically says that Russia is the bully of the East and gambles away these "frozen conflicts" like poker chips.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

The Ukranians aren't big on the Russians, though. I just read an editorial from Yushchenko that basically says that Russia is the bully of the East and gambles away these "frozen conflicts" like poker chips.

 

This is about half true. About half of Ukrainians are pro-Russia & about half anti. The current government is anti.

 

That's why potential Ukrainian entry into NATO is so dicey. If Yuschenko joins & then his government gets voted out, the new pro-Russian government could just take Ukraine right back out of NATO.

[Obi Chris Kenobi 0]

The Ukranians aren't big on the Russians, though. I just read an editorial from Yushchenko that basically says that Russia is the bully of the East and gambles away these "frozen conflicts" like poker chips.

 

There's a whole island off the Ukraine coast that's full of Russians and wants to be part of Russia again. Its also where Russia has its forward most Naval base. If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if in the next decade the old Soviet Union states start to fall back into Russian hands, even if its little by little and province by province like in Georgia.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

With Russian tanks only 30 miles from Tbilisi on August 12, Mr Sarkozy told Mr Putin that the world would not accept the overthrow of Georgia’s Government. According to Mr Levitte, the Russian seemed unconcerned by international reaction. “I am going to hang Saakashvili by the balls,” Mr Putin declared.

 

Mr Sarkozy thought he had misheard. “Hang him?” — he asked. “Why not?” Mr Putin replied. “The Americans hanged Saddam Hussein.”

 

Mr Sarkozy, using the familiar tu, tried to reason with him: “Yes but do you want to end up like [President] Bush?” Mr Putin was briefly lost for words, then said: “Ah — you have scored a point there.”

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle5147422.ece

 

[SuperJerk 0]

He was putiwn3d.