Jump to content
TSM Forums
Sign in to follow this  
Boxer

Perfect timing to put the belt on a guy

Recommended Posts

How about Booker at WM19? He was arguably the #1 face (or at least a near second) on the Raw roster at the time and playing the race card like they did put them in a position where he more or less had to go over...and he gets killed by the Pedigree.

 

That's the one I had in mind right away. They built the whole thing up perfect for Booker to win, and for some reason he didn't. I remember watching that baffled wonder why they didn't do that. The WWE just screwed that one up badly and I really didn't seem to care what happened to Booker after that.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Samoa Joe really should have won the title about a year before he finally won it. Booker T should have gone over Joe in their first match.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Smues

Re: Booker at WM19. I completely agree he should have won, but it didn't surprise me at all that he didn't. What bugged me the most was the long gap between the pedigree and him taking the pin. And watching the match live at Safeco my anger was greater because it really felt like a HHH squash, with a slight Booker comeback tacked on. But having the match on DVD it wasn't as squashish as it first seemed. It was still complete bullshit though. The only saving grace was that they didn't main event. HHH retaining the title as a heel in the main event at another Wrestlemania would have broken my brain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Smues

Oh, and to actually add something to this thread besides HHH bashing I'll mention The Big Bossman at WMVII for the IC belt. Yeah I know Perfect needs to keep it for the Bret match yadda yadda, but ignore the future and just look at that match. The buildup was perfect, with Bossman going through everybody on his way to Mr. Perfect. The fans were behind him, the moment was perfect. Instead we get a lame DQ and Andre stumbling out to make the save. Nice moment there with Andre, but Bossman beating the shit out of Perfect and taking the belt was the proper pay off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They booked themselves into a corner with that one. Hennig probably should have kept the belt due to the Bret feud and the silly Bossman/Mountie feud didn't need a title. Yet Bossman had been built up too well to simply job him there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Road Warriors at Starrcade '87.

 

Great call. It was long overdue, and the show was in Chicago for Mideon's sake! One of the most mind numbing decisions of all time. Sure Flair and Dusty had something to do with it, but it doesnt take away from its pure stupidity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to wonder....did Dusty book these goofy finishes of his own volition or did he actually want to put the belts on other guys only to have various Horsemen members veto it or complain to Crockett? Dusty gets a lot of crap for the Dusty Finish hurting the NWA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One I want to throw out...Nikita Koloff at Starrcade '86. From what I understand, Dusty originally wanted to put the World title on Magnum, T.A. and have him feud with the Russian Nightmare for the title into 1987. Nikita was on a Goldberg-esque run at that time, having won the US title in August, and then the following month unifying it with the National title beating Wahoo McDaniel. When Magnum's career ended with his car accident, this left Dusty changing things, and turning Nikita face. When Nikita came out as a partner for Dusty during a match with Ole Anderson and JJ Dillon the place erupted.

 

Nikita was quickly one of the most popular wrestlers in the NWA, and it would have been an awesome moment to see him beat Flair for the NWA World title at Starrcade. Nikita had only been a pro for about two years but had dramatically improved. He could have feuded with the Horsemen, then gone to a program with his "uncle" Ivan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thing is, Nikita veered in and out of wrestling due to his wife being sick, right? I doubt Crockett really wanted the big belt on him in that case, nor would Nikita especially want that insane travel schedule.

 

As far as the Dusty Finish goes, I think that style of booking is the sort of thing that worked okay on a regional level with the travelling NWA champion schtick. As in the champ comes in once or twice a year, the local guy looks good, gets a reversal of decision type win but no belt. Thing is, when you do it on a national level and keep doing it with numerous top challengers it just kills everyone's heat and pisses fans off. That's a major reason why I think long term heel champs are a bad idea for a major promotion. Put the heel over clean and it dampens the crowd's spirits and kills off the top faces. Or do the goofy screwjob finishes and it outrages fans who stop coming to shows.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IIRC, Nikita's wife died in late '88 or early '89. So at the time I would have had him win the World title it wouldn't have been an issue. However, having him as main eventer and potential World champ down the road might have been a bit tricky.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Nikita's flirtations with the WWF on more than one occasion kind of sent warning signs not to put the belt on him as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have to wonder....did Dusty book these goofy finishes of his own volition or did he actually want to put the belts on other guys only to have various Horsemen members veto it or complain to Crockett? Dusty gets a lot of crap for the Dusty Finish hurting the NWA.

 

Dusty did have a big ego and was enamored with maintaining his position, but what many fail to point out is that many of the Dusty finishes were the result of having a heel champion who refused to do a significant job for about seven years, and who frequently pulled power plays.

 

Had to do something to keep fans interested.

 

Starrcade '87 is a direct manifestation of that struggle as both Dusty and Flair wanted the show to be about themselves. So the natural switch of the tag belts to the Warriors fell by the wayside. Vince helped to kill that show, but their egos guaranteed that the show, and ensuing business would flop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As far as the Dusty Finish goes, I think that style of booking is the sort of thing that worked okay on a regional level with the travelling NWA champion schtick. As in the champ comes in once or twice a year, the local guy looks good, gets a reversal of decision type win but no belt. Thing is, when you do it on a national level and keep doing it with numerous top challengers it just kills everyone's heat and pisses fans off. That's a major reason why I think long term heel champs are a bad idea for a major promotion. Put the heel over clean and it dampens the crowd's spirits and kills off the top faces. Or do the goofy screwjob finishes and it outrages fans who stop coming to shows.

That was the problem with Dusty booking. It had nothing to do with power plays or heels refusing to job. It was simply that Dusty was booking a national promotion with a regional mindset. Dusty was big on keeping the heels strong, with the theory that it makes the babyfaces playing off them even stronger. The problem with doing that on a national level, at least on top for any length of time, is that you send too many fan bases home unhappy. Compare the WWF and the NWA during the 80s. While the NWA had the better wrestling and had better angles for the most part, with the WWF, the fans were always sent home happy because they had a babyface on top who always won. In the NWA, you had a combination of the heel world champions always walking out of the shows with the belt and the immense dissatisfaction of nonstop screwjobs to get there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As far as the Dusty Finish goes, I think that style of booking is the sort of thing that worked okay on a regional level with the travelling NWA champion schtick. As in the champ comes in once or twice a year, the local guy looks good, gets a reversal of decision type win but no belt. Thing is, when you do it on a national level and keep doing it with numerous top challengers it just kills everyone's heat and pisses fans off. That's a major reason why I think long term heel champs are a bad idea for a major promotion. Put the heel over clean and it dampens the crowd's spirits and kills off the top faces. Or do the goofy screwjob finishes and it outrages fans who stop coming to shows.

That was the problem with Dusty booking. It had nothing to do with power plays or heels refusing to job. It was simply that Dusty was booking a national promotion with a regional mindset. Dusty was big on keeping the heels strong, with the theory that it makes the babyfaces playing off them even stronger. The problem with doing that on a national level, at least on top for any length of time, is that you send too many fan bases home unhappy. Compare the WWF and the NWA during the 80s. While the NWA had the better wrestling and had better angles for the most part, with the WWF, the fans were always sent home happy because they had a babyface on top who always won. In the NWA, you had a combination of the heel world champions always walking out of the shows with the belt and the immense dissatisfaction of nonstop screwjobs to get there.

 

Plus, they have very few strong main event caliber faces to carry the promotion (Something Dusty did intentionally to get more heat on him and the top tier of faces). After him, Magnum, and the Rock and Roll Express, there was a huge gap. When Magnum got injured, this came back to bite them big time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone think putting the World Title on Hassan after the London bombings would be tasteless or they should've done that in the first place? It looked to me like they were going to go that route but you know what happened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will always believe Owen Hart should have won the WWF Title from Bret Hart at SummerSlam 1994. He was the hottest heel in the company, especially after he turned Jim Neidhart against Bret, and people would have paid money to see anyone destroy him for the title. A 3-month reign would have been better for Owen than a 3-day reign for Bob Backlund.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about having foley keep the belt until WMXV? You could have done the dream match between austn and foley there, and it would have been more memorable, plus the ending wouldnt have been so obvious (an 8 yr old could have told you austin was walking out of WM with the belt). Also, taker should have gone over bret at survivor series 97 instead of hbk. That way you get the belt off bret without the screwjob (though in the long run it was a good thing), taker gets his heat back after losing HITC a month before, the kane feud gets more intriguing, and hbk can still win at Rumble 98.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Austin vs. Foley would have unnecessarily split the fans with it being an all babyface match. Plus, it never would have had the same dynamic that Austin vs. Rock did.

 

Taker/Austin at summerslam did pretty well and that was a face/face match. And even though austin/rock was good, with austin/foley you set up more unpredictability (not just booking-wise but also match-wise, especially since this was the era where foley was doing crazy bumps galore).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Does anyone think putting the World Title on Hassan after the London bombings would be tasteless or they should've done that in the first place? It looked to me like they were going to go that route but you know what happened.

 

Considering that at the Royal Rumble '91, four days after the start of the Persian Gulf War, that Vince McMahon took the WWF title off the Ultimate Warrior and put it on the American hero turned Iraqi sympathizer Sgt. Slaughter...I could have seen Vince putting the World belt on Hassan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure the plan was to put the belt on Hassan at the Great American Bash and then to have him job to Batista in his home town of DC at Summer Slam. Then UPN got a lot of heat for the terrorist angle on the day of the London bombings and forced WWE to "kill off" the character.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm pretty sure the plan was to put the belt on Hassan at the Great American Bash and then to have him job to Batista in his home town of DC at Summer Slam. Then UPN got a lot of heat for the terrorist angle on the day of the London bombings and forced WWE to "kill off" the character.

 

Hassan's match at the GAB was a #1 contender match, though he was supposed to win that match (before WWE fucked themselves into a corner) and go on to face Batista in D.C. in a match that I never saw him winning.

 

The funny thing is that they could have sent the character back to RAW. Not that I wanted more of what they were doing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hogan and the AWA title does seem like an obvious pick, but Hogan didn't want the title because of his deal with New Japan at the time. Verne Gagne had a deal with rival All Japan and wanted a percentage of Hogan's NJPW earnings, which Hogan refused. Hogan was going to accept Vince's offer whether he was AWA champion at the time or not. Vince would have insisted that Hogan not do any jobs on the way out (ie: drop the title) and Verne probably would have had a situation on his hands similar to that of the debacle with Stan Hansen in '86.

 

I tend to find myself amused when people talk about Montreal and Bret doing the right thing for business etc, yet during Vince's expansion in 1984, he didn't have any problem asking someone to simply walk out of a territory and if they had a belt, that would be a bonus. Same theory applies to the Monday Night Wars and WCW raiding Vince's talent. Somehow it was all unfair whenever the shoe was on the other foot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IIRC Bockwinkel said in an interview, Hogan didn't get the title because they all knew he was leaving for WWF.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hogan and the AWA title does seem like an obvious pick, but Hogan didn't want the title because of his deal with New Japan at the time. Verne Gagne had a deal with rival All Japan and wanted a percentage of Hogan's NJPW earnings, which Hogan refused. Hogan was going to accept Vince's offer whether he was AWA champion at the time or not. Vince would have insisted that Hogan not do any jobs on the way out (ie: drop the title) and Verne probably would have had a situation on his hands similar to that of the debacle with Stan Hansen in '86.

 

I tend to find myself amused when people talk about Montreal and Bret doing the right thing for business etc, yet during Vince's expansion in 1984, he didn't have any problem asking someone to simply walk out of a territory and if they had a belt, that would be a bonus. Same theory applies to the Monday Night Wars and WCW raiding Vince's talent. Somehow it was all unfair whenever the shoe was on the other foot.

 

During several shoot interviews I've heard, talent who left the AWA were told by McMahon to finish their dates and not burn their bridges by no-showing. Vince was busting into Verne's territory more so than anyone (The AWA had a massive amount of area under their control) so he couldn't burn out a town by promoting guys who had skipped out on that city in the past.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just wondering but what were some cases of a guy bolting for the WWF without finishing up and dropping a title on the way out? I don't really recall any of this or see the point since it's not like the WWF ever acknowledged these other promotions or belts on the air.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just wondering but what were some cases of a guy bolting for the WWF without finishing up and dropping a title on the way out? I don't really recall any of this or see the point since it's not like the WWF ever acknowledged these other promotions or belts on the air.

 

The only guy I can think of is Flair 1991. Besides that?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×