WWE Raw - September 1, 2008

[Noah Fentz 0]

I won't bash you Noah, but I would like link to the quote that the WWE said about their demo being 18-30 year old males.

 

If that's the case, then they are way off point because there are numerous children, not to mention, females, that make up a large portion of the audience every week.

 

I think the attitude era was directed at 18-30 year old males. Especially with The Rock and Austin swearing, drinking beer, and beating the shit out of their boss every week. Not to mention, the countless amount of stunners/people's elbows that females got during that time.

 

This era, not so much. There isn't anything edgy about the program right now. I think the "edgy-est" thing about the show is the fact that Cryme Tyme still has the name "Cryme Tyme"....

 

If you DVRed Raw from last week (not the most recent), the quote is during their political coverage. I didn't DVR it, but it was said that the WWE was a perfect way to encourage new voters because their "demographic audience was 18-30 yr old males."

 

I appreciate the cessation of bashing. It truly sucks when I post something I feel will encourage real discussion on a topic, only to be called an idiot.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Pretty sure I said "move on". Can't really hold Canadian Destroyer at fault since he seemed to just be making a rational comment, but then we had to go telling people to get a life, didn't we Noah?

[Noah Fentz 0]

Excuse me?!? How the hell can you sit their and justify some calling me an idiot with idiotic opinions?!?!

 

If you are going to call me out on anything, I better damned well NOT BE THE ONLY ONE. If you should be calling me out at all!

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

The point is, I originally asked for it to just end. And now it continues because you've decided the people who post here have no lives while you've sold out local high school gym with the Honky Donkey Man, thus showing us all why we're idiots and your friends hate you for being right all the time. WELL DONE, SIR. The worst part of all is you've already been spoken to and corrected about this sort of behaviour, mellowed out for a week, were very cordial with me in some message exchanges, and now you're at it again.

 

This is not the "NOAH IS ALWAYS RIGHT" forum. Maybe you should consider starting a blog and typing TO everyone since you don't really seem to want to talk WITH anyone.

 

[garfieldsnose 0]

My opinion is of that WWE markets towards kids. e.g. John Cena, WWE Kids! Magazine, CM Punk, Rey Mysterio, action figures, t-shirts, etc. I am of the opinion that no male over 15 should be wearing WWE t-shirts or collect action figures (unless you want the Legends ones). The only thing that remotely targets males 18-35 is the divas (not so much anymore), and the HBK/Jericho feud, which can really entertain anybody.

 

I still wonder what the reason was for taking the IC belt off Kofi....does he have any heat on him? Can't say I'm disliking this Santino storyline, though. Also, I'm hoping when Orton returns, he forms a stable with Rhodes and DiBiase, because I miss stables. Evolution was one of my favorites, and I enjoyed La Familia.

[Scroby 0]

Noah, We have another sub-forum if you'd like to start a war with someone down there. It's called the Chocolate Socket. I suggest you go down there and make a thread calling out whoever you want to call out. There you can be uncensored and not have to worry about being told to move on.....plus you vs whoever might be really entertaining.

 

Anyways, I agree with whom ever said Cena won't turn heel for a long while. His merchindise is selling like crazy and kids love the guy. To turn him heel while her merch is selling so much and while the kids are still into him would be insane. It won't be like when WCW turned Hogan heel. When WCW turned Hogan heel, the fans still bought his merch, which also really helped sell the nWo stuff as well. If WWE turned Cena heel now, there would be no profit.

 

Yes the WWE's main demographic is males, but they're trying to turn that around to be more family friendly and Cena is their current tool to help with that.

[cd213 0]

See, the problem with a heel Cena, as much as some of us would like to see it, really is the kids. The older fans, including the IWC, like who we like, regardless of them being heel or face, and we would buy merch from them no matter what. Kids, on the other hand will not really want to buy a Cena shirt if he is heel, because he is supposed to be hated. I personally would like to see him go back to being the heel Cena that makes fun of everyone else.

[Scroby 0]

The main problem with Cena going back to being the heel that made fun of everyone is that, that's the gimmick that made him into a face in the first place, so going back to that would be a mistake. However making him do that as a face would probably win him over with all demographics. I think his main issue is that he's portraying the He-man street army babyface, which is hurting him with certain parts of the WWE crowd.

[Noah Fentz 0]

Now, see I don't think that's a wise move, if that is what they are intending to do. Back in the late 80's the WWE was the family oriented business, and it was over like no other. Then, as the fans grew older, the material became more mature, so in essence, the WWE matured with the fans to retain the same fan base.

 

Now, two things have to be considered. First, who has the most disposable income in our hurting economy, and who is the main audience for the WWE right now?

 

The answer to the first would probably still be the 18-24 year old demographic. Leading me to believe that if they are fans now, they were fans during the attitude era. This is the audience they should be milking. What 18-24 year old males want to see family oriented wrestling?

 

Only the other side of the realm of possibility, is it time for the WWE to start "farming" life-long fans like those from the late-80's that are still watching? I see that as a tough job with fewer and fewer dollars out there to be had.

 

On the international level, which of course the WWE is targeting, I think the above still holds true.

[Ravenbomb 0]

I like CM Punk getting microphone time. It should happen more often.

[Noah Fentz 0]

The cool thing about Cena going heel now is that he has a LOOOONG future ahead of him. He'll once again sell NEW shirts, which every kid MUST HAVE. That's a lot of shirts all over again.

 

Also, have you ever noticed that when a huge face goes heel and then back to face again, he's bigger than ever before?

[Scroby 0]

Yeah, cause that worked wonders for Hogan in WCW.

[Noah Fentz 0]

Yeah, cause that worked wonders for Hogan in WCW.

 

WCW was a whole new matter. No one in a WCW audience would ever accept Hogan as a face. But if you look back, historically, that face-heel-face transition made many main eventers.

[Vampiro69 0]

Yeah, cause that worked wonders for Hogan in WCW.

 

WCW was a whole new matter. No one in a WCW audience would ever accept Hogan as a face. But if you look back, historically, that face-heel-face transition made many main eventers.

 

I disagree with that. The WCW audience accepted Hogan as a face, but not as its top face. Did he sell alot of merchandise while face? Yes, but he was still behind Sting as the top face for the company.

 

 

[garfieldsnose 0]

Hogan was getting cheered actually long before he went back to the red and yellow in WCW. In fact, they had to do a double turn with Hogan and Flair to make Hogan face because he just kept getting cheered. If a face turns heel then back again, it doesn't guarantee he is going to be huge. Hogan in WWE as a face when he came back was huge for 2 months, then it quickly died down.

[Noah Fentz 0]

Yeah, cause that worked wonders for Hogan in WCW.

 

WCW was a whole new matter. No one in a WCW audience would ever accept Hogan as a face. But if you look back, historically, that face-heel-face transition made many main eventers.

 

I disagree with that. The WCW audience accepted Hogan as a face, but not as its top face. Did he sell alot of merchandise while face? Yes, but he was still behind Sting as the top face for the company.

 

I would have to think Hogan drew WW(F) fans to WCW. His first few appearances were dismal as far as crowd response. After time his following grew from the now WCW fans he drew.

 

That's one thing that will always be Hogan's claim-to-fame. He was, and probably always will be, the biggest draw the sport will ever see.

 

@ Rocky Balboa - I see huge potential in Cena using the face-heel-face formula, though. If he heels, those fans (mostly smarks) currently mocking him would probably become fans. If he faces as a bad boy or rebel, similar to Austin, he'd be in with everyone.

[cabbageboy 0]

WCW circa 1994-95 with Hogan was such a cynical promotion, using nothing but 1980s WWF booking in an era where it was almost entirely out of style. The whole post Hogan/pre Nitro era WCW was the dead zone, in fact I was shocked that some of those hideous PPVs from that era actually did solid buyrates.

 

Perhaps Hogan's turn in 1999 could have worked had they laid the foundation for it at all. Instead they let a crazy Oakland heel crowd at SuperBrawl dictate a goofy and ill advised double turn with Hogan and Flair. There was nothing in the angle that would indicate either man would turn at all, and frankly in Flair's case after his own son turned on him and he'd beaten attacked every week by the NWO on TV I didn't care if he screwed Hogan over or not.

[fazzle 0]

So...back to discussion about Raw in the Raw thread (shocking!):

 

http://www.megavideo.com/?v=85GS6248

 

Clip of what was edited out of the divas match. That was certainly horrible. No wonder it got clipped so badly.

[Scroby 0]

Jesus Christ! Honestly why does WWE let Candice Michelle get into a wrestling ring? I mean don't get me wrong she's improved a lot over the years but holy shit she botches more than Sabu does.

[cd213 0]

I'm surprised they even aired the match. The fact that they replayed the botched move is really sad.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

You mean that wasn't supposed to be a flying Codebreaker?

[King Cucaracha 0]

@ Rocky Balboa - I see huge potential in Cena using the face-heel-face formula, though. If he heels, those fans (mostly smarks) currently mocking him would probably become fans.

 

That's exactly the problem. Wrestling fans are fickle. If you turn someone every time the fans react the 'wrong' way, nobody would ever stay alligned on one side or the other for more than 4 months. "Oh, they're booing Cena, so we'll turn him heel... then when the people become fans, we'll turn him face... then when he bombs as a face, let's turn him heel again!" Talk about an awful business strategy. Surely it'd be better to look at the root course of who's booing and why and whether it even matters, instead of flip-flopping around with their #1 guy? The people who are booing him are the same people who'll boo him every time he's a face. If those people really mattered and really hated Cena enough to warrant turning him, surely it'd show up financially somehow. Last I checked, it hadn't.

 

It's the EXACT same arguement all the time. "I don't like this version of Cena, I'm a white male aged 18-30, so he MUST turn heel!"

 

If he faces as a bad boy or rebel, similar to Austin, he'd be in with everyone.

 

And here's the second problem. If that's such a surefire idea, why don't they just do that in the first place and not worry about the hassle of turning him heel? Because they're reluctant to make faces act bad. Name one face that's been allowed to for all intents and purposes act like a heel since Austin in 1999? None. I don't doubt this idea would work. I do doubt WWE would allow it.

[Anakin Flair 0]

I hated JBL calling Punk a paper champion, or that his win was a fluke yet again. I mean, it wouldn't be so annoying if the person saying it hadn't been beaten by Punk 3 or 4 times now.

[mfn 0]

i always have, and always will, hate cena. no matter if he's face or heel. i can't stand him.