The US Economy and Current Financial Crisis

[Art Sandusky 0]

They sell cars for their prices because you keep up with everyone else's prices. If you do indeed slash $2,000 from an economy car, what was seen as a pragmatic prison becomes a cheap pragmatic prison. Granted, the quality of domestic offerings in the compact and subcompact (one word: Aveo) warrants lower prices, but if the market will support a price in a vehicle class it becomes the standard. What they do instead is heap cash on the hood to lure potential buyers. That $6,000 "instant cash back" if you run down to your local Chevy dealer and sign papers on a Silverado nullifies any labor-induced price inflation. The imports only do it at the end of the year to clear inventory if a financing plan (Toyota doing 0% financing is a big deal, by the way) can't move the metal. It keeps the domestics looking like they're worth just as much wheras the Japanese don't need to lure people into good products. Can't blame the unions on this one.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Uh..if they didnt have to pay the extra $2,000 to the workers in the form of wage/pensions, it seems to me that they could sell the cars for the same price and actually be making money for the company.

 

just a thought

 

 

[Art Sandusky 0]

If they could, they wouldn't need to give thousands back plus no-interest financing to sell their cars.

[Nightwing 0]

And Marvin shows just how retarded he really is. The Auto companies got caught with their pants down trying to play for the short-term to make up ground they lost years ago, and got caught. That can't be denied, but they'd normally be able to get out of such a rut if the credit companies didn't make securing loans almost impossible.

 

If Unions really were the problem, they would have been out of business in the 80's. Comparatively speaking, the UAW is giving their workers a lot less than they previously had. And they've also cut out the "UAW Janitor" stuff a while ago, before you bring up that argument, too.

[SuperJerk 0]

Everything we're seeing so far seems like a rehash of the start of the Great Depression. Obama talks about raising taxes of the upper 5%...which is what Hoover tried to do. He raised the wealthiest tax bracket from 20 to 55%. Congress keeps screwing up themselves, continually re-altering this bailout which shows more and more it was a bad idea. Meanwhile, they just throw money at companies who just do whatever they want with it, but deny money to those that just want a loan?

 

It's going to get a lot worse before it gets better, folks. Batten down the hatches now.

 

 

So, in other words, NOTHING we're seeing so far seems like a rehash of the start of the Great Depression.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Uh..if they didnt have to pay the extra $2,000 to the workers in the form of wage/pensions, it seems to me that they could sell the cars for the same price and actually be making money for the company.

 

just a thought

 

They should just pay them nothing...that would really cut costs!

[SuperJerk 0]

Just to clarify...when we're talking about Union workers causing problems for car companies, do we mean the American auto workers building Toyotas in Indiana, or the Mexican auto workers building Chevys in Ramos Arizpe?

[dh86 0]

 

Rep McCotter sums up the Auto crisis better than I ever could.

[Dandy 0]

Toyota has a plant near where I live, and it was a big boon for WV. They decided to start an expansion earlier this year, which was going to be a major boost for the local economy due to the influx of good jobs, and the fact that ancillary business were prospering due to Toyota and the increase in population/workers in the area. However, they now had to cut back on a couple hundred jobs.

 

Several of the steel plants in the area had big layoffs, including AK Steel laying off 600 employees. WV is still one of the top states to weather this financial storm due to coal and construction (not to mention that housing prices never soared out of control like other areas), but it appears this area is about to get hit hard as well, now. It won't effect me much overall, as I see it as a great time to make some key investments, and the cost of fuel allows me to save even more for said investments. I also started a business with basically no overhead, and that has taken off above my expecctations. The one thing that will hit me is a great probability that I won't be able to buy my first house, and me and the ol' lady are looking to get married soon.

[Guest Czecherbear]

I like this Thaddeus McCotter. Possibly the Adlai Stevenson of our time. I say this mostly because he's bald.

[Dandy 0]

Will there be any "We've got it bad for Thad" signs?

 

Edit---I guess it would be more apropo to say "We've gone mad for Thad."

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

Mitt Romney says let Detroit go bankrupt

 

Pretty amazing to see that in the NY Times of all places!

 

Of course he's saying that. He doesn't need to pander for votes from autoworkers until the 2012 Republican primaries, at which point he can again promise to save their jobs.

[dh86 0]

We (meaning the taxpayer) should maybe loan them the money, and not tell them what they should do with it.

 

Certainly not a handout, and certainly not interfering with their private business practices. Not interfering any more than what our government should be, anyway. We shouldn't require them to fire their board, they should not be asked to let the government be involved in approving every contract they make with suppliers. The latter requirement which has been floated around is absolutely ridiculous. The need for government rule in everything (except the market, which clearly needs rules and regulations. Like duh) has gotten out of hand. The greed populating our government is sickening. I don't know where it's going to stop. Just a one-shot deal, and tell them that's all they're getting. Let's give them the opportunity to succeed this last time, and when they fail again, let them fail. They'll rise again. I don't think we should be telling them what to do, after all, they'll just come back with the excuse that restrictions placed on the automakers is what's keeping them from succeeding.

 

Truth be told, I don't buy these bullshit scare-tactics the CEO's of Ford, GM, and Chrysler have employed. If they file for bankruptcy, they will be forced to restructure. The jobs will come back, and the company will be better off. And we won't be asked to hand them checks anymore.

 

I agree with Romney's article too. Restructuring through bankruptcy is eventual, unless we're just going to cut them a check every few years. With no credit there is no market for automobiles, American or otherwise. With no market for automobiles, they will not make money. They'll go under, or we'll prop them up year after year. Pretty simple to see what needs to be done here.

 

The forclosure rate is going to go up by how many percents while you play peek a boo with the jobs?

 

[dh86 0]

Mitt Romney says let Detroit go bankrupt

 

Pretty amazing to see that in the NY Times of all places!

 

Remember when he said he'd get all those jobs back for Detroit? I suppose this would have been his plan. Glad to see he's still a complete hypocrite outside of election seasons.

 

Truth be told, I don't buy these bullshit scare-tactics the CEO's of Ford, GM, and Chrysler have employed. If they file for bankruptcy, they will be forced to restructure. The jobs will come back, and the company will be better off. And we won't be asked to hand them checks anymore.

 

I agree with Romney's article too. Restructuring through bankruptcy is eventual, unless we're just going to cut them a check every few years. With no credit there is no market for automobiles, American or otherwise. With no market for automobiles, they will not make money. They'll go under, or we'll prop them up year after year. Pretty simple to see what needs to be done here.

 

Restructuring through bankruptcy won't happen, because they won't restructure. If they go bankrupt, they'll likely liquidate due to the credit market right now. And hell, let's say that they're lucky enough to actually restructure. They've been polling people, and 80% of the general public will NOT buy from a bankrupt auto maker. Yeah, that sounds like they'll really have a chance to succeed. Christ...

 

The fact of the matter is, they're already in the process of restructuring: Ford is already on the way (As Kotzenjunge already pointed out in the other thread), GM is looking to expand into China (A place where the Japanese can't get into because of hostile Chinese tariffs and restrictions), and... well, do what you will with Chrysler. Odds are that it'll likely be part of GM soon enough. I don't mind some government oversight: This idea that "THE GOVERNMENT SHOULDN'T BE ANYWHERE!" helped get us into this mess. Reasonable government oversight will help restore confidence in the system after it ran wild.

 

Unless we want to go the "ECONOMIC APOCALYPSE NOW!" because some conservatives suddenly want to return to "balanced budgets" after 8 years of fucking things up.

 

No matter what the Big 3 do restructuring wise, they'll always have the noose tied around their neck already by way of the Unions and the pensions of the Retired workers.

Im not going to say they should cut off the retired workers pensions, but they need to do something about Union Workers making almost double what a non union worker for Toyota at a plant in the United States makes.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2007/09/26/news/compa...sion=2007092604

 

Please, please research your facts before you post your false words and outdated charts. The UAW will soom assume retiree health care costs per the 2007 strike resolution.

[dh86 0]

Mitt Romney says let Detroit go bankrupt

 

Pretty amazing to see that in the NY Times of all places!

 

Remember when he said he'd get all those jobs back for Detroit? I suppose this would have been his plan. Glad to see he's still a complete hypocrite outside of election seasons.

 

Truth be told, I don't buy these bullshit scare-tactics the CEO's of Ford, GM, and Chrysler have employed. If they file for bankruptcy, they will be forced to restructure. The jobs will come back, and the company will be better off. And we won't be asked to hand them checks anymore.

 

I agree with Romney's article too. Restructuring through bankruptcy is eventual, unless we're just going to cut them a check every few years. With no credit there is no market for automobiles, American or otherwise. With no market for automobiles, they will not make money. They'll go under, or we'll prop them up year after year. Pretty simple to see what needs to be done here.

 

Restructuring through bankruptcy won't happen, because they won't restructure. If they go bankrupt, they'll likely liquidate due to the credit market right now. And hell, let's say that they're lucky enough to actually restructure. They've been polling people, and 80% of the general public will NOT buy from a bankrupt auto maker. Yeah, that sounds like they'll really have a chance to succeed. Christ...

 

The fact of the matter is, they're already in the process of restructuring: Ford is already on the way (As Kotzenjunge already pointed out in the other thread), GM is looking to expand into China (A place where the Japanese can't get into because of hostile Chinese tariffs and restrictions), and... well, do what you will with Chrysler. Odds are that it'll likely be part of GM soon enough. I don't mind some government oversight: This idea that "THE GOVERNMENT SHOULDN'T BE ANYWHERE!" helped get us into this mess. Reasonable government oversight will help restore confidence in the system after it ran wild.

 

Unless we want to go the "ECONOMIC APOCALYPSE NOW!" because some conservatives suddenly want to return to "balanced budgets" after 8 years of fucking things up.

 

No matter what the Big 3 do restructuring wise, they'll always have the noose tied around their neck already by way of the Unions and the pensions of the Retired workers.

Im not going to say they should cut off the retired workers pensions, but they need to do something about Union Workers making almost double what a non union worker for Toyota at a plant in the United States makes.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2007/09/26/news/compa...sion=2007092604

 

Please, please research your facts before you post your false words and outdated charts. The UAW will soom assume retiree health care costs per the 2007 strike resolution.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

i love poker, but i'm pretty bad at it. i've got a winrate of, give or take, -2 big bets per 100 hands. maybe it's because i overvalue top pair, maybe it's because i'm not too keen at math, but over my lifetime, i've lost money and i'm finally going to go broke if you don't stake me. this is due directly to my bad decisions. there are other people in my industry that are making a decent amount of money, but i've shown that i cannot sustain my bankroll because i kinda suck at it.

 

someone plz paypal me $2000. [email protected]

[Guest Vitamin X]

Well, one of the great things we might possibly get out of all this..

 

The Stock Brokers With Hands On Their Faces Blog

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Mitt Romney says let Detroit go bankrupt

 

Pretty amazing to see that in the NY Times of all places!

 

Remember when he said he'd get all those jobs back for Detroit? I suppose this would have been his plan. Glad to see he's still a complete hypocrite outside of election seasons.

 

Truth be told, I don't buy these bullshit scare-tactics the CEO's of Ford, GM, and Chrysler have employed. If they file for bankruptcy, they will be forced to restructure. The jobs will come back, and the company will be better off. And we won't be asked to hand them checks anymore.

 

I agree with Romney's article too. Restructuring through bankruptcy is eventual, unless we're just going to cut them a check every few years. With no credit there is no market for automobiles, American or otherwise. With no market for automobiles, they will not make money. They'll go under, or we'll prop them up year after year. Pretty simple to see what needs to be done here.

 

Restructuring through bankruptcy won't happen, because they won't restructure. If they go bankrupt, they'll likely liquidate due to the credit market right now. And hell, let's say that they're lucky enough to actually restructure. They've been polling people, and 80% of the general public will NOT buy from a bankrupt auto maker. Yeah, that sounds like they'll really have a chance to succeed. Christ...

 

The fact of the matter is, they're already in the process of restructuring: Ford is already on the way (As Kotzenjunge already pointed out in the other thread), GM is looking to expand into China (A place where the Japanese can't get into because of hostile Chinese tariffs and restrictions), and... well, do what you will with Chrysler. Odds are that it'll likely be part of GM soon enough. I don't mind some government oversight: This idea that "THE GOVERNMENT SHOULDN'T BE ANYWHERE!" helped get us into this mess. Reasonable government oversight will help restore confidence in the system after it ran wild.

 

Unless we want to go the "ECONOMIC APOCALYPSE NOW!" because some conservatives suddenly want to return to "balanced budgets" after 8 years of fucking things up.

 

No matter what the Big 3 do restructuring wise, they'll always have the noose tied around their neck already by way of the Unions and the pensions of the Retired workers.

Im not going to say they should cut off the retired workers pensions, but they need to do something about Union Workers making almost double what a non union worker for Toyota at a plant in the United States makes.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2007/09/26/news/compa...sion=2007092604

 

Please, please research your facts before you post your false words and outdated charts. The UAW will soom assume retiree health care costs per the 2007 strike resolution.

Which they'll somehow pass off to the government in a bailout deal.

[Nightwing 0]

Well, considering Marvin's track record, I think we can be assured that it probably won't now. I mean, the darkies didn't even riot like he wanted them to...

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

I am of the new opinion that the Economy can't be as bad as everyone says. My proof? I saw about 10 people walk past a $50 bill laying in the middle of the parking lot at Sears on Black Friday at about 5:30 am. No one bothered to stop and pick it up on their way to save money by spending it and I was $50 richer for a short period of time before I spent part of it and put the rest in a Salvation Army kettle.

 

 

 

 

[The Niggardly King 0]

...

[Guest Vitamin X]

Marvin spent $49 and gave $1.

[CanadianChris 0]

Ten barely-awake people walk by a bill lying on the ground in a pitch black parking lot at 5:30 in the morning. Get my broker on the phone!

[EricMM 0]

Troll.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

Ten barely-awake people walk by a bill lying on the ground in a pitch black parking lot at 5:30 in the morning. Get my broker on the phone!

 

Well, it was more or less right by the sidewalk in front of the entrance and it was lit pretty well.

 

And my point is missed somewhere here..any other time you have a $50 bill lying around with so many people around there would have probably been a stampede like at that Wal Mart over it. People were so overwhelmed with spending money to save money that they didnt see the $50 right on the ground.

 

And for the record, I put $20 in a kettle after I bought lunch and a new mouse for my laptop, it seemed to be the thing to do.

[At Home 0]

They didn't see the dollar bill. Case closed.

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

They didn't see the dollar bill. Case closed.

 

I doubt 10 people didnt see an unfolded $50 bill laying face down on the ground. I could buy 1 or 2 people..but 10? Possible explanation is that they might have thought it was counterfeit, or that they've never seen the backside of a $50 bill before (which features the U.S. Capital ) and maybe somehow thought it was a $2 or something dumb like that but still..

[At Home 0]

They were too busy walking to their car with their shit to be looking around on the floor of the store they just came out of.

 

Case.

 

Closed.

[NoCalMike 0]

My proof of how awful the economy is:

 

Marvin was spending black friday walking around looking dropped money on the sidewalk.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I saw about 10 people walk past a $50 bill laying in the middle of the parking lot at Sears on Black Friday at about 5:30 am.