Guest TigerDriver91 Report post Posted June 25, 2002 I just recently got a T2P comp from the supreme being of all things Toryumon, M2J. And I can safely say that I'm amazed by the 'Llave' style that these guys work. It got me wondering why T2P and other lucharesu orginizations (Osaka, Michinoku, Toryumon Japan) are slept on in general in this and other forums... Hey, maybe I'm the only one who enjoys a fast paced junior tag more than something like Misawa/Tsuruta... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest J*ingus Report post Posted June 25, 2002 I got the T2P Tournament tape recently. I've only watched the first match so far, have no idea who any of these guys are, but was actually saying "what the FUCK!?" out loud to my TV screen, some of their matwork and highspots were so wacky and innovative. Great stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ultimo the great Report post Posted June 25, 2002 Just seen the debut show last week and its f*cking awesome milano, oyanagi, yoshino and brother yashiini are the stand outs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RickyChosyu Report post Posted June 26, 2002 It got me wondering why T2P and other lucharesu orginizations (Osaka, Michinoku, Toryumon Japan) are slept on in general in this and other forums... Hey, maybe I'm the only one who enjoys a fast paced junior tag more than something like Misawa/Tsuruta... Well, essentially, because those groups are fun, but laregely devoid of substance. Many people complain that Toryumon pretty much offers no deviation from show to show, and I would have to agree. There are lots of great workers, but they only be seen doing the same moves in the same matches for so long before it gets borring. There is little depth behind it. And I really enjoy what M-Pro I've seen, but that's largely regarded as a burnt-out promotion too. I mean, the Far East Connection great and all, but really it's impossible for Sasuke and co. to reach the levles they had before. And Osaka Pro sounds quite wacky and good, but other than something totally abstract and wacky, I don't see much appeal there. I really liked Muruhama, though, so maybe I'll pick up a tape. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest HBK16 Report post Posted June 26, 2002 Dragon Kid is Fn amazing. ¿Anybody know the relationship with Ultimo and Dragon Kid in and out of the ring? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Black Tiger Report post Posted June 26, 2002 The promotions like T2P, M Pro etc only can go that direction for so long until injuries pile up and workers get burnt out. That's why most people who buy M Pro tapes go for the 1996-1998 period, that was the promotion at its finest. In 2000 Toryumon was the hottest thing in Japan, now two years later the workers are burned out from such a fast pace and aren't as motovated to go like that again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted June 26, 2002 "In 2000 Toryumon was the hottest thing in Japan," Actually, PRIDE was. But I was assuming you meant popularity and drawing power when you said "hottest." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RickyChosyu Report post Posted June 27, 2002 "In 2000 Toryumon was the hottest thing in Japan," Actually, PRIDE was. But I was assuming you meant popularity and drawing power when you said "hottest." Yeah, but Pride never attempts to even pass itself off as something close to a "wrestling prodoct" even though a lot of wrestlers work there and many of the fights are "questionable" at best when it comes to legit shoots. But then again New Japan is practically all worked shoots these days, so I guess it's all the same one way or another. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Stuart Report post Posted June 27, 2002 But then again New Japan is practically all worked shoots these days, so I guess it's all the same one way or another. Not even 1% of New Japan is worked shoot. On the current one month tour, with 22 shows, one match will be worked shoot and will probably be a good match (Nagata vs. Rutten). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted June 27, 2002 Yeah, but Pride never attempts to even pass itself off as something close to a "wrestling prodoct" even though a lot of wrestlers work there and many of the fights are "questionable" at best when it comes to legit shoots. The vast majority of PRIDE fans are pro wrestling fans. The company obviously markets to that demographic--why else would they put Yoshihiro Takayama in main events? He's not a very good shooter but he's got drawing power, and that's what counts. It may not technically be pro wrestling, but when it draws more wrestling fans at big shows than actual wrestling companies, it's something that has to be noted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Joshi Guerrero Report post Posted June 27, 2002 I think I'm one of the few who is underwhelmed by T2P, I'm a fairly big fan of Tory, so when I was getting in the tv from that time frame I just got in the T2P as a matter of course. The mexico special was devoid of good matches and while I think the style was fun at the debut show, I can't honestly say it had any matches that made me want to see more. I mean when I got that order in I fond stuff like the CIMA/Big Fuji/Judo Suwa vs. Magnum Tokyo/Dragon Kid/Ryo Saito vs. Masaaki & Susumu Mochizuki/Yasushi Kanda - Trios 3 way much more entertaining. Still, I look forward to seeing how the feud plays out between the two groups. As for the other japan lucha feds, I enjoy OsakaPro more than current MPro, and from the way Tory has looked lately maybe more than that too. Pitty it's so hard to find their tapes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RickyChosyu Report post Posted June 28, 2002 Not even 1% of New Japan is worked shoot. On the current one month tour, with 22 shows, one match will be worked shoot and will probably be a good match (Nagata vs. Rutten). Forgive me if I'm wrong on this, but it seems to me like the pressance of shoots is still very real. Doesn't Yusuda still partake in tours? Isn't Naruse still kept around and semi-pushed in the Junior division? Isn't Fujita still in line to get a title shot? I know Takayama is part of the Noah Invasion, but I have to wonder if that's because of his accomplishments in NOAH or PRIDE. Ogawa is still making his pressance known, albiet in the tag division, but he's still there. All this plus Rutten's pressance, and it comes off very shooty to me. Then again, I've been lead to believe that anytime Inoki has his way there are shooty elements. Again, maybe I'm wrong. wolverine: Very true, and I agree that fights like Shamrock/Frye, Takada/Otsuka, and Takayama/Fujita are all booked for wrestling fans, but I still have trouble considering it wrestling. However, considering how much the afformentioned fights are often fixed, the line between wrestling and shoot-fighting is definately being messed with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
