Metallica Fans

[Guest CoreyLazarus416]

From cartman2092

....Or maybe they did the right thing and GREW UP into something they all thought was better. They just HAPPENED to make a shitload of money and fame on it.

 

NO band can make it big without making at least ONE quality...I mean true QUALITY song. Just because you people are so called "Metal purists" doesnt mean you are "musically knowledgeable"

 

This isn't a question about being a metal purist, this is just a question of better music. Can you honestly say that "Holier Than Thou" is better than "For Whom The Bell Tolls"? Or that "Through The Never" is better than "Call Of Ktulu" and "Orion" and "To Live Is To Die"? Have you even HEARD "Welcome Home (Sanitarium)" or "Fade To Black"? Hell, "(Anesthesia) - Pulling Teeth" is just a bass solo, and it's still better than half of the songs on Metallica.

 

On a sidenote, I do like The Black Album. It's one of my favorite albums ever, and one of the best purchases I ever made. By calling it Metallica's worst album, I'm not just saying it's a piece of shit album overall, because it's great pure hard rock with some metal songs ("Enter Sandman," "The Unforgiven," and "The Struggle Within"), and the songs on it are classics.

 

On another sidenote, anybody else think that "The Struggle Within" was a b-side not used for ...And Justice For All, or originally written around that time period?

[Guest cartman]

Ok you made your point. I own every Metallica CD because I am a Metallica fan. A big one at that!

 

There are great, I mean unbelievavly great songs on the older albums before the "Black" album, but the Black album and even the ones after it deserve alot of credit too. Let me put it THIS way for you.

 

Kill Em All, Ride The Lightening, And justice for all, and Master of Puppets ALL had some good songs on them....BUT the Black Album was their best album(besides S&M) because it had ALL good songs. Most Metallica fans have to admit that not every song on albums previous to "Black" was great...Black set a new standard with the sheer quantity AND quality of songs combined. Every true Metallica fan enjoys almost every song on Black, thats just the way it is. I cant say that about any of their other albums even if some of the songs on the other albums were better than individual songs on Black.

 

Understand what i'm sayin? I hope so.

[Guest CoreyLazarus416]

Actually, most "true" Metallica fans forget about The Black Album, because it marked their turning from thrash metal/underground sensation into mainstream rock band, complete with stadium shows with the likes of Guns N' Roses (who the metal community HATED because of their popularity...yeah, I agree, the underground metal community is really quite elitist, and I can't stand most of it).

 

The songs on The Black Album are decent to good at best, but nothing is that great on it. Master Of Puppets has 3 great songs ("Master Of Puppets," "Welcome Home (Sanitarium)," and "Orion"), 2 very good songs ("Battery" and "Disposable Heroes"), and 3 good songs ("Leper Messiah," "Damage, Inc." and "The Thing That Should Not Be"). I think that alone makes it their best album.

 

Also, from a strict musical standpoint, that album sounds more like a symphony than it does a metal band, especially "Orion."

 

EDIT: Here, I'll even break out the stars...

 

Master Of Puppets

1. "Battery" - ****

2. "Master Of Puppets" - *****

3. "The Thing That Should Not Be" - ***

4. "Welcome Home (Sanitarium)" - ****1/2

5. "Disposable Heroes" - ****

6. "Leper Messiah" - ***1/2

7. "Orion" - ****3/4

8. "Damage, Inc." - ***

 

Now, here's The Black Album...

Metallica

1. "Enter Sandman" - ****

2. "Sad But True" - ****1/4

3. "Holier Than Thou" - ***

4. "The Unforgiven" - ****

5. "Wherever I May Roam" - ***

6. "Don't Tread On Me" - **1/2

7. "Through The Never" - **3/4

8. "Nothing Else Matters" - ***

9. "Of Wolf And Man" - ***1/2

10. "The God That Failed" - ***

11. "My Friend Of Misery" - ***

12. "The Struggle Within" - ****

 

Okay, now I can see your point, but it's only because The Black Album features 4 more tracks. Get rid of tracks 9-12, and you have it as an inferior album.

[Guest TheyCallMeMark]

Or maybe people don't like The Black Album because it's simply their worst album?

 

Them is fightin' werds.

 

Let me say a piece on the reason I like Metallica better than any of the other Metallica albums.

 

Kill 'Em All... has SEVERAL bad songs on it (nearly half the songs being just tolerable).

Ride The Lightning was great but a few of lyrics, vocals and guitar solos leave alot to be desired.

Master Of Puppets was just Ride with some weak songs.

...And Justice For All seemed kind of sloppy but I haven't really listened to it.

 

As far as metal albums go, I would say Ride The Lightning was Metallica's best metal album and in my opinion the best metal album ever. Let me compare my star ratings (Whoo!) of Master Of Puppets, Ride The Lightning and Metallica.

 

Ride The Lightning

"Fight Fire With Fire" - Neat acoustic introduction with a cool speed riff to fill it out and Hammet rips Mustaine's solo all over the place and it's pretty sweet. Mustaine's best song... And hell he didn't even record it. ***3/4

"Ride The Lightning" - Wayyy too many vocals before the solo, and that really spoils the song for me, it just becomes too boring before it reaches the climax. I can't listen to this song more than maybe once every couple weeks. **3/4

"For Whom The Bell Tolls" - Very cool vocals and lyrics, the best Metallica had until Metallica came out. But it was missing a climax and just kind of dropped off. Not as bad as the previous song but still leaves something to be desired. ***

"Fade To Black" - One of the, (if not the) best songs ever. Perfect balance of vocals and music, climaxing with one of the greatest guitar solos ever recorded. *****

"Trapped Under Ice" - Wicked solo's and very cool rhythm make this song damn good and damn underated. ****

"Escape" - Trying to reacreate the magic of "Fade To Black" but it misses by a mile. The vocal sentiment is as good but musically it's just not there. ***

"Creeping Death" - Kick ass song that really rips it up but the solo is a little dissapointing. ***1/2

"The Call Of Ktulu" - Just a bad instrumental. Strung out and boring. No way it deserved nine minutes. **3/4

 

Master of Puppets

1. "Battery" - Very strong tune that kicks ass, and I would say it's equal to the next song... ***

2. "Master Of Puppets" - Overated. Very overated. I don't event think it's that good. At best it's just "For Whom The Bell Tolls" two, as it contains many of the same concepts except it runs about two minutes longer due to a large breakdown in the middle which happens to be the best part of the song, though the songs solo is good... There is no moment in this song that makes me smile with the delight of hearing a song become really great. ***

3. "The Thing That Should Not Be" - I don't really dig this song much, it's along the same lines as "Leper Messiah" as I don't really think it was all that great and just seemed like filler.

4. "Welcome Home (Sanitarium)" - Very good song, easily the best one the album because it manages to recreate the glory of Ride The Lightning... But it's no "Fade To Black" and you can only catch lightning in a bottle once so this is still a good effort. ****1/4

5. "Disposable Heroes" - Pretty good but overlong for what if gave you as far as payoff goes. ***

6. "Leper Messiah" - Honestly I don't remember much about this song and I own the album so obviously it can't be that good **.

7. "Orion" - Can we say "slightly better than 'Call Of Ktulu' but 'Anesthisia's' bitch"? Just not a very good song if you ask me. For an instrumental the guitarwork was a little weak, I thought. ***

8. "Damage, Inc." - Decent metal riffing... Not really great though. **3/4

 

Metallica

1. "Enter Sandman" - As perfect as this song could have possibly been executed. Everything is just right. The stupid little intermission with the little boy is the only thing that brings this song down... But it's still a classic ****1/2

2. "Sad But True" - Musically this song is good as Hetfield rocks it and Hammet tears it but the thing that really makes this song gold is the bass which is some of the heaviest shit in the world that a hard rock song has seen... And it goes so well with the song it makes me smile every time I hear it. The only thing that cuts it down is the vocals sometimes get boring. ****

3. "Holier Than Thou" - Very catchy song but supplies very little beyond shallow enjoyment of the chorus. Listenable and doesn't bring the ablum down.***

4. "The Unforgiven" - Another absolute classic song that allows Hammet to build to a perfect solo that is the heaviest I have every personally heard moroseful blues-rock. ****1/2

5. "Wherever I May Roam" - Damn catchy riff, chorus and the verse is still very good though, no, it's not exactly mindblowing. However, the solo harks back more than any other to the days of Ride The Lightning. ****1/4

6. "Don't Tread On Me" - See "Holier Than Thou"

7. "Through The Never" - See "Holier Than Thou"

8. "Nothing Else Matters" - Very cool guitar part but the song really becomes tiresome after hearing it ninty thousand goddamn times. ***

9. "Of Wolf And Man" - I love this song, but once again see "Holier Than Thou".

10. "The God That Failed" - See "Holier Than Thou".

11. "My Friend Of Misery" - Very cool song with emotional guitars that move me much like the "Unforgiven" solo does. ***1/2

12. "The Struggle Within" - A better version of "My Friend Of Misery" that provides a satisfying climax to one of the all-time greatest albums. ****

 

Anyway that's just how I view it. I think the black album was a nice step from the overcomplication of Master Of Puppets back to simplistic rock that was more real than the metal albums. The best stuff of Metallica's career can be found here aside from a few gems on their former records.

 

UNFORTUNATLY Metallica chose to SHIT AWAY another oppertunity of an absolutley classic album (by splitting the Load/ReLoad song block into two equal halves instead of taking all the best songs and shoving them onto one superalbum) because of Hetfield's and Ulrich's never ending quest to make a shitload of money they don't need.

[Guest MaxPower27]

Overcomplication? That's why so-called "Metallica purests" love the first 4 albums, they aren't complicated and overproduced.

 

You obviously love the Black album, as you are currently deep-throating better than Missy Hyatte at a job interview.

 

Kill 'Em All, Ride, Master, and Justice all get honorary *****, just for being the end all blueprints for what this music should sound like. Black, while good, should have been 8 tracks long. Holier than thou, through the never, of wolf and man, and the god that failed, are all B sides, at best.

 

Oh, and "Fight Fire with Fire" is the the best song Mustaine wrote while with Metallica. To say it's the "best he ever wrote" is asinine. Take just one song off of Rust in Peace, Peace Sells..., or hell, even Countdown to Extinction and it's better than "Fight fire". To ignore what Mustaine contributed to metal, makes you look like a real fuckface.

[Guest TheyCallMeMark]

Wow, we're not close minded at all.

 

"Shittin' bricks, Jethro, y'mean summun' might think 'bout somthin' diff'rently then me?"

 

Yes, my friend, it is true. As human beings we may all have different opinions on music, and this is the real shocker.You don't need to be immature to do it. In an amazing act of having a brain you can in fact present your point of view without resulting to childish insults. I hope your witty commentary made you feel big, because as close-minded as you have shown yourself to be you'll never truly be a big person.

 

Overcomplication? That's why so-called "Metallica purests" love the first 4 albums, they aren't complicated and overproduced.

 

Yes, they were overcomplicated. Metallica was obviously just catering to it's metal fanbase with Master Of Puppets and ...And Justice For All by slapping everything they possibly could into one song just for the sake of it being metal-ish. Any person who seems as dedicated as you do to defending Metallica must be able to see that Metallica truly sold-out on Master Of Puppets when they stopped making songs just because they liked them and were trying to appease their metal audiance and scoop MegaDeth.

 

You obviously love the Black album, as you are currently deep-throating better than Missy Hyatte at a job interview

 

Amazing wit there. I simply don't have a response to such and overwhelming amount of intelligence in such a high concentration. Could one sentance be any more ingenious?

 

By the way, detective, I'm glad you mentioned that I like the black album, because it was hard to tell with such hazy descriptions as "...I like Metallica better than any of the other Metallica albums" and "The best stuff of Metallica's career can be found here...". It's great how obviously you pointed it out just so you could use your wonderful Missy Hyatte comment that you must've had cooking since the last time you saw it on this board.

 

 

Kill 'Em All, Ride, Master, and Justice all get honorary *****, just for being the end all blueprints for what this music should sound like. Black, while good, should have been 8 tracks long. Holier than thou, through the never, of wolf and man, and the god that failed, are all B sides, at best.

 

Those albums should not get any rating anywhere near that rating. Ride The Lightning, the best of the four is at best a **** album, as I can listen to it all the time but it doesn't bring the sheer joy that say Metallica, Dark Side Of The Moon, Nevermind or Californication do. The fact you think music should sound like that is your opinion. And I don't think I should have to like anything just because it impacted the musical world. In that case, I would go ahead and listen to some Handel or Bach (two people who REALLY impacted music). I listen to music based on what sounds good to me, not what made a genre or a style. I can respect the albums, but I can't say their perfect.

 

Oh, and "Fight Fire with Fire" is the the best song Mustaine wrote while with Metallica. To say it's the "best he ever wrote" is asinine. Take just one song off of Rust in Peace, Peace Sells..., or hell, even Countdown to Extinction and it's better than "Fight fire". To ignore what Mustaine contributed to metal, makes you look like a real fuckface.

 

Well I don't think it's asinine. I think writing a song as good as "Fight Fire With Fire" when you're working with an incompetent vocalist and drummer is pretty damn good. It's one of the best metal songs of all time (perhaps the best behind "Trapped Under Ice"). It's no insignificant feat to write a song that damn good. I own Rust In Peace, Countdown To Extinction, Cryptic Writings and The World Needs a Hero. Considering those are probably his best four albums outside of Metallica, I can safely say "Fight Fire With Fire" is the best (except for maybe "MotoPsycho"). Who said I ignore his contribution to metal? I didn't. I think "Fight Fire With Fire" is an awesome contribution that deserves alot of credit, as does cutting around four-five albums than are ***-***1/2. I'd consider that a damn good career.

 

That's what I think, though. I'm pretty often a bit off.

[Guest MaxPower27]

1- The Hyatt reference was a joke, ie. not meant to be taken seriously. Kind of like the "jethro" junk at the beginning of your post.

 

3- I never said Metallica impacted music more than Handel or bac or beetoven or any of that stuff. I stated my opinion, that it was the blueprint for how many feel that the music should sound, you stated yours, Black is on top albumwise, worse than the NBA, we're even.

 

9- Is "The World Needs a Hero" any good? I've read reviews that say it's softer than any of MD's other stuff, some say it sucks hard, some say it's average, can I get an opinion?

 

57- Oh, and saying that "hope your witty commentary made you feel big, because as close-minded as you have shown yourself to be you'll never truly be a big person." after I've made 80 something posts in a mostly wrestling forum is closeminded as much as I am about my music. I get pissed easily when I'm in a bad mood (which I am tonight...Worst. Birthday. Ever.) that's why I wrote that mostly sardonic post, so call it a "takes different strokes to move the world" and move on.

[Guest CoreyLazarus416]

I simply cannot stand The Black Album on the fact that most of the songs sound too much alike, and no song really stands out that isn't played-out from radio airplay (read: "Enter Sandman").

 

Master Of Puppets and Slayer's Reign In Blood are commonly referred to as metal's greatest albums ever, and I agree whole-heartedly with Master Of Puppets. The songs appeal extend beyond just the hardcore metal purist fanbase Metallica had at the time and show obvious signs of classical influence. Does The Black Album? No. Most fans of The Black Album just started listening to Metallica because they heard "Enter Sandman" on the radio, or "Sad But True," and liked it.

 

I have to kind of laugh when people say The Black Album is their best album, when Master Of Puppets is just so much better from a pure musical standpoint. For instance, try playing "Orion," and then play "Sad But True." "Orion"'s song construction is complicated, the timing is hard to get down right, and bass parts can be mistaken for guitar parts (as with several of Burton's basslines, see: "For Whom The Bell Tolls" intro).

[Guest Mr. Adam]

"The Call Of Ktulu" - Just a bad instrumental. Strung out and boring. No way it deserved nine minutes. **3/4

 

Aw man, I can't let that one stand at all. To me, it's simply an awesome, awesome track. This track is my favourite piece ever and one I listen to when getting psyched up before a race. The nine minutes it gets is perfectly utilised in heightening emotion and indeed, letting it go.

 

I see no problem with an album being overplayed on the radio, it's just elitist to think that everyone can't listen to"our" music. It doesn't mean quality has been diminished, it simply means that styles have changed. All bands change over time.

[Guest CoreyLazarus416]

All bands change?

**looks at AC/DC**

 

"Call Of Ktulu" is only 7:40 or so. Unless you're talking about the live S&M version, which I believe they added about a minute and a half to for the symphony.

[Guest TheyCallMeMark]

9- Is "The World Needs a Hero" any good? I've read reviews that say it's softer than any of MD's other stuff, some say it sucks hard, some say it's average, can I get an opinion?

 

Well it's alot better than Risk, that's for sure. It's not exactly a thrashfest or anything but it certainly doesn't suck. It's worth twelve bucks if you have all the other CD's you want but I wouldn't go out of your way to buy it.

 

I simply cannot stand The Black Album on the fact that most of the songs sound too much alike, and no song really stands out that isn't played-out from radio airplay (read: "Enter Sandman").

 

It's not the bands fault the stuff is overplayed... The songs were just good enough to be overplayed. I've personally only gotten sick of listening to "Nothing Else Matters" but I can still sit through it if nothing else is on. I can't get sick of any other song on the album.

 

I have to kind of laugh when people say The Black Album is their best album, when Master Of Puppets is just so much better from a pure musical standpoint. For instance, try playing "Orion," and then play "Sad But True." "Orion"'s song construction is complicated, the timing is hard to get down right, and bass parts can be mistaken for guitar parts (as with several of Burton's basslines, see: "For Whom The Bell Tolls" intro).

 

It's not better from a musical standpoint. Technically, the riffs can be as difficult as you like but the sound just isn't bringing it to the table. The best riff (in my opinion) is in in Master Of Puppets... I couldn't tell you which part it was for... And very few other riffs can stand out in the generic thrash stuff (listen to Countdown To Exctinction, then Master of Puppets... Mustaine and Hetfield were doing the same thing at this point but I think Mustaine got the better riffs). The only reason this album is liked so much are the "classical" breakdowns. I can play most of Orion (half of the the soloing bass parts), and it's not an awful song by any stretch, it's pretty freaking good. I just don't think it was as good as "Anesthesia" which is the best instrumental by a singing group, in my opinion. The intro to "For Whom The Bell Tolls" is great, if only they hadn't just let the song drop off. In fact that intro is one of my favourite parts...

 

Aw man, I can't let that one stand at all. To me, it's simply an awesome, awesome track. This track is my favourite piece ever and one I listen to when getting psyched up before a race. The nine minutes it gets is perfectly utilised in heightening emotion and indeed, letting it go.

 

If it is good for you, that's great, man. For me there is too much time when they're just riffing with no bass/drums/guitar work going on. I haven't heard the S&M version but I understand it's much better/

 

"Call Of Ktulu" is only 7:40 or so. Unless you're talking about the live S&M version, which I believe they added about a minute and a half to for the symphony.

 

It's 8:52 according to the back sheathe for Ride The Lightning. I promise.

[Guest Shaved Bear]

Master of Puppets cannot recieve anything less than ****3/4

Creeping Death is pure *****, as we learn a biblical lesson as well

Fade to Black, IMO, is the best song ever written by anyone

 

All of the albums before the loads were pur kick-ass

Ride, IMO, is best, now everyone has opinions, and everyone seems strong of them, which is understandable, but comparing The Black ALbum with any of the first 4 is impossiuble because they are so different, because even if they arent as good, they are a helluva lot etter than a majority of the bands today

 

and as for slayer...seasons in the abuyss is their best work IMO

[Guest The Metal Maniac]

For instance, try playing "Orion," and then play "Sad But True." "Orion"'s song construction is complicated, the timing is hard to get down right, and bass parts can be mistaken for guitar parts

 

Complicated =/= Good.

 

I could write something that could be impossible to play; That doesn't mean it'd sound good.