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EVIL~! alkeiper

Greatest Living Ballplayers

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Guest Agent of Oblivion

QB: Peyton Manning (Though Brady, Marino, and Elway are all acceptable choices)

RB: Barry Sanders

TE: Tony Gonzalez

WR: Jerry Rice (Best player at his individual position ever)

WR: Marvin Harrison

WR: Isaac Bruce

OT: Anthony Munoz

OG: John Hannah

C: Dermotti Dawson

OG: Bruce Matthews

OT: Art Shell

 

K: Morten Anderson

P: Ray Guy

KR/PR: Brian Mitchell (For those surprised at Hester not being here, despite being a homer, Hester has averaged over 1000 ret. yds/season, but so did Mitchell. For 14 seasons. I think Hester's best days as a return man are already behind him, sadly)

 

DE: Deacon Jones

DE: Bruce Smith

DT: Bob Lilly

DT: Mean Joe Greene

LBs: Lawrence Taylor, Mike Singletary, Chuck Bednarik

CBs: Darrell Green, Rod Woodson

Safeties: Paul Krause, Ronnie Lott

 

That's starters. I'll edit in backups if I get around to it.

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A really solid list. The only thing I would change is Jeter for A-Rod at SS and I would get rid of Pedro and put in Nolan Ryan.

 

Edit: Oh, and take that shitbag Manny out and put in Reggie Jackson.

 

Nolan Ryan is almost certainly the most overrated player in baseball history. He's a Hall of Famer yes, but people put him in their all time rotations. In this case, Ryan never won a Cy Young award in his career. Pedro has three. If you're going to be one of the best ever, shouldn't you have been the best for at least one season?

 

Derek Jeter. He's third among living shortstops with 1,000+ games, but let's take out everyone's decline phase. Jeter falls to fifth in OPS+ up to age 34 behind Rodriguez, Ernie Banks, Garciaparra and Barry Larkin. Cal Ripken and Robin Yount are close enough that defense gives them the edge. So among living shortstops the highest I can comfortably rate Jeter is 8th.

 

As for Manny Ramirez, his teams have made the postseason ten times so I can hardly say his antics are a detriment to his teams' success. If you want a different outfielder though, I suggest Duke Snider who is still alive into his 80s.

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RB: Walter Payton(28)

 

Dead.

 

QB: Joe Montana (1)

 

Get bent.

Bah...

 

Edited with LT2 in place of Payton.

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I think everyone has jumped on the Nolan Ryan is overrated bandwagon to the point that he might be underrated again

Excellent point, Bob. All my life I've heard how overrated Ryan was because of the Ks and no-hitters but lackluster numbers otherwise. Those people do have a point, but he was still an above-average pitcher for more than 20 years with the occasional lights-out performance. Al hit it on the head: good pitcher with HOF credentials, but not one of the all-time greats.

 

Jeter over A-Rod would be a laughable choice. The only thing that Jeter is better at is banging models. Important, yes, but not enough to outweigh the on-the-field stuff.

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I think everyone has jumped on the Nolan Ryan is overrated bandwagon to the point that he might be underrated again

Jeter over A-Rod would be a laughable choice. The only thing that A-Rod is better at is banging models. Important,yes, but not enough to outweigh the on-the-field stuff.

 

I think you mean Jeter is better, since Jeter banged Mariah and A-Rod is with Madonna.

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Starters:

PG: Magic Johnson

SG: Michael Jordan

SF: Larry Bird

PF: Bill Russell

C: Shaquille O’Neal

 

Reserves:

PG: Oscar Robertson

SG: Kobe Bryant

SG: Jerry West

SF: Julius Erving

PF: Tim Duncan

C: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

C: Hakeem Olajuwon

 

Coach: Phil Jackson

 

Hate to leave Isiah off, but 3 point guards seemed like overkill.

 

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I think everyone has jumped on the Nolan Ryan is overrated bandwagon to the point that he might be underrated again

Excellent point, Bob. All my life I've heard how overrated Ryan was because of the Ks and no-hitters but lackluster numbers otherwise. Those people do have a point, but he was still an above-average pitcher for more than 20 years with the occasional lights-out performance. Al hit it on the head: good pitcher with HOF credentials, but not one of the all-time greats.

 

So who are we, as TSMers, collectively calling the best pitcher ever? Walter Johnson?

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Guest Smues
3B: Mike Schmidt

So how much of a homer would I be if I tried to argue for Chipper over Mike? Mike has OPS+ by 2 points, and Chipper has him in average, OBP, and slugging. I'm sure Mike was a better fielder (actually have no idea how he was in the field, but I'll just assume) but Chipper also has the advantage of being a switch hitter.

 

So how insane am I?

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I think everyone has jumped on the Nolan Ryan is overrated bandwagon to the point that he might be underrated again

Excellent point, Bob. All my life I've heard how overrated Ryan was because of the Ks and no-hitters but lackluster numbers otherwise. Those people do have a point, but he was still an above-average pitcher for more than 20 years with the occasional lights-out performance. Al hit it on the head: good pitcher with HOF credentials, but not one of the all-time greats.

 

So who are we, as TSMers, collectively calling the best pitcher ever? Walter Johnson?

 

My vote's for Mathewson.

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Julius Erving over Lebron? Really? I know he's young, but there hasn't been anyone like him to do what he's done at this age, except for maybe Kobe.

I actually had LeBron pegged in Erving's spot, but I changed my mind (part of it due to my biases, but whatever). LeBron would easily be on the roster if it was 15.

 

As for greatest pitcher ever, I think I'd have to go with Clemens as well (not taking into account the whole steroids thing and all).

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So how much of a homer would I be if I tried to argue for Chipper over Mike? Mike has OPS+ by 2 points, and Chipper has him in average, OBP, and slugging. I'm sure Mike was a better fielder (actually have no idea how he was in the field, but I'll just assume) but Chipper also has the advantage of being a switch hitter.

 

So how insane am I?

 

Pretty insane. Schmidt was a more valuable hitter in context. Chipper led the NL once in batting average, once in OBP and once in OPS. Schmidt led three times in OBP, five times in slugging and five times in OPS. Schmidt at one point led the league in OPS four years in a stretch of five. On top of being the best hitter in the NL, Schmidt won ten gold gloves. I think you can make a case for Chipper #2, but Schmidt is pretty clear cut.

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Here is my football starting roster

 

Starting roster:

 

OFFENSE -

 

QB: Dan Marino

HB: Jim Brown

FB: Lorenzo Neal

WR: Jerry Rice

WR: Cris Carter

TE: Tony Gonzalez

OT: Willie Roaf

OT: Anthony Muñoz

OG: Bruce Matthews

OG: John Hannah

C: Jim Langer

 

DEFENSE -

DE: Bruce Smith

DE: Deacon Jones

DT: Merlin Olsen

DT: Joe Greene

LB: Lawrence Taylor

LB: Ray Lewis

LB: Jack Ham

CB: Mel Blount

CB: Deion Sanders

FS: Larry Wilson

SS: Ronnie Lott

 

K: Morten Anderson

P: Ray Guy

KR/PR: Brian Mitchell

 

Coach: Don Shula

Offensive Coordinator: Dan Reeves

Defensive Coordinator: Dick LeBeau

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Frank Thomas over Albert Pujols is pretty funny.

Look at the first half of their careers. Frank Thomas from 1990-1997 was one of the greatest pure hitters of all time. I think Pujols will have a better career, but this is a merit list, not speculative.

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How about greatest living fighters at every weight? Can only be named once...

 

Heavyweight: Muhammad Ali

Cruiserweight: Evander Holyfield

Light Heavyweight: Bob Foster

Super Middleweight: Nigel Benn

Middleweight: Marvin Hagler

Light Middleweight: Wilfred Benitez

Welterweight: Sugar Ray Leonard

Junior Welterweight: Julio Cesar Chavez

Lightweight: Roberto Duran

Super Featherweight: Manny Pacquiao

Featherweight: Alexis Arguello

Super Bantamweight: Wilfredo Gomez

Bantamweight: Eder Jofre

Super Flyweight: Johnny Tapia (that guy was fun to watch)

Flyweight: There really aren't any. Can't rate what you can't watch.

Light Flyweight: Humberto Gonzalez

Minimumweight: Ricardo Lopez

 

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How about greatest living fighters at every weight? Can only be named once...

 

Heavyweight: Muhammad Ali

Cruiserweight: Evander Holyfield

Light Heavyweight: Bob Foster

Super Middleweight: Nigel Benn

Middleweight: Marvin Hagler

Light Middleweight: Wilfred Benitez

Welterweight: Sugar Ray Leonard

Junior Welterweight: Julio Cesar Chavez

Lightweight: Roberto Duran

Super Featherweight: Manny Pacquiao

Featherweight: Alexis Arguello

Super Bantamweight: Wilfredo Gomez

Bantamweight: Eder Jofre

Super Flyweight: Johnny Tapia (that guy was fun to watch)

Flyweight: There really aren't any. Can't rate what you can't watch.

Light Flyweight: Humberto Gonzalez

Minimumweight: Ricardo Lopez

 

No Sugar Ray Robinson? No Pretty Boy Floyd? No Roy Jones Jr?

 

Robinson fought 202 fights, winning 175 of them. Boxing back then probably wasn't as technically sound as it is today, but I still think he's the greatest boxer of all time. Even Ali said it too.

 

Mayweather is an unlikeable fuckface, but the man brings it on fight night. Undefeated in his entire career. Beating De La Hoya, and ending Hatton's own undefeated streak.

 

Roy Jones Jr. was really something special in his prime. I know he's kind of fell off the wagon as of late, but he also won the Middleweight, Super Middleweight, Light Heavyweight, and Heavyweight championships. He had a pretty impressive unbeaten record as well.

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Robinson's dead. I couldn't do a list in which I named all fighters, dead or alive.

 

Floyd can't be rated in any one weight class, but compared to the fighters I listed in some weight classes, he compares really well when looking at it on those terms. But except for Super Featherweight, it was four or five fights and then move up. At least one of those fights each time was against somebody not too great.

 

Roy, eh, he fought Toney, an overweight Vinny Paz, and a bunch of bums at super middleweight. If they had fought, I'm positive Foster would've won.

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Robinson's dead. I couldn't do a list in which I named all fighters, dead or alive.

 

Floyd can't be rated in any one weight class, but compared to the fighters I listed in some weight classes, he compares really well when looking at it on those terms. But except for Super Featherweight, it was four or five fights and then move up. At least one of those fights each time was against somebody not too great.

 

Roy, eh, he fought Toney, an overweight Vinny Paz, and a bunch of bums at super middleweight. If they had fought, I'm positive Foster would've won.

 

 

Forgot all about the fact that they had to be alive. My B. It's sad too because I visit this thread quite often now, and apparently I don't see the word "living".

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Heavyweight: Muhammad Ali

Crusierweight: Evander Holyfield

Light Heavyweight: Michael Spinks

Super Middleweight: Roy Jones Jr.

Middleweight: Bernard Hopkins

Light Middleweight: Terry Norris

Welterweight: Sugar Ray Leonard

Light Welterweight: Aaron Pryor

Lightweight: Pernell Whitaker

Super Featherweight: Julio César Chávez

Featherweight: Azumah Nelson

Super Bantamweight: Wilfredo Gomez

Bantamweight: Carlos Zarate

Super Flyweight: Khaosai Galaxy

Flyweight: Mark Johnson

Light Flyweight: Michael Carbajal

Minimumweight: Ricardo Lopez

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Frank Thomas over Albert Pujols is pretty funny.

Look at the first half of their careers. Frank Thomas from 1990-1997 was one of the greatest pure hitters of all time. I think Pujols will have a better career, but this is a merit list, not speculative.

 

I can agree with that argument, but there are so many more statistics these days that Pujols seems to prosper in, OPS being the main one.

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NBA:

 

Starters

PG. Chris Paul

SG. Michael Jordan

SF. Lebron James

PF. Kevin Garnett

C. Dwight Howard

 

Reserves

PG. Steve Nash

SG. Reggie Miller

SF. Scottie Pippen

PF. Tim Duncan

C. Shaq

 

Larry Bird and Magic Johnson filling out the roster. Phil Jackson as coach.

 

I'm guessing that you are a younger guy, as your list reflects that.

 

My NBA team would be:

 

Starters

PG. Magic Johnson

SG. Michael Jordan

SF. Larry Bird

PF. Tim Duncan

C. Bill Russell

 

Reserves

PG. Isiah Thomas

SG. Kobe

SF. LeBron James

SF. Scottie Pippen

PF. Karl Malone

PF. Kevin Garnett

C. Shaq

 

Leaving Olajuwon off hurts, but I think overall I'd like to have Shaq as the back up center.

 

Everyone leaving Isiah off their lists is criminal. Chris Paul may get there someday, but he's not in Zeke's league yet.

 

 

Yeah, I'm 21 so I didn't get to actually see a lot of these great players play. I do think theres a popular misconception that past players are automatically better than present players. I don't think it would be a stretch to call Lebron one of the top 3 greatest players of all time just based on what he's done in 4 years.

 

There are probably better choices than Dwight Howard for my starting center, but just seeing how he's played this season kind of impaired my judgement a little bit. Shaq is most certainly a more dominating presence, but Howard is certainly more athletic and really something special too.

 

Good list though. I chose Reggie Miller over Kobe just for the sheer fact that Reggie Miller made threes all day long. Kobe is the all around better ball player, but just watching Miller in the 90's when I was a kid made that enough for me to pick him.

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I'll do a hockey one, and I tried to do the best with positions and have been throwing different ideas and combinations.

 

Top line.

 

Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemiuex and Gordie Howe.

 

Second line.

 

Sidney Crosby, Phil Esposito and Glenn Anderson

 

Checking Line

 

Pavel Datsyuk, Bob Gainey and Claude Lemieux (I'm gonna get flack for Lemieux)

 

Fourth Line (just throwing names out here)

 

Alexander Ovechkin, Bobby Hull, Yvan Cournyver

 

Defence:

 

Serge Savard, Bobby Orr

Paul Coffey, Nicklas Lidstrom

Larry Robinson, Dennis Potvin

 

Goalies

 

Dominik Hasek

Ken Dryden

Martin Brodeur

 

Coach

 

Scotty Bowman

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