Pledge of Allegiance declared unconstitutional

[Guest Spicy McHaggis]

It's a man-made institution, and it must take its share of the blame when the men who follow it to the point of blind zeal commit all manners of atrocities in its name.

 

Agreed.

[Guest GenerationNever]

Well, at least removing the Pledge will give our children more freedom to choose and stop making Christianity the main-stream religion. Therefore, they will be more able and less pressured to find their own beliefs.

[Guest DrTom]

"Therefore, they will be more able and less pressured to find their own beliefs."

 

You presume that saying "under God" forces them to become Christians. I think the bigger issue with the Pledge is having the freest country in the world forcing people to swear fealty to its flag, not the supposed religious implications of a simple clause.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

If people want to enjoy the guarantees of justice and liberty that come with being citizens of the freest country in the world, they absolutely should have to swear fealty to its flag.

[Guest EricMM]

I really don't think that the founding fathers ever used the word fealty at all. I think they were more in favor of a place where no one person INCLUDING the govt was powerful enough to push people around or tell them what to do. Thats why we can have guns so if the people in Washington go loco, we can oust them. Of course these days I don't think we could but that was the POINT.

 

Anyways swearing fealty to the flag is not part of America. We pay our taxes, so we should reap the benefit of said taxes. But we don't have to follow anything blindly.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Of course we don't have to follow anything blindly. But an American citizen should be loyal to the principles on which America is founded, and she should be willing to defend them against all enemies. There's nothing unjust or unreasonably coercive in requiring citizens to pledge allegiance to their country.

[Guest Spicy McHaggis]

Exactly.

[Guest EricMM]

I suppose I'm just quibbling over words. I mean pledging alligence is cool because you're just saying "hey, America, I live in you, you are my state of choice, and I will support you." vs. swearing fealty which I see as "America you are my master and I have to do as you say or I'm a bad person."

 

See thats where I disagree.

[Guest Spicy McHaggis]

And that is an excellent point. However, I don't think that content is contained in the pledge.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Spicy, the fact of the matter is Christians have caused many wars and killed many people for following religions other than their own. How you can deny that is beyond me. Man himself wasn't the cause for the bloodshed and loss of life because it was SPECIFICALLY the Christians who started the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the mass murder of Protestants (or was it Lutherans?).

 

First of all, Lutherans are Protestants.

 

The Crusades were not started by the Church. It started as a result of Muslim attacks on Byzantium. After their horrific defeat at Manzikert in 1071, the Byzantines were going to be destroyed so they appealed to Rome for help. Rome initiated the Crusades in order to protect Byzantium (and as a result Europe) from the Turks. They needed to use Jerusalem for motivation to get people to go. The leaders of the First Crusade, really could have cared less about saving Christianity, they were more interested in carving out a peace of the Holy Land for their own personal gain. Most of them (Robert of Normandy is probably the most famous), were having problems at home and needed a war to help boost their positions.

 

The other Crusades were similar. They were either fought for profit, defence, or personal reasons.

 

Very few wars in history have been fought over religion. Usually there is an ulterior motive, and religion is just used an excuse. Religion or no religion, the wars (or persecutions) would have occurred anyways.

[Guest goodhelmet]

It is already illegal to force a person to say "under God" or the Pledge. Why make something that a lot of people enjoy or don't care about illegal to make a small minority happy? I think 90% of Americans beleive in God (I'm not one of them and I don't haev any problem with the pledge) so why should 10% control what 90% can or can't do? I thought this was a Democracy.

10% do control what the majority think. they're called the wealthy.

 

silly rabbit, you didn't really think we live in a true democracy, did you?

(do not be offended by the silly rabbit comment, it's a trix commercial, not flaming)

[Guest EricMM]

No no Goodhelmet, we as Americans elect the president! Because anyone can become president. Right?

 

Oh.. no...

 

This liberal crap brought to you by a so called socialist right? Whatever, I see it as truth.

[Guest GenerationNever]

Freedom is a gift, and a gift that comes with strings attached is no gift at all.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

The only true freedom is anarchy.

 

There always needs to be a strong snese of order, or the dumb will ruin everything. That's not to say that freedom isn't a good thing, just that their needs to be some control.