TNA Epics

[TheFranchise 0]

Here in England.

 

Friday nights on Bravo.

 

Apparently Mick Foley hosts it.

 

Do you guys over the pond have this too?

[RedJed 0]

I wish we had it in the states since it is basically a Best of TNA show, akin to UFC Unleashed or something. Guess Kurt Angle is going to be hosting it also, besides Foley.

 

Also, some other news about it.....from Meltzer

 

The new TNA Epics TV show debuts this coming Friday night in the U.K. on Bravo at 10 p.m. It'll air clips from old TNA events, including a lot of stuff from the days in Nashville. So it goes head-to-head in that country with Smackdown.

 

-----Perhaps sooner or later TNA could talk Spike into airing this show weekly, I think it would be a nice addition to the product on that channel. The first years in Nashville were more good than bad most weeks when they did the pay per views on Wednesday nights.

[TheFranchise 0]

Hmm.. I'll give it a watch and tell you what I think.

[RedJed 0]

Hmm.. I'll give it a watch and tell you what I think.

 

Yeah, I'd love to hear how they will do the show, what would be cool is if they went in order and aired a condensed version of the first TNA ppv, for example, for the first episode. Kind of like a history of TNA thing.

[TheFranchise 0]

There's no synposis for it yet on my Sky but that's not uncommon for a show six days away. I hope one week we get to see the Unbreakable three way match with Joe/Daniels/AJ. I have only seen it twice, and they were ages ago. At the time, I remember calling it the greatest match i've ever seen.

[TheFranchise 0]

[TheFranchise 0]

Show starts in just over half an hour. I'll give an ongoing review of it.

[TheFranchise 0]

TNA Epics: Episode 1.

 

 

 

We're started off with a clip of Skipper doing the headscissors in a cage. It's the one where he walks across the cage and flies off with a 'Rana.

 

Foley's hosting.

 

Apparently, tonights episode is dedicated to the cage matches.

 

We're starting with Turning Points AMW vs Triple X match.

 

Representing xXx is Skipper and Daniels.

[TheFranchise 0]

Match thoughts:

 

This cage is ridiculous. A camera angle from outside means the view is totally unacceptable.

It also reminds me how much better AMW were than the current Beer Money. My opinion only, of course, but I don't rate Roode at all. I much prefer Widcat Chris Harris from a few years ago to partner Storm.

 

Very poor camera work too. Looking back, TNA's production values have moved on a long way.

[TheFranchise 0]

10.07 and we've hit an advert already.

 

They should have picked a better opening match for the opening show.

 

 

[TheFranchise 0]

10.13 and we are back!

 

Harris, still handcuffed to the cage.. And the key to the handcuffs has just somehow appeared in the middle of the ring on a piece of string.

 

That was a strange development. And Harris is loose! It's like a hot tag! The interesting thing about this is the first half of the match was a normal tag in kind of match, whereas the last half of this match has turned into a tornado tag match.

 

...

 

Harris is wearing the crimson mask now. So is Daniels.

 

Prime Time does his walking 'Rana across the cage.. And while it was a thing of beauty, we saw it earlier in the show, and it seems this whole very average match was put on just to showcase this one move. Which we already saw earlier.

 

The 'Tower Of Doom' - a four person suplex one on top of another. This is definately a spot monkey showcase match. A match i've never seen actually, I should really get some of the earlier TNA stuff.

 

The crowd are chanting 'Best Match Ever' - They're delusional.

 

Daniels is now handcuffed.. I wonder where the next key will fall from?

 

AMW win with their version of the powerplex.

 

Foley puts over Skipper. Break again at 10.22.

[TheFranchise 0]

Interesting note: We just had an advert for the actual TNA Epics show that we're watching. Right in the middle of its own advert.

 

And we are back at 10.27, our next match is Bound For Glory's 2006 match between LAX and AJ Styles/Christopher Daniels. Styles and Daniels are YOUR NWA Tag-Team Champions. Konnan is on the outside. We're in a better cage now.

 

Right in the middle of the match, we've just cut to a current TNA music video of its wrestlers. Odd moment too.

 

For the second match in a row, Chris Daniels is bleeding. ABDULLAH THE BUTCHER REFERENCE.

 

AJ hits another sweet move, this time a springboard inverted DDT, followed by the unfortunately named Pele. AJ Styles digs right into Homicides head into the blood while Mike Tenay screams "I LOVE IT".

 

AJ gets some serious hangtime with a cross body splash from the top of the cage onto Hernandez.

 

SUPERMEX~! to the top of the cage. What's the big man going to do?

BIG SPLASH.. MISSED. Thought Hernandez was going to bust out the 450 there.

 

There's.. a coat hanger in the ring. He's choking him with the coat hanger Tenay!

 

Gringo killer from Homicide and we've got new NWA Tag-Team Champions!

 

Foley calls that one 'brutal' - I think he's trying to be smart. Foley puts brutality over high flying. From the preview, the next match, and last match of the night, will involve Christian Cage. We head for yet another break at 10.44.

[TheFranchise 0]

We're back at 10.48 with 12 minutes of airtime left and our 'main event' is Rhyno and Christian Cage wrestling in an iMPACT! cage match.

 

Oh, and the cage is topped off with barbed wire. Tenay tells us that there are weapons too but I don't see them. Donald Ronald West informs us that you have to ask for a weapon. Perhaps he's telling the fans. I wonder if this is TNA taking advantage of Christian's current popularity in WWE/ECW by featuring him in their main bout?

 

Amazingly, the first two matches were pure uncut.

 

But the main event? Two minutes in, there's a flash and all of a sudden Christian is covered in blood and the barbed wire is cut.

 

There appears to be a straight jacket in the ring. Rhyno apparently used it earlier, but we didn't see that.

 

Rhyno is now helpless in the corner. Christian has asked, and has received, two steel chairs. Rhyno has somehow freed himself from a straight jacket. Okay. The Detroit native has now got a chair and is about to deliver a concerto.. Christian too smart though and moves out of the way. The current ECW Champion was just put face first through two set-up'd chairs.

 

The sad thing about this main event is that it looks like it could have been the best match of the three shown tonight. And we didn't get to see all of it. Rhyno gored Christian Cage right through the cage.

 

Take THAT WWF 1999 St. Valentines Day Massacre.

 

Foley puts over Rhyno to end the show at 10.56.

 

 

 

Final thoughts:

 

Usually a show starts off great and gets worse over time.. See: WCW Thunder, WWF Heat.

 

If that's the case with this show, we're in deep lots of trouble for future shows.

 

Great idea in principal, terrible show in execution.

 

Show Results:

 

America's Most Wanted d. Triple X

LAX d. AJ Styles/Christopher Daniels

Christian Cage d. Rhyno.

[TheFranchise 0]

Anybody watching the show tonight?

[LuckyLopez 0]

Wait, so did you not like the matches or was it the format and extras that you hated? Because I LOVE those first two matches. The LAX vs AJ/Daniels feud was one of my favorite in recent memory. Christian/Rhino was from some special Impact. Either their first primetime show or their first live show. Whichever it was I remember it being a solid show but they tried to cram a LOT into it and nothing ever really clicked as a result. The cage match was entertaining if memory serves me correctly but nothing to be upset you didn't see in full. There are definitely plenty of better cage matches in TNA's history to choose from and the theory that they were showcasing Christian doesn't seem unreasonable.

[TheFranchise 0]

From what I remember last week, I thought they'd have been better with a huge super special match to kick the series off. I guess I was just expecting more from the first show hosted by Mick Foley.

 

It was decent to watch but nothing that i'd go out of my way to watch. I'll see what tonight holds.

[LuckyLopez 0]

Yeah, but you seemed to dislike the matches themselves which surprised me. You called the AMW/XXX match "average" and called the fans delusional when that was widely considered at the time a great match and one of the matches that made TNA worthwhile. Of course a great part of that had to do with this being the blowoff to a nearly 2 YEAR feud filled with great matches, that this was the rematch to the first TNA cage match which was widely considered a MOTY contender, and that the stipulation on this match (which went unmentioned on the show as best as I can remember) was that the losers would have to break up.

 

And you seemed to suggest that the LAX match was "brutal" in a bad way. Which again, strikes me as odd because I loved that match and it was right in the middle of the period when LAX were one of the hottest things in wrestling and AJ/Daniels were having tremendous match after tremendous match. Again, perhaps its a match that loses something without context because LAX were just red hot at the time and I remember some people actually suggesting they might be TNA's "nWo" if played right. And along with AJ/Daniels and AMW they were in the middle of what more or less amounts to TNA's last great run for the tag division before a LONG run of mediocrity.

 

I just watched. The format/layout of the show could definitely use work. It felt very thrown together and not up to par with TNA's usual production. It really felt like they took 3 matches, a quick Foley stand up, and some voiceovers and threw it all together. I can't help but wonder if they're being lazy considering the show's only airing in the UK. I would think they'd clean it up if it was airing on Spike in the US.

 

Just to address one of your questions/complaints, the key in the opening match didn't appear out of nowhere. Daniels was carrying with him and when Storm laid him out he dropped it in the center of the ring. While I can't necessarily blame you for tuning West and Tenay out but they were actually making mention of it prior to him losing the key. I think they may have cut out a chunk of that match during the commercial but I'm not sure.

 

The Christian/Rhino match had some kind of weird stipulation for the weapons that I can't recall. I think they had wrestled in a pole match on an earlier Impact to win the right to specific weapons which the refs would then give them. It was weird. Again, missing context. Along with that the match was kind of in a weird place because Christian was undefeated in TNA at the time and hyping it pretty heavily, but at the same time this was more or less the blowoff to a long feud and Rhino kind of had to win it. That's why they booked it with the gore through the cage so Rhino walked away having got his revenge on Christian but Christian was able to continue boasting that he was undefeated.

 

I thought the show was ok but nothing special. I liked the first too matches a lot but if you didn't I can see where the show would be a big disappointment. Like I said, the whole thing felt very thrown together to me and that's not good but I watched a few good matches from TNA's past that I enjoyed so it worked well enough for me. The one thing I think they could really stand to add would be a quick setup for the matches to give them context. Maybe some highlights or quick interviews from the wrestlers (or the ones still in TNA) or just Tenay and West. Just something to give the matches context because those were 3 matches that were all significant parts of very brutal feuds and yet they were more or less presented as just matches. And the XXX/AMW match had the huge stipulation of them breaking up that I don't think even got mentioned.

[TheFranchise 0]

Ah, I didn't catch where the key came from. Thanks for clearing that one up. The problem was, in my eyes of course, the match with AMW/XXX being the blow off to a 2 year fued full of great matches, is that I didn't know that. I wasn't a big TNA fan at that time and like a lot of other people catching TNA for the first time, wouldn't know why it was significant. Which brings me to another point that I was trying (and failing, because I re-read and it didn't make it clear) to make, the first show should have been a great way to introduce new fans to the product, they have so much material to use. Something along the lines of a Sting vs Jarrett match, or the Angle vs Joe cage match would have been perfect.

 

Again with LAX, I wasn't really focused on TNA at the time (I'd catch the occasional match that was recommended to me) but for a one off match, it didn't really *mean* much. Please don't get the idea that i'm trying to argue with you just for the sake of arguing, the last few years i've *really* wanted TNA to take that next step, every week i've constantly thought iMPACT! was the better wrestling show (now that SmackDown! has become better, it's a coin toss) but back then, my opinion of TNA was very low. Being used to WWE standard production, though, as you touched on, TNA's older production values made the show seem second rate.

 

The one thing we can agree on though, is that we both thought the show was okay with nothing special. That's what bugged me more than anything, because there is so much potential for a show such as this. Could use an extra half an hour though just to make the matches 100% complete.

 

The one thing I think they could really stand to add would be a quick setup for the matches to give them context. Maybe some highlights or quick interviews from the wrestlers (or the ones still in TNA) or just Tenay and West. Just something to give the matches context because those were 3 matches that were all significant parts of very brutal feuds and yet they were more or less presented as just matches. And the XXX/AMW match had the huge stipulation of them breaking up that I don't think even got mentioned.

 

Agreed 100%.

[TheFranchise 0]

TNA Epics - 5/22/2009

 

Mick Foley tells us tonight its the best of the X-Division!

 

First match is a double elimination match to crown the new champ. Here comes AJ STYLES!!!! He's.. BORN IN THE UUU SSSSSSSS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. I loved this damn music. Styles looks very different here.

 

From Mexico City... Psychosis without a mask. I don't recall him taking it off, but hey. Tenay tells us he's a former WCW Cruiserweight champion. Good going Mike. I like Psychosis.

 

The third person.. It's Low-Ki. This man has always looked the same. This match promises to be a good one.

 

Hey it's former world champion Jerry Lynn! It appears we're going to have a double elimination match with 4 people. Two people have started the match and the other two are on the floor. Tenay, tell us how it works!

 

It's interesting seeing TNA in a four corner ring again. The production values are better for this match. STYLES CLASH!

 

So Psychosis is one defeat down, but now goes to the outside. Watching this match, and with Ki now in WWE's development, i'd love to see Low Ki and Tyson Kidd go at it.

[TheFranchise 0]

Is that.. RICKY THE DRAGON STEAMBOAT!!!!!!! as one of the refs? I didn't know that. Damn. This being the best of the X-Division, my hopes for Samoa Joe vs Daniels vs AJ Styles has come back. I love that damn match.

 

Apparently Psychosis was eliminated during the break but we weren't told. Low Ki eliminated which means we're down to two. I suppose this is a fitting match to crown the first ever X-Division champion. This match blows away all of last weeks matches. Definately a huge improvement so far, but with a show with classic X-Division matches, you can't really complain, they have so much quality work to choose from. Good show TNA.

 

Jesus, Jerry Lynn just hit a SWEET jumping DDT. Styles counters another move into a DDT of his own, more of a neckbreaker, one of the best moves i've seen in a while. RUNNING POWERBOMB!! Shades of Mike Awesome! Styles Clash, which mean the next fall wins. Hey, that IS Ricky Steamboat!

 

This match is from June 2002, by the way. Big near fall for Lynn. Fans are literally standing to see this. JESUS. What a brainbuster from Lynn!! Guys, if you haven't seen this match (like I hadn't) make sure you check it out. It's a cross between a spot monkey match and a wrestling match and the ratio is 100% right. Styles needs to go back to the short tights too. There's something about his look with the long tights that makes him look less of a superstar. This look from 2002 suits him very well.

 

Corkscrew legdrop from AJ and he wins.

 

Winner and new NWA:TNA X-Division Champion.. AJ Styles!

 

Great, great match.

 

****1/2.

[TheFranchise 0]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

They're showing the Unbreakable match!! God I haven't seen this in AGES.

 

Joe vs AJ vs Daniels.

 

TNA Epics, you've made a fan of me.

 

AJ picks up the win and wins his second X-Division title of the evening, 5th in all at this point.

 

Cracking match.

 

*****

 

Only two matches tonight but they were both awesome, awesome matches.

 

Good job TNA, tonight was 100000000000000000000000000000000% better than last week.

 

I can't see them topping this next week.

[LuckyLopez 0]

Ah, I didn't catch where the key came from. Thanks for clearing that one up. The problem was, in my eyes of course, the match with AMW/XXX being the blow off to a 2 year fued full of great matches, is that I didn't know that. I wasn't a big TNA fan at that time and like a lot of other people catching TNA for the first time, wouldn't know why it was significant. Which brings me to another point that I was trying (and failing, because I re-read and it didn't make it clear) to make, the first show should have been a great way to introduce new fans to the product, they have so much material to use. Something along the lines of a Sting vs Jarrett match, or the Angle vs Joe cage match would have been perfect.

I think TNA was probably trying to put its best foot forward. I think TNA's always been proud of 3 things. (1) The X Division, (2) The early years Tag division, and (3) the faces that have come through. The first two really are TNA's biggest success stories and the "six sides of steel" is another one they're very proud of. So I'm not surprised we got a pair of tag matches that SHOULD have been a bigger deal if they had presented them properly. As for the singles match, I can understand why they didn't do Jarrett/Sting (since it isn't much to talk about) or Joe/Angle (since while I loved it it was oddly paced and a lot of people didn't care for it) but Christian/Rhino was a very strange choice given how little that has to do with the product. My guess is TNA figures that if you're watching Epics you're already aware of Impact and watching or not watching. A decent Jarrett/Sting match or good Joe/Angle match won't win you over and if you gave Epics a chance one assumes you gave Impact a chance. But I don't know.

 

Who knows? Maybe there's a "Joe vs Angle" or individual show for either guy upcoming and the match was held back for that reason? Realistically maybe they used a throw away match because it was a throw away match and didn't fit into a larger theme? After all they're going to burn through basic themes like "steel cage matches" and "X Division" pretty quick and they'll have to find some other ideas.

 

Please don't get the idea that i'm trying to argue with you just for the sake of arguing,

Not at all. I understand where you're coming from. All the context was ripped out of those matches by just showing them with no background and Foley did very little to add anything to them besides "BRUTAL MATCH!" Just the sort of videos that WWE does on PPVs or that TNA does online fairly often could really make the matches mean something. Instead you have no idea that AMW and XXX have feuded for 2 years and the loser breaks up in this nor that its a rematch of one of TNA's biggest matches ever, you have no idea that AJ and Daniels recently united after a long standing feud (with Joe) and knocked off AMW and were now being attacked by the upstart LAX who would win their first titles in the company, or that Christian and Rhino had a long and bitter feud based on their real life relationship and Rhino's sense of betrayal and that this is a match Rhino wanted to finally get his revenge on Christian. None of that was presented to the audience and anyone who didn't watch them the first time or just doesn't remember all the details is left with no story to the match.

 

I remember for awhile WWE Heat used to do something like this where every week they'd show some big match like TLC I or Foley/Taker HIAC and the participants and other people would sit around talking about the match and what led to it complete with highlights and clips. THAT's what I think TNA should do with Epics even if it means cutting the show down to 2 matches a week. Taking 20 minutes to not just show a big match but to tell the story of the match might be more entertaining.

[LuckyLopez 0]

Is that.. RICKY THE DRAGON STEAMBOAT!!!!!!! as one of the refs? I didn't know that. Damn. This being the best of the X-Division, my hopes for Samoa Joe vs Daniels vs AJ Styles has come back. I love that damn match.

Steamboat was one of the early authority figures in TNA. I think he made a couple of early appearances to promote the X Division and hype AJ Styles as a future star and then they brought him back to get control of the company when Jarrett and others were running roughshod. The big thing I remember him doing was that when Ron Killings first became the Truth and spent weeks complaining about the racism in wrestling he confronted Steamboat about it saying that he more than anyone should know what a glass ceiling there was for guys like them. And Steamboat actually conceded that Killings had some points and then basically said "You want an opportunity? All you have to do is ask." He booked a world title match the next week and Killings upset Shamrock to become the World Champ. The promo between the two was awesome and Killings basically became a star in TNA over the course of those two weeks.

[LuckyLopez 0]

From Mexico City... Psychosis without a mask. I don't recall him taking it off, but hey.

Hey lost in Mexico to Rey and then soon after lost it in WCW to Billy Kidman. He didn't have it when he was in WWE with the Mexicools either. Someone else wears the mask now.

 

EDIT: I really didn't mean to triple post. My apologies.

[TheFranchise 0]

I would love to watch some early TNA stuff, the Nashville days. I didn't become a proper fan until they went to Monthly PPVs, I see glimpses of brilliance. I remember certain incidents really putting me off, though. I remember Jeff Jarrett vs (I think) Raven, where Jarrett took some 4 people (or so) finishing moves, while handcuffed, and all bloodied up, and still came back to beat Raven. Clean.

 

That was the time frame where they started calling him Triple J.

 

I must admit, though, Jarrett has really stepped out of the light the last few years (with the obvious reason) and even when he's come back, I could happily buy him in three or four main events on PPV.

 

It was such a pleasure watching the main event tonight. I will be the first person to admit, that, for whatever reason, I can't *watch* a full 20 minute wrestling match. I'll have it on and do something else at the same time, like read or play on my PC, or hell, that was a reason I made my Fantasy game, for some reason or other I just get a little bored watching wrestling for long periods. But tonights main event, for the first time in a very long time, I sat back and I just watched it from bell to bell.

 

I'll tell you something, four years ago Joe looked a LOT more motivated. Best in the world at that time by a mile.

[TheFranchise 0]

From Mexico City... Psychosis without a mask. I don't recall him taking it off, but hey.

Hey lost in Mexico to Rey and then soon after lost it in WCW to Billy Kidman. He didn't have it when he was in WWE with the Mexicools either. Someone else wears the mask now.

 

EDIT: I really didn't mean to triple post. My apologies.

 

Might as well post in bits like I have done. When there's only one person posting in a thread, might as well space it out. I am going to assume Mike isn't too bothered about all the extra posts right now.

[LuckyLopez 0]

Yeah, Jarrett vs Raven was the big match TNA built to that they screwed up bad and it soured a LOT of people on TNA. Raven had Sandman, New Jack, Saturn, and Justin Credible helping him and beating down Jarrett and he still won. Mind you, I think it gets overblown a LITTLE because in reality the ECW guys left, Raven was forced to uncuff Jarrett in order to pin him, and then Sabu attacked Raven allowing Jarrett to hit the stroke and win. At least I think that's how it happened. Don't get me wrong, it WAS bad booking and Jarrett DID end up looking like Superman but there was actually a portion of the match after the cuffs and 4 guys that made the pin KIND of make sense. But not booking wise, because really... that was a horrible screw up.

 

I'm a long time TNA fan and I'll defend them plenty but they've never known when to pull the trigger on a big win, turn, moment, or whatever. Their timing has always sucked.

[RedJed 0]

I'm a long time TNA fan and I'll defend them plenty but they've never known when to pull the trigger on a big win, turn, moment, or whatever. Their timing has always sucked.

 

Yeah, looking back, the whole Raven deal was just the start of it.

 

The trend seemed to continue with Truth, who got the title way far too soon at first-although it was still a fresh idea to come from the very early days of the company, and then the second time around, got the title out of nowhere when nobody expected it, and then lost it back to Jarrett not more than a few weeks later.

 

Then of course you had Monty Brown, who they really dropped the ball on and never even ended up giving him the belt at all after many legitimately strong teases of such.

 

Jeff Hardy also probably should have been given a run when he first showed up in the company, but the Jarrett effect once again arrived strong.

 

Styles world title runs have been hit or miss.

 

Let's just not even go there with Joe, we all know the answer there too.

 

Anyway doing the first X division title match ever and then following that with easily the best X Division (and TNA) match ever, now that's a strong highlight show.

[TheFranchise 0]

I can't remember the circumstances, but I remember Rhyno winning the title when more than one other person was the logical or favourite choice.

[RedJed 0]

I can't remember the circumstances, but I remember Rhyno winning the title when more than one other person was the logical or favourite choice.

 

Ahhh, Rhyno, forgot about him. He was never penciled in to win the title in the first place, but fell into it by one of those times where Nash mysteriously got injured right before his big title match with Jarrett at the first Bound for Glory event. To send the fans home happy with a big moment, they had Rhino win Monster's Ball, a Gauntlet match, and then beat Jarrett as well to win the title. Jarrett won the title back within just a few weeks time, if I recall correctly.