Donnie Darko wonderings

[Guest J*ingus]

Okay, to put it simply, what the FUcK was this movie about? Mulholland Drive made more sense than this. And this is only for those who have indeed seen the movie, as it does give away some stuff, so:

 

-What were Donnie's visions of Frank, exactly? Psychic precognitions of the future? Warnings sent back through time by Donnie in the future? Schizophrenic hallucinations? Anyone have any idea?

 

-How did skinny wimp Donnie sink that axe all the way into a "solid rock" statue, anyway?

 

-The kept mentioning Donnie's "past", alluding that it was not nice, but never said what happened.

 

-Why did Donnie and the girl go to the old woman's house at the end? What were the bad boys doing there?

 

-Being that it was intercut with shots of a child pornographer's house burning down, did the dance team's somewhat sexualized dance routine make anyone else uncomfortable?

 

-I guess the girlfriend and the mom waving to each other at the end meant that they remembered what had happened? But apparently nobody else did?

 

-And what the hell did the ending mean, anyway? I interpreted it as Donnie somehow caused a wormhole back through time in order to save the lives of his girlfriend, Frank, and all the people on the plane, even though it cost him his own life. At least, that's what I think it meant. Anyone else have any other theories?

 

It was an interesting flick, it took me a while to even recognize Drew Barrymore and Patrick Swayze, but didn't even come close to solving all the riddles it brought up.

[Guest Incandenza]

I saw the movie months ago, so I'm a little hazy on it, though I do remember the final half-hour completely falling apart for me.

 

So here's another question: Here you have Gretchen coming to see Donnie at the party when, as far as she knows, her mother is dead. She is suitably bummed, but, after a magical session of lovemaking with Donnie, she seemed to have totally forgotten her potentially dead mother. WTF?

[Guest TUS_02]

-And what the hell did the ending mean, anyway? I interpreted it as Donnie somehow caused a wormhole back through time in order to save the lives of his girlfriend, Frank, and all the people on the plane, even though it cost him his own life. At least, that's what I think it meant. Anyone else have any other theories?

 

I was watching the deleted scenes and I turned the commentary on one of them for whatever reason, and the director brought up divine intervention. He said something of the lines of that he didn't want religion to be brought into it, but that devine intervention was a main focal point. I think what you said hit the nail on the head, and what I was thinking.

[Guest J*ingus]

"Divine intervention"!? Talk about your copouts, that's literally a deus ex machina. And he never even hinted at any sort of divine intervention in the movie, that makes no sense.

[Guest C.H.U.D.]

Spoilers

 

I think the entire film was a dream Darko had before he died. But who knows, much like Mulholland Drive, it's left for you to decide.

[Guest El Satanico]

I think it's just a movie that gives no real answers and means whatever the viewer gets from it. It's also a movie that needs repeated viewing, which i will do whenever i finally buy it.

 

I personally believe that the majority of the movie was real. What i think the ending meant is that he did figure out how "go back in time to change things". However his time traveling to stop Gretchen from dying didn't give him the chance to personally stop it. Instead he was killed in replacement of Gretchen.

 

He sacrifaced himself so that she could live. That combined with all the god talk shows that it had some sort of religous meaning.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

Okay, to put it simply, what the FUcK was this movie about?

Hey Jingus, I've always kind of admired your line by line dissections of someone's argument and/or questions, so I'm going to try it from this because I've seen the film (alas, on VHS, lacking of any director's commentary or any special features' influence) and I think I know something about it. Of course I really know nothing and these are just my confused opinions.

 

What were Donnie's visions of Frank, exactly?  Psychic precognitions of the future?  Warnings sent back through time by Donnie in the future?  Schizophrenic hallucinations?  Anyone have any idea?

 

Donnie is, indeed, a schizo, which would, indeed make Frank a schizophrenic hallucination, so it seems, especially concerning the coersion to do bad deeds and the incessant talk of time travel. What I didn't understand about all this is where the "real person" Frank came from at the end. I don't think they were psychic precognitions or warnings from the future because since Donnie dies there really IS no future.

 

How did skinny wimp Donnie sink that axe all the way into a "solid rock" statue, anyway?

 

Shhh! You're only supposed to come up with logical plot criticism like that when making fun of a "bad" horror or sci-fi film, not an "accomplished piece of art" like Donnie Darko!

 

The kept mentioning Donnie's "past", alluding that it was not nice, but never said what happened.

 

Ay... I don't remember anything specific mentioned other than that he was a schizo. This bothered me, not that he was a schizo, but that he supposedly did all these bad things but the audience never knows what any of them are. This in and of itself is also not a bad thing, except Donnie is really portrayed as too nice of a guy to ever do anything bad, which kinda makes it hard to use your imagination on that one.

 

Why did Donnie and the girl go to the old woman's house at the end?  What were the bad boys doing there?

 

I think Donnie and Gretchen go to the old woman's house to ask about time travel, because Frank was from the future, and they probably wanted to go back in time to try and find some way to stop the world from ending... it's really a mess. The "bad boys" were there because drunken bored suburban kids raise hell wherever they can. It's not like they have anything else to do...

 

Being that it was intercut with shots of a child pornographer's house burning down, did the dance team's somewhat sexualized dance routine make anyone else uncomfortable?

 

I actually never even noticed that connection until now... I was wondering what the point of the child pornographer's house burning scenes were. I thought the dance competition thing was just an excuse to get the mom out of the house. It was certainly a bit too sexual for the '80s though, at least for that age group, that's for sure.

 

I guess the girlfriend and the mom waving to each other at the end meant that they remembered what had happened?  But apparently nobody else did?

 

I don't think it was related to anything at all. I think it was just a bit of kindness on Gretchen's part, in stopping by. I doubt she knew what was going on, but she just figured to say "Hi" to a total stranger in passing to try and make her day. People in the suburbs do this too. If I remember correctly, the mom was a little hesitant in waving back, which would make sense because of her grief and some girl she doesn't know (did Donnie tell his parents that he was going out with her? I don't think so but I could be wrong) waving to her, but she had to be cordial and wave back. Subtle suburban nuances... there aren't many, but that's one of 'em.

 

And what the hell did the ending mean, anyway?  I interpreted it as Donnie somehow caused a wormhole back through time in order to save the lives of his girlfriend, Frank, and all the people on the plane, even though it cost him his own life.  At least, that's what I think it meant.  Anyone else have any other theories?

 

The hell if I know. The ending is REALLY messy... it tries to tie everything together, but in fact, since Donnie really died, that means his future (i.e. the rest of the movie), never happened in "real life". However, it doesn't make sense that he would, from the future, go back in time and try and warn himself for something that really should've never happened. You could interpret this to mean that Donnie was supposed to die, hence the end of the world, but I don't believe anyone is "supposed" to die so I don't buy it. Plus, there's no logical reason for him going back in time, other than to die... he was schizophrenic, not suicidal. No matter how you look at it, there are too many plot holes to ignore. The "dream" suggestion by C.H.U.D. is probably the one with the least plot holes that works best, but "dream" endings are (in my opinion) the cheapest, worst cop-out endings ever.

 

The film's premise was quite interesting, and it actually was a pretty good "artsy" sort of film until the last 20 minutes or so, where the lack of any comprehension or plot sensibility just totally frustrated me. I don't plan on watching it again, because for the good "artsy" stuff I could:

a) pick up the score

B) watch any other movie with lots of "innovative/cutting edge" editing techniques

c) try and make my own bunny costume, and it'd probably come out just as freaky looking as Frank

d) rent Harvey, take acid, watch Harvey while under influence of acid... it'll basically be the same plot

 

Oh yea, I thought Drew Barrymore sucked in it. I'm sorry, but she was painfully overacting and her character did nothing to advance the plot or any of the characters. She probably only gave herself a role to satisfy some ego thing that she had to have a part in a nu-arthouse picture because Cameron Diaz had and dammit, she's better than Cameron Diaz!

 

In the end though, a lot of people seem to like it, and even though I don't, I guess that's all that matters... right? It doesn't have to make sense if it's popular!

[Guest Retro Rob]

I just picked up the DVD last week. I watched it today and decided to dig through the old threads to see what everyone thought of the ending. While reading some of the posts in this thread, something struck.

 

The movie that Donnie missed, while he was buring down the house was "The Last Temptation of Christ". If you think about it, that act was the last time Donnie did something that directly harmed someone else. From there Gretchen, Frank, and others are either killed, about to be killed, or have their reputations hurt. Donnie, now knowing how time travel works, goes back in time to sacrifice himself so everyone else could live ala Jesus Christ, which would tie back to how he missed the movie "The Last Temptation of Christ" because Frank tempted him to burn down the house.

 

I also believe that the entire thing could have been a dream he had before the engine ended up killing him, but my original theory ties in better with the looks on all the character's faces at the end of the film.

[Guest godthedog]

watch any other movie with lots of "innovative/cutting edge" editing techniques

 

in that case, you'd want to check out 'sweet sweetback's baad asssss song', 'the lady from shanghai', 'flowers of shanghai', or 'breathless'.

 

but where was the innovative editing in 'donnie darko'?

[Guest IDrinkRatsMilk]

I got the impression that Frank was a sinister character, who returned to the past after his death to orchestrate the saving of his own life. This is just all off the cuff musings I had, I never thought to hard about it, but it seemed like Frank was really the focal point of the movie (he was in the center of all the characters on the dvd cover)

[Guest The Amazing Rando]

1 -What were Donnie's visions of Frank, exactly?  Psychic precognitions of the future?  Warnings sent back through time by Donnie in the future?  Schizophrenic hallucinations?  Anyone have any idea? 

 

2 -How did skinny wimp Donnie sink that axe all the way into a "solid rock" statue, anyway? 

 

3 -The kept mentioning Donnie's "past", alluding that it was not nice, but never said what happened. 

 

4 -Why did Donnie and the girl go to the old woman's house at the end?  What were the bad boys doing there? 

 

5 -Being that it was intercut with shots of a child pornographer's house burning down, did the dance team's somewhat sexualized dance routine make anyone else uncomfortable? 

 

6 -I guess the girlfriend and the mom waving to each other at the end meant that they remembered what had happened?  But apparently nobody else did? 

 

7-And what the hell did the ending mean, anyway?  I interpreted it as Donnie somehow caused a wormhole back through time in order to save the lives of his girlfriend, Frank, and all the people on the plane, even though it cost him his own life.  At least, that's what I think it meant.  Anyone else have any other theories? 

1. I would not call Donnie a schizo, just mildly crazy. His visions of Frank (according to the writer/director) are from the future, sent back through time through the wormhole and are only able to be seen by Donnie when he is in a sleepwalking state. For those that haven't seen the DVD...his medications were placebos.

 

2. The director explains that in this sleepwalking state Donnie has been given supernatural powers by "them"(whatever/whoever caused all this to happen) that include super strength, speed, and other various things. Hence why he is able to do that and able to run and burn the guys house down and get back before the movie was over.

 

3. I'm guessing he was just a depressed child, leading to the medications and therapy.

 

4. Why...because according to Grandma Death's book...in the "tangent universe" they were in (this universe is everything after the lights come on in Donnie's room at the beginning) everyone is being manipulated to hopefully have Donnie make the right decision. EVERYONE. Gretchen and Frank could be called "The Manipulated Dead" as they are dead by the end of the film, whilst everyone else can be called "The Manipulated Living" ...and their is Donnie ... who is the person that must transport the engine back through time to fix everything... which is what they hope would happen or space time would collapse (seeing as how the engine would have had no way to get back in time and thus disrupt time). So they go to the house because something inside of Donnie tells him that he needs to go there...his mind/body are being manipulated by "them" to get him to make the right decision and sacrifice himself (every living creature dies alone) to save everyone else.

 

5. It was supposed to freak you out...and all you knew was that Donnie was burning down Jim Cunningham's house while the girl's performed...it's only after you find out that he was a child pornographer does the whole thing seem slightly freaky...even though Cunningham was not directly involved with the dancers...he and the coach were good friends.

 

6. Yes...everyone involved remembered SOMETHING...hence why Frank touches his eye and Cunningham cries and the Coach/gym teacher looks all freaked out ...they know something happened.

 

And another thing... Frank was Donnie's sister's boyfriend (hence: Frank was here...went to get beer" ...he was at the party in his freaky rabbit suit but Donnie didn't seem him because he was upstairs fucking)

 

7. Yes...Donnie manipulated the engine using those supernatural powers from the cliff where he was in the beginning (could have been pre-manipulation by "them" ...having him scout the area in his sleepwalking state because they know he will need the knowledge later)

 

Donnie gave up his life to save the world. Donnie's "last temptation" was that he could have just as easily let the world end rather than simply sacrifice himself.

 

 

I love Deleted Scenes/Director Commentary.

 

 

Now...why would "they" do this to Donnie... the director leaves that one open for interpretation.

[Guest Retro Rob]

Good thing I brought this thread back. Rando, that was the best explanation I have heard so far, and although it wasn't really different, you were a lot more clear.

 

However, why did "they" have Donnie sleepwalking when the engine first crashed into his room? If he never left the room, wouldn't everything in the world have been right?

[Guest The Amazing Rando]

see... that is what the director says he "leaves for interpretation"

 

 

My theory is:

 

1) Had he just stayed in the room and ignored Frank... then the world would have ended in 28:06:42:12 because there would have been no one to send the engine back in time (thus causing the rift in the Space-Time Continuum and unraveling it...ala BTTF)

 

2) Why did they do this to him in the first place... because maybe through his depression he had been looking for "the answer" ...the "why was he here?" the "what is Donnie Darko's destiny?"

 

His destiny is to save the world from destruction by manipulated an engine into the past to kill him, thus providing enlightenment for those around him and saving the rest of the world.

[Guest CoreyLazarus416]

-What were Donnie's visions of Frank, exactly? Psychic precognitions of the future? Warnings sent back through time by Donnie in the future? Schizophrenic hallucinations? Anyone have any idea?

I'd say pre-cognition, personally. Sometimes people with pre-cognitory powers claim that somebody else told them what would happen.

 

-How did skinny wimp Donnie sink that axe all the way into a "solid rock" statue, anyway? 

With the right amount of force and momentum, and at the right angle, even a damn plastic straw could probably go into a solid rock statue.

 

-The kept mentioning Donnie's "past", alluding that it was not nice, but never said what happened. 

They mention it. Well, he does to Gretchen, anyways. He said he was playing with fire once when he was younger and burned down an old abandoned house. He probably said somebody told him to do it, so they got him counseling.

 

-Why did Donnie and the girl go to the old woman's house at the end?  What were the bad boys doing there? 

Donnie, Gretchen, and Donnie's two friends went there because Donnie had some sort of vision or epiphany of some sort. He went inside because he saw the cellar door (think back to the after-school meeting between Donnie and the English teacher before the teacher, Drew Barrymore, left). The bad boys? They were robbing the place. Donnie's father (or mother) said something about Grandma Death being insanely rich one night over dinner.

 

-Being that it was intercut with shots of a child pornographer's house burning down, did the dance team's somewhat sexualized dance routine make anyone else uncomfortable? 

Yes, and it was purposeful.

 

-I guess the girlfriend and the mom waving to each other at the end meant that they remembered what had happened?  But apparently nobody else did? 

Gretchen saw a horrible scene: a mother crying over her son's death. So, she did what she thought would be a nice gesture, and waved hello, slightly smiling. Donnie's mother, being polite, waved back.

 

-And what the hell did the ending mean, anyway?  I interpreted it as Donnie somehow caused a wormhole back through time in order to save the lives of his girlfriend, Frank, and all the people on the plane, even though it cost him his own life.  At least, that's what I think it meant.  Anyone else have any other theories? 

I personally interpreted it as Donnie's pre-cognitive powers warning him of everything that would happen were he to sleepwalk again tonight. The wormhole was going to happen regardless, but if Donnie had survived, Gretchen and Frank would have died in the future. Since Gretchen had never met Donnie, her death has been avoided/postponed. Same for Frank.

 

RE: The Last Temptation Of Christ

This would be an interesting note had Donnie not taken Gretchen to see The Evil Dead. However, the other movie playing in the theater was The Last Temptation Of Christ, so you get points for effort.

[Guest 5_moves_of_doom]

1.) What were Donnie's visions of Frank, exactly? Psychic precognitions of the future? Warnings sent back through time by Donnie in the future? Schizophrenic hallucinations? Anyone have any idea?

 

2.) How did skinny wimp Donnie sink that axe all the way into a "solid rock" statue, anyway?

 

3.) The kept mentioning Donnie's "past", alluding that it was not nice, but never said what happened.

 

4.) Why did Donnie and the girl go to the old woman's house at the end? What were the bad boys doing there?

 

5.) Being that it was intercut with shots of a child pornographer's house burning down, did the dance team's somewhat sexualized dance routine make anyone else uncomfortable?

 

6.) I guess the girlfriend and the mom waving to each other at the end meant that they remembered what had happened? But apparently nobody else did?

 

7.) And what the hell did the ending mean, anyway? I interpreted it as Donnie somehow caused a wormhole back through time in order to save the lives of his girlfriend, Frank, and all the people on the plane, even though it cost him his own life. At least, that's what I think it meant. Anyone else have any other theories?

I own this movie on DVD, but haven't seen it in quite a while... I DO remember going threw it quite throuroughly though, and weeding out any and all plot holes... it really does work itself out, though some thing might not make sense until you see it a few times. I dunno, I don't remember all the details, but I remember at the end of all my thinking, the movie made perfect sense to me. It's not all THAT confusing, anyway. Oh, and the "Last Temptation of Christ" thing is right on, thought it was also meant to be ironic, seeing as how it was a double feature along with "The Evil Dead."

 

1.) Could be any of those three. For this one, you can really just have your own opinion. The fact is that he was schizo, and he WAS having visions of the future. But then again, he had visions of the future when he saw the "spears" too, so it's not too out-there.

 

2.) ...Not too important. Sure, it doesn't make sense, but the part that *I* didn't like was how they tested kids for their handwriting... what's to say that someone's handwriting with a pencil would be the same as it was if they were chopping into stone with an axe?

 

3.) I think they mentioned him burning down a school or something. It's not the end of the World though... do we NEED to know? We know he's a schizo, we know he has emotional problems that make him prone to doing bad things. That's all we need to know.

 

4.) I forget why they went... I think Donnie had to ask her some questions about time travel, since it was supposedly the end of the World. It's not like he could've done it the next day, you know. And the kids were there to steal the old woman's diamonds or something. The Dad or Mom mentions "a bunch of rowdy kids always trying to steal from her" at some point in the film.

 

5.) Yes, it did. ...Uh, so? Watching a guy's ear get chopped off and part of his face sliced to pieces in "Reservoir Dogs" made me uncomfortable too. I love the film.

 

6.) They waved. It's common courtesy to wave to people in the suburbs, as someone else mentioned... They have no clue about what happened, and at that point the girlfriend didn't even know who Donnie was until the little kid told her.

 

7.) I forget all the details, but yes, he did go back in time to save the lives of his friends. The engine went back in time as well.

 

 

 

Anyhow, I didn't find it all that confusing... but I did love the movie, so eh, whatever.

[Guest Retro Rob]

RE: The Last Temptation Of Christ

This would be an interesting note had Donnie not taken Gretchen to see The Evil Dead. However, the other movie playing in the theater was The Last Temptation Of Christ, so you get points for effort.

I believe it was a Halloween Double Feature, so wouldn't they technically have seen both movies?

[Guest Retro Rob]

-Why did Donnie and the girl go to the old woman's house at the end? What were the bad boys doing there?

Something during the Halloween party triggered in his mind that the world would be ending at 6AM. Probably the clock, when it rang at midnight. He went to Grandma Death's house because she was the only person who could answer all of his questions, when in reality he already knew the answers, which was demonstrated at the end.

 

During the commentary, the director mentions how Grandman Death and all her old nun friends had been "waiting" for Donnie to come and leave her that letter. I really don't see how that fits in with the plot, so I don't include it in my theory.

[Guest The Amazing Rando]

yes... she was waiting for the letter from Donnie...

 

she would walk out into the road and look out...most likely toward the cliff at the beginning/end or just maybe in a delusional state of mind.

 

She too was part of the "Manipulated Living" but she knew this. She gave Donnie the "every living thing dies alone" message that made him begin to think about death and what it means. Had she not been standing there he wouldn't have gotten the message.

 

 

The theme of the movie has really become a theme in my life...

 

 

Every little thing...no matter how small...can affect the world and the way the world lives.

[Guest Big_Jay101]

Go to friday the 13th forums they have a whole thread abouty ti and give good answers they know there shit on thsi movie

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

I enjoy this movie, but it ain't that great. A lot of its appeal was deadened for me when I learned that it wasn't supposed to be an attempt at vague light allegory...but actually about time travel.

 

[spoilers]Watching the director's commentary and deleted scenes reveal a treasure trove of stupidity unseen in eons. I took the movie as a pretty interesting flight of fancy with the core of it being Donnie's condition of visions/schizophrenia/maladjustment, whatever you want to call it. Much of the movie's quandaries are about the improper means taken to treat it, through ineffective therapy or really any of the things going on in his life...and then the director and Jake Gyllenhall start babbling about time warps. Yikes. [/spoilers]

 

I still watch this any time someone wants to or it happens to be on, because the cast is charming, the soundtrack is great, and the lighting is kinda awesome at several intervals.