Discuss your viewpoints #1~!

[Guest EricMM]

First and foremost, this is not a flame bait. I have never flamed anyone, I don't think I've ever been flamed by a stranger, and I don't particularly want to inspire arguments. That being said, I see some things on this board that I find frankly ... incomprehensable. Like, I find them painfully wrong. Ahem. But thats because I am only one person, and I think I have lived a relatively one sided life. I AM very liberal, I don't particularly WANT to be moderate. But understanding is key. So that's why I posted this thread, hopefully there will be more (post some if you like) so that people with different views can discuss topics that they don't understand the other side's views. I'll do the liberal view if I can...

 

ANYWAYS.

 

Oil, coal, gas, gasoline. SUV's, cafe standards, and OPEC. America lives and breathes and eats and shits fossil fuels. We import massive amounts of it and we send it up into our skies. It controls our foreign policies and our presidencies. We poke holes in our landscape, rip the tops of mountains, and build pipes across the continent. We use more every year.

 

I find this stupid. I find ANWAR stupid. I find SUV's a waste, I find the fact that our power STILL comes from fossil fuels terrifying. I know that they are not renewable resources, I know that we cannot continue putting carbon from the ground into the skies, and I know that I would like to change the situation. I find it sad that our reaction to foreign conflict difffers based upon the amount of oil in the area.

 

I would love if we could lower the amount of use in this country. I would love the government to tax to holy hell out of oil, and put the money into research for something new. If people were paying 4 dollars (or something like that) for every gallon, perhaps we would finally care that SUV's are wasteful and unecessary to own. In Europe people use smaller cars, more expensive gas, and they deal. However in America if we get to two dollars per gallon we're tapping our reserves.

 

Maybe this was a stupid topic, and maybe everyone agrees with me. But who here would actually defend the seemingly republican standpoint that more mining is key and renewable resources are unfeasible? There are ways, if we put a fraction of the money we put into the defense into research, we could tell the mideast to fuck themselves.

 

I seriously think that if we wanted to, in like 10 years we could find a renewable energy source, like perhaps becoming efficent enough to use ethanol or something like that.

 

Anyways, hopefully this will start a discussion and there will be others like it I guess I will talk about things like abortion, but if we could try in stay in realms that PERHAPS people MIGHT change their mind, a bit?

 

-Eric

[Guest Crazy Dan]

Have to agree with you on this one Eric... we are a nation addicted to oil. And what is funny is that we are going to run out of oil, sooner than later. And if we aren't prepared to deal with this up comming problem, we will be seriously in deep s*@#. I think that we need to start looking into cleaner, renewable sources of energy. Things like solar and wind are just to name a few. Raising the fuel economies of new cars, would definately reduce our need for oil. Heck, even looking into nuclear, even if it is my last ditch choice, would be better than simply relying on oil. And I know industry will whine and bitch about how this will ruin their business and such, but I don't care.

 

This is a problem that will not go away. Also, I feel that this push for drilling in the ANWAR will only bring a temporary relief to a long term problem. From my understanding there isn't that much oil up there to begin with, so all that we take out will only be good for a 1-3 year period at the most, and then we will be back to the same problems we had, only now we have ruined a ecosystem while trying to drill. (Of course this might not happen, but I have a feeling that something will go wrong, just look at some of the areas which have been fucked due to oil spilling. The Exxon Valdes and the oil spill off the Gallapogus (SP?) comes to mind)

 

As for SUV's. I can't stand these gas guzzlers. I can't stand how some people get these cars, and never once use them for 4X4 wheeling, which to me would be the only reason to get one in the first place. If people would stop buying these monstrosities, then that would reduce oil consumption as well. And for all of you who are thinking of buying a new car in the future, there are plenty of other "cool" cars out there that has better gas milage than SUV's, and cost less.

 

Also, another good reason to get away from oil is that then we can tell our so-called friends in the Middle East to go fuck themselves. It makes me angry that Saudi Arabia is the biggest two-face country we deal with and will ocntinue to deal with because we export oil from them. No more oil dependency, then the less we have to deal with these "religious-fanatical" nations. Less dependecy on oil means the less we have to get involved in the Middle East.

 

And there so many other things we can do to cut back on oil consumption. Many good ideas and technology which just needs to be looked into and developed. But if we don't do anything, and let the oil companies to continue hindering progress, so that their profit margin stays high, then this country will fall. And we won't fall because of some terrorist or anything like that, but because of our own reluctance to change.

[Guest RetroRob215]

I don't feel like writing an essay, but I agree 100%.

[Guest TJH]

The solution is Nuclear. It is clean, (no pollution) cheap, and there is stacks of it. Why people who claim to be pro environment oppose it baffles me.

As for waste. sell it to Russia and bury it in Siberia.

[Guest KoR Fungus]

Agreed about nuclear. In a fantasy world sometime, we might be able to find a way to produce infinate amounts of energy with no waste, but for the time being, nuclear's the way to go. It's efficient, inexpensive and the only drawback is waste, which I consider pretty insubstantial. What would you rather have, little bars of nuclear waste buried in various wastelands throughout the world, or the skies filled with polution from burning coal? Easy choice for me.

[Guest EricMM]

I suppose people fear the POTENTIAL damage of a nuke, we certainly don't need a chernobyn happening in Virginia. But I WILL concede that Nuke power is probably better than Fossil Fuels. But where would we put all the junk in the next 100 years?

 

I was expecting more people supporting oil hmm. How much do YOU want to pay at the pump to save the environment? 2 per gallon? 5?

 

And you never know about renewable sources, hopefully science will surprise us (because plutonium/uranium is also a non-renewable resourse TECHNICALLY)

 

-Eric

[Guest hardyz1]

Eric, I agree with pretty much everything, until...

 

If people were paying 4 dollars (or something like that) for every gallon, perhaps we would finally care that SUV's are wasteful and unecessary to own.

 

My car gets 32 miles per gallon. I refuse to pay such a high amount for gas because some dumbasses just have to have the biggest fucking thing on the road. I'm not made of money, you know.

 

Along these lines: Sometime in the next couple years we are getting a wind power generator since the wind is always blowing here, it seems. Someone told me that what energy it produces that we don't use, the electric company has to buy from us.

 

Regarding nuclear power, I like it, it's just that damned waste. Maybe we should make use of the moon. <insert queer looking smilie here>

[Guest J*ingus]

Hey, if we're going to use the billions of dollars it'll take to shoot it into space, we might as well go the full monty and chuck the waste into the sun.

[Guest EricMM]

Yes yes fine, but what if one of those rockets goes Challanger? What's THAT gonna do to the local environment? Nothing good I'm sure.

 

As to the gas comment, perhaps thats a bit much, but I stand by it. Common economic ecology says that you have to make polluting expensive for the consumer. I suppose the govt. could tax SUV's, but I think that the one time purchase price isn't really all that important for some people. Maybe an annual SUV tax? Or they specifically pay more at the pump? Something? How about you put in your Miles Per Gallon at the pump? Then you get taxed based on that? Hmmm?

 

-Eric

[Guest Spicy McHaggis]

We poke holes in our landscape, rip the tops of mountains, and build pipes across the continent.

 

Actually, we don't do this, and that's precisely why we're so dependent on OPEC.

 

From my understanding there isn't that much oil up there to begin with, so all that we take out will only be good for a 1-3 year period at the most, and then we will be back to the same problems we had, only now we have ruined a ecosystem while trying to drill.

 

I don't understand, with all the technology we have today, why people don't realize we're technologically sound enough to drill without disrupting ecosystems.

[Guest Ripper]

What until you have a family of five and start trying to fit them, the luggage and all for a family vacation in a fucking hundai, then talk about how useless SUV's are.

 

 

If you want to save on fossil fuels, there is one solutions...Bann all Nascar and racing events. From Drag racing to the indy 500, this pointless sport burns hundreds upons hundreds of gallons of fuel per event. At least people with SUVs are actually using them for something. What is the holy hell is the point of a bunch of guys driving around a circle 500 times???

[Guest EricMM]

If you need an SUV for a family trip, rent one. There are a million rental places that will give you one for a while and you would save so much money on gas for the rest of the year.

 

And there are a lot of people that own SUVs that aren't a) parents b ) married c) the only person in the family with an SUV!

 

I truly agree with you on the nascar thing. People can RUN for chrissakes

 

-Eric

[Guest J*ingus]

I don't get all the SUV hate. People who own them already ARE paying more money, since they buy more gas period, and a lot of that money goes to the gas tax.

[Guest Ripper]

I am a firm believer in if you can afford it, you have the god given right to get it. Should a family rent a SUV every morning to take the kids to school? If I am by myself and want a SUV, who is to say that I won't use all that space in the car. In a perfect world everyone would ride the bus, but thats not happening. So until the car companies stop felating the oil companies and make cars that can run without gasoline(and they can do it now, we all know it) you just have to deal with it.

[Guest NoCalMike]

S.U.V. Sports Utility Vehicle. So when did it become the yuppie's american dream/soccer mom's personal mission to own one. It is hilarious that people buy them, then have to have them bright and shiny in the driveway to show off a new status symbol. People did get around just fine with a family of 4 or 5 before SUVs, a large family is not some new thing. I am not really one to say someone can't have something, I just don't see the point. They were made for people that often go camping or off-roading, then suburbians took a liking to them, and now they are nothing more then driveway decoration. Ok enough on that onto the thread topic: ENERGY-

 

 

Well, I find it funny that the current administration thinks we have advanced enough technology to construct this "star wars" bullshit, yet when solar power is brought up to them, they suddenly act like we still live in the stone age and say, "we have to research this some more" Fact - there are people in Arizona using solar panels and have enough energy to run 3 homes. They collect so much energy from the sun that the power companies buy excess energy back from them. People, this is possible. Believe me, if we had people in the government that were interested in getting off the nipple of oil, then it WOULD HAPPEN TOMMOROW.

 

Some kid developed a car engine that could run as well as your standard Camry or Saturn etc....it required no gas what-so-ever....so what happened? GM offered the guy a billion dollars for the patents and now you can say GOODBYE to that. The technology is here and available IF the government wants to take action. Where are Mr. Bush's stocks, how did he make his fortune....?? OIL.....This is a problem with both the Dems and Repubs. I don't want to act like it is all of Bush's fault, but he certainly hasn't helped at all.

 

If I honestly thought that drilling in Alaska and off the coast of California was the ONLY answer to getting rid of the dependence of Mid-east oil, then I would gladly agree to it, but that just simply isn't the case. As long as we put people in the whitehouse that simply "pass the buck" then we will ALWAYS be dependent on oil.

[Guest NoCalMike]

Oh just to add one more point to my last post. Why do you think more and more people are buying foreign cars? Well I'd say because they are not interested in putting gas in their car 4 times a week. American car companies have the patents(sp?) to make more fuel efficient cars, but they are just sitting on them because it is all a big scam to go along with the oil-whores. Until people speak up, and act upon this, nothing will happen.

[Guest EricMM]

Ripper:

I am a firm believer in if you can afford it, you have the god given right to get it. Should a family rent a SUV every morning to take the kids to school? If I am by myself and want a SUV, who is to say that I won't use all that space in the car. In a perfect world everyone would ride the bus, but thats not happening. So until the car companies stop felating the oil companies and make cars that can run without gasoline(and they can do it now, we all know it) you just have to deal with it.

 

Yes, ok, we will all "deal with it" when people make the self rightous decision to damage the environment instead of ATTEMPT to stop the bleeding. Ripper me and my friends have NO problem fitting 5 in a very small car and going places. And we are not family. If SUV's had decent fuel efficency I would be GLAD if people used them, the space is nice. But the fact is that the more SUVs replace common cars, the more our problems will grow! And OH NO we should respect some prep ass kids in highschool who can get their parents to buy them a SUV, or some parents who feel that they should be the only survivors of every car accident, or peole who want to look good.

 

Your status symbol, fully used or not, is a waste. You COULD make do with a smaller car. Everyone COULD. People do it all the time. Just because you're rich in america doesn't give you the right to damage our present and our future, IMO.

 

Sorry but your post just seemed so stupidly self rightous. Like being a polluter is something to defend, period.

 

-Eric

[Guest Spicy McHaggis]

And you're not a polluter?

[Guest EricMM]

Of course I am. But I am not self-rightous about it, or defending it, or buying SUV's. I would never buy an SUV. I'd PROBABLY buy a hybrid

 

-Eric

[Guest NoCalMike]

Hybrids are becoming more popular every month. I am just waiting for the sales of Ford and GM to decline due to the technology being used in foreign cars. American car companies will start using more fuel effecient cars once people turn on them. It will be awhile, because the government oil-whores would like to pretend that such technology just doesn't exist. My friend's girlfriend's parents have some type of hybird car that either needs very little or no gas at all and I have heard great things about it. Looks like that is the future, unless GMC/Ford decide to try to buy off the patents.

[Guest Ripper]

"Your status symbol, fully used or not, is a waste. You COULD make do with a smaller car. Everyone COULD. People do it all the time. Just because you're rich in america doesn't give you the right to damage our present and our future, IMO.

 

Sorry but your post just seemed so stupidly self rightous. Like being a polluter is something to defend, period.

 

-Eric "

 

 

 

 

Well, you COULD live in the woods and eat bugs to live instead of supporting homes that pollute/destroy nature...but you don't do you. You are using a computer that will no doubt one day be thrown away and the lead from the moniter will pollute the earth. You COULD make due writing letters, or just calling people aimlessly and discussing you beliefs, but you don't. You use your computer and come to a message board. Every one pollutes...EVERYONE.

 

So you COULD squeeze in a car despite it being 1. easier 2. more comfortable for you to get a SUV...but if you can afford it, then do it. People work hard for a living and have earned the right to do with their money what they damn well please. You have no right to tell them what cars to get. If I don't want a station wagon when I have a family and would perfer something that I like looking at and it carries my family, I will get one.

 

If more people took mass transit or car pooled in those SUV's(that seat 5 comfortably ) that would help the environment alot more. If the car companies and America in general would stop acting like there is no alternative to oil, THAT would make things better. But telling people what they can and can not drive is ridiculous.

 

"or some parents who feel that they should be the only survivors of every car accident"

 

That is quite possible the most ignorant defense of your stance that you could possibly come up with. It is a BAD thing that the SUV drivers will survive car accidents. So, your stance is, get a smaller car and squeeze your family in it, and if you all DIE in a accident, at least you made about .0000000000000001 difference in the air pollution.

 

 

Talk to me about the alarmingly high amount of cars that have falsified emmisions stickers and they didn't really past. Talk to me about manufacturing companys that cause just as much air pollution. Talk to me about people not car pooling to work. Don't come at me with "SUV's are ruining the environment" because Clean Air has been a issue for over 30 years now, well before SUV's were popular.

[Guest NoCalMike]

I don't think anyone is suggesting, you shouldn't be allowed to drive and own an SUV, however I think what people like myself get frustrated with is the fact that car companies refuse to try and make more fuel effecient SUVs, when the technology is there. Also, the SUV buyers should also be demanding this if not for anything else, but having to pay $40 to fill up the tank 5 times a week. To use the argument, "If I can afford it, then it is my right to buy it" Well that just epitomizes that it is a status symbol.

 

I can care less personally, if someone wants to own an SUV, now yes I may get a good laugh at people who don't even use them for what was intended, but if they want to, then I am not going to start a picketline in their driveway.

[Guest EricMM]

I think NoCalMike kind of hit it on the head for me. I may (do) bitch about SUV's a lot, but thats because noone else seems to care. Like I said, it's not the size of the car that I care about, it's the Miles Per Gallon.

 

I guess I just think that the average person owning a SUV is more likely to change than the auto companies. I guess I feel the average person has a little more decency because they are not monetarily tied into one specific type of car, or oil, or the like.

 

And I KNOW I pollute, I said that. But when I throw this monitor away, I will see if I can find some sort of service to recycle it. I'm not sure if they exist, but I will try. It's like turning off the lights or using those energy efficent windows. It's really not a big deal but everything helps.

 

I just wish that car users saw that a few years of space and cargo room (at most 10?) will lead to possible starvation, flooding, or asthma (sp?) for their grandchildren.

 

-Eric

[Guest Ripper]

I said it before in this thread, that the car companies need to come off the technology and give the cars that require little to no gas...but I'm not holding my breath. How long do you think they have had cars that won't break down a year after the warrenty is up...but I doubt we will ever see them. Its a business and I refuse to blame the consumer because corporations aren't exactly giving them the choices. I don't think that you can honestly say that if a car the size and look(I'm sorry, but everyone has the right not to drive a ugly car...I mean they are spending 10's of thousands of dollars on it, it might as well be something they would like to look at) without polluting the environment was available, that peole wouldn't buy it. They can't stand around and wait for the car companies to stop being greedy pricks. They have families NOW.