Oh, He Did Not Just Go There

[Guest TheMikeSC]

eating what's likely to be the Democratic war drum in this year's elections, Al Gore blamed the nation's economic scandals — from Enron to WorldCom — last night on President Bush's economic policies.

 

"You see now what it means to have an administration that's that committed to fighting and working on behalf of the powerful, and letting the people of this country get the short end of the stick," Gore told more than 200 supporters at a Manhattan fund-raiser.

 

It was his strongest attack yet on Bush's economic policies and a preview of the likely Democratic strategy for November's elections.

 

"What we see now is a lack of confidence in our national economic policy, in the integrity of our accounting system, in the way government is being run," Gore told more than 200 supporters in Lot 61, a trendy Chelsea night spot.

 

The private companies, he said, "are not telling the truth about their future liabilities so they can shovel money out to executives at the top. That is exactly what the Bush-Cheney tax plan will do. They are misleading the country about the extent of the liabilities they are putting on us ... on you."

 

Gore also said the Securities and Exchange Commission isn't doing its job, and he called on its chairman, Harvey Pitt, to resign, suggesting Pitt is too cozy with captains of industry.>>>

 

 

 

OK, Al Gore is arguing that Bush's policies are responsible for the massive AND long-term improprieties that have befallen major corporations as of late?

 

Amazing that most of the problems were well underway long before Bush had any of his people in any positions of power.

 

I understand politics is about attacking perceived weaknesses---but this whole scandal tarnishes Clinton (and, thus, Gore) FAR more than it hurts GW.

-=Mike

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Gore's an intellectual, and thus absolutely hopeless in a campaign.

[Guest GenerationNever]

Eh, I don't like either of them.

[Guest Austin3164life]

Gore is 100x smarter than Bush, but I wouldn't vote for him to be president. George Dubya is one of the least intelligent and experienced presidents.....

[Guest EricMM]

Thats really a bunch of gunk. I mean I will rail on Bush any day of the week, every day of the week, but come on. Clinton has been the cause of just as much problems as Bush could. Bush hasn't been around nearly as long as Clinton was. Either way the republocrates are just stupid, thats why IIII voted for Nader. Yes. I did. To prove a point. I don't think that either party was liberal enough for me.

 

I only later found out about Nader's socialist tendancies.

 

-Eric

[Guest Vyce]

Beating what's likely to be the Democratic war drum in this year's elections, Al Gore blamed the nation's economic scandals — from Enron to WorldCom — last night on President Bush's economic policies.

 

Dems have it ridiculously easy.

 

The SEC is so damn weak and ineffective largely in part of the Clinton Administration, which hey! Gore was a part of.

 

But now, the shit's hitting the fan during Bush's presidency, so I guess he's too blame.

 

The sad thing is, there will be a lot of uninformed morons out there who will believe Gore.

 

I'm not a big fan of Bush, but I'd take him any day over Gore.

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

Funny how I remember the economy tanking during Clinton's waning days and while Gore was on his campaign stops...

 

I also loved his line about how he's not going to follow polls and consultants.

[Guest Spicy McHaggis]

George Dubya is one of the least intelligent and experienced presidents.....

 

I'm sorry, and how exactly can a president in the first year of his first term be expected to have more experience?

[Guest hardyz1]

Gore: Whiny asshead who continues to bitch despite not having any chance of winning in 2004

Bush: Rich oil boy who ran for Texas governor despite having no clue what a governor did

 

I blame 'em both. Just because. That's right, no facts or anything to back me up. Damn Republicrats!

[Guest TheMikeSC]

Gore is 100x smarter than Bush, but I wouldn't vote for him to be president. George Dubya is one of the least intelligent and experienced presidents..... >>>

 

 

Well, one of the two nearly failed out of seminary school and had to go to a journalism school instead.

 

I, of course, shan't mention names.

-=Mike

 

...That would be a little silly, no?

[Guest Dr. Wrestlingphysics]

Looking at it from the other side of the Atlantic, major events during a term of office are often credited to/blamed on the sitting government, but in these cases, Enron especially, I fail to see how corporate mismanagement could be blamed on economic policy of either party (and I hope MikeSC isn't implying that if the roles were reversed that the Republicans wouldn't try to blame the Democrats! )

[Guest Some Guy]

No they probably wouldn't. Did you hear any Republicans blaming Clinton/Gore for Global Crossing even though the connection between them and Global is far greater than that of Bush and Enron?

[Guest Dr. Wrestlingphysics]

No they probably wouldn't. Did you hear any Republicans blaming Clinton/Gore for Global Crossing even though the connection between them and Global is far greater than that of Bush and Enron?

I didn't hear any Republicans baming Clinton/Gore, because I didn't hear about Global Crossing ( I am in Britain). What was that about and when was it?

[Guest Spicy McHaggis]

I didn't hear any Republicans baming Clinton/Gore, because I didn't hear about Global Crossing...

That's precisely his point.

[Guest Dr. Wrestlingphysics]

I didn't hear any Republicans baming Clinton/Gore, because I didn't hear about Global Crossing...

That's precisely his point.

If you're trying to imply that the world at large hasn't heard about Global Crossing due to some Democrat cover-up, then the Republicans should have been smart enough to make use of it.

 

If you're implying that the world at large hasn't heard about Global Crossing because it was nowhere near as "big" as Enron, then the Democrats seem to be validated in using Enron/WorldCom against the Republicans.

 

Or what??

 

(I still don't know what Global Crossing's about)

[Guest Spicy McHaggis]

I'm saying that conservatives are more concerned with the important parts of an issue than mud-slinging and petty political games.

[Guest Some Guy]

Global Crossing was nearly as big as Enron, just not made a big deal out of by the GOP. The Dems are generally lower class, they still can't admit that they lost th efucking election last year.

[Guest Powerplay]

Gore is 100x smarter than Bush, but I wouldn't vote for him to be president. George Dubya is one of the least intelligent and experienced presidents..... >>>

 

 

Well, one of the two nearly failed out of seminary school and had to go to a journalism school instead.

 

I, of course, shan't mention names.

-=Mike

 

...That would be a little silly, no?

Gore failed because he didn't agree with his teacher on several of his own moral issues. So they just failed him outright. Bush got into HARVARD on a C average in high school. Hmmm, looks suspicious to me.......

 

They say he didn't have much experience for the office because he was only on his second term in elected office as Governor. Gore had been in Washington since the 80's. He was a Presidential contender in 88' (Back when he had an accent). He knows what shit means and how things get done.

 

Dems are not lower class, they are just as much people as Republicans are. They whined about winning the election because they had well over 500,000 more votes than the Republican party in the pres election. He has a right to be angry. If this had happened to the Republican party brimstone and hellfire would have engulfed Washington D.C.

 

And both sides do a fair share of mudslinging. That's what politics is all about these days. Otherwise we'd had a McCain-Brady election in 00'.

[Guest Some Guy]

First off McCain trashes the Pres who is from his OWN DAMN PARTY! So he does throw mud.

 

And no you most likely wouldn't have heard as much outrage. The GOP proved that they know how a President is elected in this country, while over a year later the Dems continue to act like sniveling juveniles with this "Re-elect Gore in 2004" shit. Were we supposed to throw out the Constitution because Gore didn't win, despite the fatc that he really, really wanted so bad? Oh yeah Campaign Finace shows the Left's disregard for the Constitution. I'm mean shit it's only a 200+ year old piece of paper. What does that have to do with anything?

[Guest J*ingus]

The GOP proved that they know how a President is elected in this country,

What's that supposed to mean? Of course they're not going to complain. They won!

[Guest Powerplay]

First off McCain trashes the Pres who is from his OWN DAMN PARTY! So he does throw mud.

 

And no you most likely wouldn't have heard as much outrage. The GOP proved that they know how a President is elected in this country, while over a year later the Dems continue to act like sniveling juveniles with this "Re-elect Gore in 2004" shit. Were we supposed to throw out the Constitution because Gore didn't win, despite the fatc that he really, really wanted so bad? Oh yeah Campaign Finace shows the Left's disregard for the Constitution. I'm mean shit it's only a 200+ year old piece of paper. What does that have to do with anything?

There were some seriously vicious stuff run against McCain in Michigan during the primaries. Not that Gore didn't do it to Bradley, but McCain campaigned on the issues, not Bush. I didn't see anything really smearing from McCain. What he is doing is not TRASHING, it is CRITICIZING. He doesn't say something that is blantently not true and try to scare people into voting for his thing. He is allowed to since he has his own brain and personality and is allowed stuff like his own opinion in the Consititution. Remember that document? God, you act like Dubya is God or something. Not EVERYONE likes the President in this country. People have the right to their own opinion, otherwise we'd be a pack of zombies. Jesus, if I acted like this to every Republican who talked bad about Clinton, I don't know how many people I would have ticked off. And don't whine about about McCain trashing your party. We have Zell Miller to deal with.

 

The GOP showed nothing accept they don't know how to pick a candidate at all. Gore came back in only a couple weeks to win the popular vote after being down by quite a number of points. They don't know how to elect one because a majority of people voted for Al Gore, not George W. Bush. They had to call on the Republican Supreme Court to install the President. I mean, had Bush said "Yeah, count the votes. I am positive I won so I have no fear of a recount." Al Gore would have looked horrible when they find out that he hadn't actually gotten the state. But he didn't. It was the dumbest thing they could have done because it looked like they were trying to steal the election from the candidate that GOT THE POPULAR VOTE!

 

Where the HELL do you get it that the Dems threw around the Constitution? They asked for a recount, which by state and federal law is totally legal in an election this close. Campaign Fianance is a LEFT THING? Both Republicans and Dems passed it in the Senate, so don't go there. It says that "If you want to run an add that says something blantantly untrue about someone that you must reveal who you really are." These ads are horrid; they are literally slander, which ISN'T allowed in the Constitution. I'm sure the Republicans will do fine without running fear ads just days before the election day. And both parties won't raise inordinate amounts of money through soft money loopholes. A great addition to this is to give political candidates free T.V. time. Take the money out of the equation.

[Guest Some Guy]

With McCain I was refering to his post 9/11 attempts to weaken his President's approva by criticising him at every turn in the war effort.

 

I have my issues with George W. Bush and I don't consider him "God." Just a better choice for Pres than Al Gore.

 

The nation wide popular vote has nothing to do with who becomes President. It is decided by an Electoral College. The winner of the popluar vote from states wins the Electoral Colege votes of that state. George Bush won more Electoral College votes than AL Gore therefore George Bush is the rightful President of the United States.

They did four recounts in Florida and Bush won them all, then "independent" (read liberal newpapers) did their own private recounts and Bush won all of them too. But you didn't hear that much about that did you? So what's the problem? Bush won, deal with it and hope that the Dems can send someone out who can beat him.

 

There's no loop holes for "soft money" in CFR? How about an exemption for Indian gaming money put in place by "Mr. we need to clean up the election process" John McCain himself. ANd who do you think recieves the most Indian Gaming money? If you guessed Arizona Senator John McCain you'd be right.

Freedom of speech isn't allowed in the Constitution? We must have read different documents.

 

 

Jingus there would have been some complaining if Bush lost but it would not have gone on this long.

[Guest J*ingus]

I do still think that this shows that the Electoral College needs a little amending. I mean, there have been no less than four presidential elections now in which the winner of the popular vote somehow lost the election. It just seems very anti-democracy that the guy who more people voted for didn't win.

[Guest Some Guy]

I agree with you that the Electoral College should probably be changed, however were we supposed to retroactively change the Constitution to make Al Gore President?

[Guest J*ingus]

Not at all. Bush won according to the rules, and the ex post facto clause of the Constitution would prohibit going back and changing that. I'm just saying that the rules themselves need some tweaking, to keep situations like this from occuring again.

[Guest Some Guy]

Good, I always thought you were level headed and you proved it. Other Bush haters can't seem to come to grips with reality. I don't mean that to come acroos in a bad way at all BTW.

[Guest DrTom]

"They don't know how to elect one because a majority of people voted for Al Gore, not George W. Bush."

 

For chrissakes, there are actually people who are STILL unclear about this? I mean, it was only twenty months ago and all. Good grief. As for your "point," please show me where it says the candidate who wins the popular vote wins the election.

 

"They had to call on the Republican Supreme Court to install the President."

 

No, they had to call on the Supreme Court to stop the Florida courts from countermanding their own election laws. Gore's strategy was basically to recount and recount until they found enough dangling chads, indentations, and voter intents for him to win. That's not how election law works. It's a shame it took the Supreme Court to tell Gore and his cronies that.

 

"Where the HELL do you get it that the Dems threw around the Constitution?"

 

Because that seems to be a popular hobby of theirs.

 

"They asked for a recount, which by state and federal law is totally legal in an election this close."

 

They were well within their rights to ask for a recount. *A* recount. Their happiness with the results was not guaranteed. Suddenly, the ballots became confusing, dangling chads became all the rage, some people were allegedly denied the right to vote, and those overseas military ballots (that conveniently don't support our guy) shouldn't be counted. Had the Dems actually approached the recount process fairly, maybe they wouldn't be so vilified for what happened. But they deserve every bit of scorn they get.

[Guest Powerplay]

Honestly, Bush could Nuke a country and his approval rating would be 86%. For him, 9/11 was the greatest moment in his administration. It came right in to save him when the dems were proving that his budget didn't work.

 

BOTH parties "throw away" the Constitution. No one is "innocent". Both parties intepret it so differently that each thinks the other is always in violation of it. Welcome to politics.

 

You came off REALLY strong for Dubya to me. Sorry if I inferred too much.

 

All news media is not "Liberal". Ever watch Fox News? Detroit News is the Conservative counterpart in to the Detroit Free Press here in Michigan. All media isn't out to get the GOP. That's just a piss-poor excuse to why the news doesn't favor you all the time. Deal with it. The news isn't always on our side, either.

 

I'm talking "Hand Count". He has a right to that. Eventually it was proven that he lost Florida fair and square. Everyone has to admit that. It has been shown. But during the recount process the recounts were stopped and started and stopped and started and stopped and started that no one could honestly prove who won. They never got through an actual hand count. Court cases stopped it so many times that it seemed like around thirty, but only one handcount ever was ordered. Don't fool yourself there. G.W. should have allowed a handcount and laughed when it came out his way. But he didn't. He backed himself into a corner and it ended up a huge mess. The Supreme Court did commendeer it. Whether they did it for better or for worse it doesn't matter now, 'cause we've had a president for two years.

 

Yes, I agree. He did win the Electoral college, fair and square. That decides the Presidency, no matter how many lawyers you have counting votes. That's life. Al Gore still has the right to feel cheated since he 1) Won the popular vote. 2) Lost Florida by only a handful of votes, and 3) Had he won Florida it would have changed the winner of the election. It's not like Al Gore was beaten out by 100 Electoral votes like Nixon was. He was beaten by 3 and only needed 1. Don't make it seem like there was an "overwhelming majority" for Bush. Al Gore really should come out for Election Voting Reform, like a standardized voting way and such (Take all the guesswork off) and get a National Holiday for Election day so as many people as possible can get out and vote. Because the autoworkers in my state (Michigan) got the day off put Gore safely over the top. We can't change the Electoral College, really. Nothing would be nearly as fair. Just have to deal with it.

 

The Constitution does protect free speech. But not blantant slander and libel. Neither do any of the 50 states in the Union. Those ads that are banned 50 days before an election are demigogual ads which tell outright lies to the population. I've seen ones that sad Gore wanted to raise gas prices to $4.50 a gallon, and others that said Bush was going to lower minimium wage to $2.50. These are total lies. They request that the ads tell the people where the funds for these are coming from, so they can't hide behind those stupid names like "Citizens for Keeping Gas Prices Down" and stuff. We find out that they are funded by the NRA, ACLU, Dems, GOP. Nothing in violation of the Constitiution. Plus, the Constitution was made when there was no real Campaign Financing like today. There weren't attack ads like there are today, either.

 

Oklahoma politicians would potentially benefit the most since they have more Native American Reservations than any other state. And what can the Native Americans want from us? We can't make any laws that affect them. Tribal government is law.

[Guest Some Guy]

Yes, I agree. He did win the Electoral college, fair and square. Al Gore still has the right to feel cheated since he 1) Won the popular vote. 2) Lost Florida by only a handful of votes, and 3) Had he won Florida it would have changed the winner of the election. It's not like Al Gore was beaten out by 100 votes like Nixon was. He was beaten by 3 and only needed 1. Don't make it seem like there was an "overwhelming majority" for Bush.

 

Why should he feel cheated if you admit that he lost the election fair and square.

 

Nixon was cheated out of the election by JFK's Mafia buddies in NJ and Illinois.

 

And I never said that Bush won by a landslide, I just said that he won.

 

He won with a higher % of the poular vote than Clinton did either time BTW.

[Guest Powerplay]

Yes, I agree. He did win the Electoral college, fair and square. Al Gore still has the right to feel cheated since he 1) Won the popular vote. 2) Lost Florida by only a handful of votes, and 3) Had he won Florida it would have changed the winner of the election. It's not like Al Gore was beaten out by 100 votes like Nixon was. He was beaten by 3 and only needed 1. Don't make it seem like there was an "overwhelming majority" for Bush.

 

Why should he feel cheated if you admit that he lost the election fair and square.

 

Nixon was cheated out of the election by JFK's Mafia buddies in NJ and Illinois.

 

And I never said that Bush won by a landslide, I just said that he won.

 

He won with a higher % of the poular vote than Clinton did either time BTW.

He can feel he was cheated. It doesn't help anything, but he has a legitimate reason to. He was within a vote of the Presidency and had it taken away from him.

 

Oh, yeah. NJ and Ill weren't worth a combined 100 electoral votes. He didn't have a chance either way. Mafia buddies? That's why Robert fought against Mafia involvement in the Teamsters Union so vehemetly. Nothing like backstabbing your allies.

 

Clinton had the Reform Party to run against. In 1992 and 1996, they took around 10% of the vote, even moreso in 1992. And that means Al Gore took a higher % of the popular vote than Clinton did also.

 

Hey, wanna call this a draw? Neither of us are going to change anyones opinion and it's getting late. *Offers hand*