Austin/HHH 2/3 falls match

[Guest thebigjig]

I got this idea from the Best of steve Austin thread, and I thought I would go ahead and ask for the opinion of others

 

I personally think it is HIGHLY overrated. I mean, it's a great match to a certain extent, but I honestly don't see how it was named as the match of the year

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

It IS overrated. But hey, an opinion is an opinion and all, ya know.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Because the competition all had poor endings.

 

Rock vs. Aust at Mania? McMahon interference that lasted like 5 minutes.

 

Austin vs. Angle at Summerslam? DQ lame finish.

 

I would have put Benoit vs. Austin over it...but you really don't hear anything about it anywhere but this board.

 

 

Plus...much like Hogan vs. Rock at this year WrestleMania (which some I've seen some people refer to as the match of the year because of how big it was) the match had tremendous heat a very nice buildup to it...and the entire match felt like an actual blowoff to the feud.

 

Whens the last time you saw that?

 

Anyway...thats why people call it the match of the year.

 

The fact that it went 40 minutes didn't hurt its chances either.

 

Of course if they had let Angle and Benoit go that long...forgetaboutit.

[Guest Nevermortal]

Didn't Angle & Benoit go 30 at Backlash & Judgment Day?

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Because the competition all had poor endings.

 

Rock vs. Aust at Mania? McMahon interference that lasted like 5 minutes.

 

Austin vs. Angle at Summerslam? DQ lame finish.

 

I would have put Benoit vs. Austin over it...but you really don't hear anything about it anywhere but this board.

 

 

Plus...much like Hogan vs. Rock at this year WrestleMania (which some I've seen some people refer to as the match of the year because of how big it was) the match had tremendous heat a very nice buildup to it...and the entire match felt like an actual blowoff to the feud.

 

Whens the last time you saw that?

 

Anyway...thats why people call it the match of the year.

 

The fact that it went 40 minutes didn't hurt its chances either.

 

Of course if they had let Angle and Benoit go that long...forgetaboutit.

I think I've belabored the point enough, but just because "it felt like a blow off" doesn't mean it was good. There was so much sloppy wrestling done in the name of storytelling here that at end of the day, there's very little to enjoy about it. Hunter's bumping, and that' about it. The rest is rubbish, as far as I'm concerned.

 

And after seeing Angle/Benoit go 30 minutes, I would be perfectly content never seeing them do it again, let alone go 40 minutes. But that's just me.

 

And in the early segment you're missing Benoit/Jericho Vs. Trips/Austin, which was the only thing to approach de-throwning Austin/Benoit as MOTY. No Way Out doesn't come close to that.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

They had a 30 minute match at Backlash that wasn't as good as it should have been...

 

But I think there is a difference between Iron Man matches and matches that just go for a long time.

 

I mean...you pretty much know when an Iron Man match will end.

 

It takes a little excitement and intrigue out for me.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

"I think I've belabored the point enough, but just because "it felt like a blow off" doesn't mean it was good. There was so much sloppy wrestling done in the name of storytelling here that at end of the day, there's very little to enjoy about it. Hunter's bumping, and that' about it. The rest is rubbish, as far as I'm concerned.

 

And after seeing Angle/Benoit go 30 minutes, I would be perfectly content never seeing them do it again, let alone go 40 minutes. But that's just me.

 

And in the early segment you're missing Benoit/Jericho Vs. Trips/Austin, which was the only thing to approach de-throwning Austin/Benoit as MOTY. No Way Out doesn't come close to that. "

 

 

 

The question was WHY DO SO MANY PEOPLE CALL IT THE MOTY.

 

I never said I did...I just answered the question.

[Guest bob_barron]

I think I've belabored the point enough, but just because "it felt like a blow off" doesn't mean it was good.

Well it can make a match more enjoyable when you feel like you're seeing all the hatred all the contempt for the other spill out in one fourty minute blood soaked match.

 

I've seen the mach many times and it still is a fantastic match. Austin murders Triple H from pillar to post and Triple H has to do anything he can to well not die. He even runs away twice.

 

The kicking out of the finishers in fall3 also adds to the awesomeness of the match.

 

I vote it as the MOTY.

[Guest Some Guy]

The match had a few blown spots at the begining and Austin was still getting back to form and HHH was God in the ring at the time. I think the match was overly praised because it was Austin's first great match after his injury. HHH and Austin stunk up the place at the Survivor Series just 4 months earlier, so the increase in quality was probably another reason why it was over rated.

 

I really like the match but the wrong guy went over IMO. HHH should haev jobbed to make Austin look like an even stronger babyface setting up his illadvised heel turn. I thought that at teh time as well, not just now that HHH sucks.

[Guest thebigjig]

Because the competition all had poor endings.

 

Rock vs. Aust at Mania?  McMahon interference that lasted like 5 minutes.

 

Austin vs. Angle at Summerslam?  DQ lame finish.

 

I would have put Benoit vs. Austin over it...but you really don't hear anything about it anywhere but this board.

 

 

Plus...much like Hogan vs. Rock at this year WrestleMania (which some I've seen some people refer to as the match of the year because of how big it was) the match had tremendous heat a very nice buildup to it...and the entire match felt like an actual blowoff to the feud.

 

Whens the last time you saw that?

 

Anyway...thats why people call it the match of the year.

 

The fact that it went 40 minutes didn't hurt its chances either.

 

Of course if they had let Angle and Benoit go that long...forgetaboutit.

Yeah I guess I see your point. I still don't really like it though, but to each his own

 

But I do kind of dissagree about the "lame" finish of the Austin/Angle match. I don't feel the finish took anything away from the greatness of of the actual match. Plus, from what I've read, the WWE wasn't planning on going with Angle as the top star anyway, but changed their minds after the match and after his reactions in the following weeks. Sure his babyface run in the long run didn't work, but it did hit it's peak with this match and the weeks following. So the finish just helped to strengthen Angle as the face that wouldn't give up and it also gave the fans a reason to want to see a rematch. Watching the match, I was with a group of guys, most of whom didn't like Angle that much. They still hadn't adjusted to his face turn. But after this match, they were pissed and actually paid me to watch the Unforgiven rematch

 

So IMO the match of the year for 2001 was Angle/Austin with Benoit/Austin following very very closely behind

[Guest RickyChosyu]

The match had a few blown spots at the begining and Austin was still getting back to form and HHH was God in the ring at the time. I think the match was overly praised because it was Austin's first great match after his injury. HHH and Austin stunk up the place at the Survivor Series just 4 months earlier, so the increase in quality was probably another reason why it was over rated.

 

I really like the match but the wrong guy went over IMO. HHH should haev jobbed to make Austin look like an even stronger babyface setting up his illadvised heel turn. I thought that at teh time as well, not just now that HHH sucks.

That, and everyone market out for the weapons and table bumps after being without them for so long. Too bad no one met the Jericho/HHH HIAC with such open arms; in many ways I enjoyed that more than Trips/Austin, so whatever.

 

The match is a pile of dung one way or another, and I think the clear winner for 2001 was either the tag from the San Jose Raw or the Smackdown match from Edmonton.

[Guest bob_barron]

Pile of dung?????

 

PILE OF DUNG??????

 

WTF were you watching??? These two guys went out and beat the shit out of each other for 40 minutes and its a pile of dung. Ummmm riiiiiiight. I think you accidentially watched the Lawler v. Richards match that followed

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

I loved the ending to the Austin/Rock match which is why I said it was MOTY. Benoit/Austin had McMahon interference too.

 

I also think Austin/HHH is overrated. It is still in the top ten, and maybe even the top 5, but I never really considered it number one.

 

BTW, the best Angle/Benoit match was at Insurrextion. The Iron Man was the worst of the PPV matches (even though it was the longest). I do like it better than the RAW Cage Match though.

[Guest Brian]

The last fall drags horribly and does very little to work off the first two falls. They used a tons of weapons at this point to cover up that both men were terribly fatigued after the fact had been put over that both men had the stamina to last; even Triple H had gone through a sixty minutes before. I don't think that first fall even played into the later falls, and I definately don't remember any long-term selling.

 

About Benoit/Angle, maybe now I could see them going forty but back a BackLash was horrible for these two. Angle was out of the ring stalling a ton after being out wrestled (and carried) by Benoit on the mat n their WrestleMania match. I still don't understand how he came out of this period universally loved since he wasn't working all that great, aside from bumping. Hell, Shane called audibles most of their match that was uniersally loved because Shane was dropped on his head.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Angles good now...thats all that matters.

 

Speaking of overrated...the Rock/HHH Iron Man match would be it.

 

They don't even make contact for the first full 10 minutes of the match.

 

Bah.

[Guest Brian]

I still thinks he's short of being the well-rounded package that everyone thinks.

 

The match carries a much better story throughout and does a better job with the gimmick. Problem with the three falls is it's not three falls, it's handled as three different matches.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

IMO the HHH/Rock Iron Man match was just as good as the HBK/Bret match which just about every person goes down on regularly. The thing that the Rock vs HHH had that Bret vs HBK didn't have was realism. They got pinfalls, submissions, even count outs. Fuck, HHH got a pin off of a simple piledriver, ditto for Rock and a (botched) ddt. These guys made it seem like hell and it showed the effect that it had on their bodies. Michaels and Hart went a fuckin hour without a pinfall, how realistic is that shit? The men aren't gods. They get tired. Well, in this match they didn't make the hour seem like a factor, which it always should be because it's the whole point of the match.

 

As for Angle/Benoit @ Backlash, I enjoyed. Not as good as their Mania match, but a nice clean ending and some cool submission work by both. The reason that the crowd was dead is because the WWF didn't have a clock up to show the time limit, thus killing what would have probably been a hot finish, had a clock been there.

 

Give Benoit/Angle at Mania another ten minutes and a clean finish and HHH vs Austin would be it's personal bitch.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

"IMO the HHH/Rock Iron Man match was just as good as the HBK/Bret match which just about every person goes down on regularly. "

 

I actually think that Rock/HHH is better than Hart/HBK.

 

But thats only because I thought Hart/HBK isn't very good.

 

Rock vs. HHH is good...just overrated.

[Guest Some Guy]

Angle/Benoit at WM had a clean finish (a roll up), what it needed was a good finish, like Benoit making him tap or vice versa. Preferably the former because Benoit's face turn was done so hastily he never had a chance to get over before the match and a clean win with the Crossface would have helped him a lot at the time.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

Let me rephrase that:

 

A clean finish without some form of cheating. Like a clean Anglelock tapout or crossface tapout.

 

My definition of a clean finish is blurred sometimes.

[Guest The Tino Standard]

"The last fall drags horribly and does very little to work off the first two falls. They used a tons of weapons at this point to cover up that both men were terribly fatigued after the fact had been put over that both men had the stamina to last; even Triple H had gone through a sixty minutes before. I don't think that first fall even played into the later falls, and I definately don't remember any long-term selling."

 

There was definitely long-term selling and stuff from the first fall played into the third. Triple H got his arm injured in the first fall by an Austin cross armbreaker. He struggled to pull off the Pedigree the entire match as a result, including the last fall.

 

Also, the reason for that third fall dragging at all, watch the match again. They don't go into a real resthold until about 35 minutes into the match. That's insane. And for the record, I think the only reason that third fall seemed slow was because of the absolutely frenetic pace of the first two. Watch that third fall compared to any of the slow-as-molasses matches on WWE TV today and you'll see what I mean.

[Guest caboose]

I don't like the Triple H Vs. Austin match from No Way Out.

I'm not gonna say it's overrated, but something about it just completely turned me against it, and I don't know what.

For 2001, Austin Vs. Rocky at WM X-7 was MOTY.

The match took you through the journey of StoneCold Steve Austin's WWF career.

And the finish was perfect in my opinion.

Austin did all he could to win, but nothing worked because he was simply not as good as he once was, and Rocky had taken over as the man. Austin knew this and that is why he sided with McMahon, cos he was holding onto the past, and couldn't cope with the fact he was no longer the best.

Even together, McMahon and Austin only just beat Rocky.

The finish was meant to put over Rocky big time, and develope Austin into the paranoid Heel he became.

I think this was overlooked because the Heel turn failed, so the finish got criticised.

[Guest Austin3164life]

Austin and Triple H's battle at No Way Out is overrated, however I still believe it should go on the top ten best matches of 2001 list. I don't really think it was meant to be a great psychological and technical display. It was meant for all out brawling. Yes, the match has its faults, but it was a good ass brawl. Top match for 2001 goes to Austin vs. Angle at Summerslam. The DQ at the end helped the Alliance get over as a heel group, and the match itself was excellent with a good crowd. Austin and Angle were just on and it worked so well.....

[Guest bob_barron]

The ending of Summerslam did nothing for the Alliance. It did a lot for Austin. Plus it turned Angle into Stone Cold Kurt Angle the American Patriot which just killed all his face heat.

 

The Summerslam ending just blew ass

[Guest Narcoleptic Jumper]

Well, Jericho/Benoit Ladder Match was *my* MOTY for 2001, so I don't know what you guys are all smoking.

[Guest TheSmarkzone]

I wouldn't say "pile of dung", but it wasn't....you know, great or MOTY. I give it ***.

 

I would give either Rock/Jericho from No Mercy or Rock/Austin from X-7 the MOTY honor. Austin/Angle from SummerSlam is a contender, but they dropped the ball with the finish. If they had tacked on the finish from Unforgiven to the SummerSlam match, they would have had a ***** MOTY and the best SummerSlam main event ever.

 

BTW, I thought that the finish to Rock/Austin was great. Sometimes screwy finishes suck, but sometimes they are really cool (i.e. Kane's debut at Badd Blood or Undertaker's return at Judgment Day 2000). Watch the What? DVD's segment on Rock/Austin...you'll get a better idea of the story that the finish told.

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

I got this idea from the Best of steve Austin thread, and I thought I would go ahead and ask for the opinion of others

 

I personally think it is HIGHLY overrated. I mean, it's a great match to a certain extent, but I honestly don't see how it was named as the match of the year

I suppose you think The Hell In a Cell match with HBK & Taker, The submission match with Austin & Bret and the cage match between Owen Hart & Bret Hart are all HIGHLY over rated too huh?

 

FUCK YOU, Its why we WATCH wrestling, sit down, stop criticising and FUCKING LIKE IT MOTHERFUCKER!

 

Ahem....This has been the Taker Mark

[Guest BorneAgain]

Eh, I've always thought that Benoit/Jericho vs HHH/Austin was MOTY. I mean you can talk about what a great blowoff match HHH vs Austin was, but all of the drama was essentially killed when Triple H joined Austin a month later for the Two-Man (Ego) Power Trip.

[Guest Narcoleptic Jumper]

FUCK YOU, Its why we WATCH wrestling, sit down, stop criticising and FUCKING LIKE IT MOTHERFUCKER!

 

Ahem....This has been the Taker Mark™

Thank you for that, Chris.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

There was definitely long-term selling and stuff from the first fall played into the third.  Triple H got his arm injured in the first fall by an Austin cross armbreaker.  He struggled to pull off the Pedigree the entire match as a result, including the last fall.

 

Also, the reason for that third fall dragging at all, watch the match again.  They don't go into a real resthold until about 35 minutes into the match.  That's insane.  And for the record, I think the only reason that third fall seemed slow was because of the absolutely frenetic pace of the first two.  Watch that third fall compared to any of the slow-as-molasses matches on WWE TV today and you'll see what I mean.

Oh God. Look, HHH sold that arm for the first fall only, and then completely forgot about it. He didn't even clutch it after a clothsline, or favor it durring the brawling. He conveniantly remembered it just before hitting a pedegree, and got back dropped through the table in a spot that anyone could call a mile away and didn't even look that breath-taking regardless.

 

If that's what you call long-term selling, I can see why you like the match. No rest-holds? What did you call HHH's pointless work of the leg? Unlike HHH's on-again off-again arm injury, the leg work didn't lead to ANYTHING, so therefor I call it a pointless excuse to lie around, aka: a resthold. How anyone can call a match this inconsistant and chock-full of total filler bullshit a wreslting "classic" is beyond me.

 

And to whoever said it was them beating the hell out of each other for 40 minutes: It was ten minutes of shitty "technical wrestling" that had no point, and 25 minutes of really shitty brawling, prop shots, and a few big bumps thrown in here and there. But hey, if you think Trips selling an arm-injury to put himself through a table and then blading himself on camera is a ***** match, good for you, but don't get mad at me for calling it a piece of cow dung, because that's what it is.