Kane?

[Guest jm29195]

Does Kane have a match tonite?

also

What was the reason for his one day reign as champ in 1998?

I mean he lost it back to the same bloke he won it off straight away!

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

They booked themselves into a corner.  Russo booked the match without realizing that there was no possible way that Kane could lose.  Hence the one day switch.

 

Russo did things all the time that he didn't put any thought into.

[Guest Ghast]

How couldn't Kane lose that match? Austin beat him the next night. That doesn't make sense.

[Guest RevEvil]

Kane promised to kill himself if he lost. Undertaker helped him win so he wouldn't. Thus, Taker could cause Austin to lose without turning heel.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

It was a first blood match.  Kind of hard to get a guy to bleed when he is wearing a mask.

[Guest jm29195]

couldn't he have bled from the arms?

 

Also al lot of people say that Kurt Angle had the most succesful rooky year in 2000, but Kane was put straight into the upper tier matches, put over main evernters such as Vader at no way out, headlined at kotr, judgement day, fully loaded and had won the tage titles and the championship within a year of debuting- why did the wwf put so much faith in him seeing how he had bombed in his previous gimmicks??

[Guest Undisputed Champion]

If they don't add a Kane match at the last minute (which would be dumb anyway), this is the first PPV without Kane since No Mercy 2000. (correct me if I'm wrong)

[Guest RevEvil]

It was a first blood match.  Kind of hard to get a guy to bleed when he is wearing a mask.

yeah that too. You'd think Austin would do something similiar to protect himself.

[Guest Tony149]

I liked the one day switch for Kane. I didn't have access to the net back then. So that's probably why.

[Guest AM The Kid]

Kane wasn't an actual rookie, he had been wrestling for a quite a few years. In Kurt Angle's case that was his very first year as a wrestler.

[Guest Well It's The Big O]

Can't they just have Steven Richards or some jobber come out and Kane chokeslams him and wins? That's not too hard is it?

[Guest Galactic Gigolo]

I doubt we'll be seeing Kane on TV until after the split.  With all the main event talent and mid-card talent the WWF has now, it wouldn't make sense to bring Kane in when any feud he'd have would be pretty senseless.

 

But of course, Kane will probably be on Raw tomorrow, just because everyone wants to see me be wrong.

[Guest Steve J. Rogers]

couldn't he have bled from the arms?

 

Also al lot of people say that Kurt Angle had the most succesful rooky year in 2000, but Kane was put straight into the upper tier matches, put over main evernters such as Vader at no way out, headlined at kotr, judgement day, fully loaded and had won the tage titles and the championship within a year of debuting- why did the wwf put so much faith in him seeing how he had bombed in his previous gimmicks??

Also al lot of people say that Kurt Angle had the most succesful rooky year in 2000, but Kane was put straight into the upper tier matches, put over main evernters such as Vader at no way out, headlined at kotr, judgement day, fully loaded and had won the tage titles and the championship within a year of debuting- why did the wwf put so much faith in him seeing how he had bombed in his previous gimmicks??

 

It wasn't that they had faith in Glenn Jacobs, they had faith that "Anyone" vs Taker would be a headliner.  The WWF was still in "Main Eventer vs Gimmick Guy" mode with Taker (also see Bret Hart vs Issac Yankem) which is how Mankind got started as well (though Cactus Jack would have been well suited for the eventual Mankind role)  

 

Kane was the last of the string of the "Lets create a character to fight Taker" gimmicks though which included Giant Gonzalez, The Executioner (the late Terry Gordy) of course Mankind, and the UnderFaker.  Of course Kane and Mankind are the only ones that went beyond their gimmicks as Undertaker's "Storyline Opponent of the Month"

 

Steve

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

I think Kane has no real future with the WWF. In my opinion, Kane wll just be collecting a check while being put in go nowhere feuds. It seems like they write stuff for Kane without acknowledging facets of his character that gave the WWF reasons to use him in the past. They have neither used nor expanded upon his character traits since Russo left. The WWF writing team sucks if you ask me. If Glenn Jacobs was able to have his contract bought out and use his gimmick in the independents, I think he would be better off than being in the WWF since they are supposedly constantly evaluating their roster. Things don't look good when Bossman can still get tv time despite the fact that he hasn't been over since the 80s and maybe a few months when he came back to the WWF for the whole Corporation angle. Maybe they will keep him around since he has been with the WWF for so long (I think just about 9 years), but they can't use him in many capacities because of his gimmick. Terri has been around for a while (not enhancing the product in any way if you ask me) and they have found things for her to do. Kane on the other hand,wears a mask all the time. What use is he when you take him out of the ring?

[Guest KANE]

Pinnicle,

 

You're right.  They haven't expanded Kane's character since Russo was gone, and most of Russo's ideas are crappy, but I think Kane was the only ones that were working for him.  He started off feuding with his "brother," under Paul Bearer, then they added a backstory: Bearer turned out to be his father, etc., which would explain Kane's child-like loyalty, until he and Undertaker joined forces.  After a while, Kane was turned on by Bearer, and was a "ship without a rudder," an uncontrollable retarded beast that didn't know what he was doing; he was just wrecking people and things.  Eventually, they teamed him up with the Corporation, unwillingly, because the Corp really needed some hired muscle, but Kane wouldn't do it on his own.  If Kane didn't comply, Vince would get a straight jacket on him and put him back in the sanitarium hole that Bearer got him out of.  Eventually, corporation Chyna, who took Kane under her wing in a sort of sisterly gesture (although Kane liked her more than that), turned on him too.  

 

After Kane left the corporation, he befrended what was left of DX (with his new best friend, X-Pac [undertaker lambasted him for wanting friends and rejecting his dark nature]) and found his first girlfriend, Tori, but just like everyone else in his life, Kane was shunned and rejected by the people he learned to trust when HHH and Chyna's influence came back into DX's world.

 

It was through all these friendships and rejections that switched Kane's personality from a heel machine-like monster to be ordered around to a compasionate creature face with feelings that just wanted to belong.  People cheered him around this time because I think people could relate to that last feeling.            

 

Now that was the 1st 2 years of Kane's characterization.  After that...the writers did nothing to expand him, or mention his past.  They forget him in storylines, randomly throw a title on him, and basically haven't added anything new to his personality for the next 2 years.  And this is why Kane, who was over with the fans in 98-99, has been forgotten by them since.    

 

One thing I can commend them for, is for bringing out his funny side on occasion.  

 

Of course you can expect this kind of overanalysis from a Kane mark, huh?

[Guest J*ingus]

couldn't he have bled from the arms?

 

Around that time, Kane wore a suit with long sleeves, so literally one hand was the only thing that he had exposed, and it would've looked odd to switch it.  Also, blading your arm is a LOT trickier & more dangerous than doing it on the forehead.  

 

put over main evernters such as Vader

 

By '98, Vader was just a jobber.  He lost clean matches to Jeff Jarrett and Al Snow not long afterwards.  

 

If Glenn Jacobs was able to have his contract bought out and use his gimmick in the independents,

 

They would never let him.  Gimmicks that are created in the WWF are pretty much never allowed to go elsewhere.  They've sued WCW several times over ex-employees with too-close characters.  

 

Personally I think Kane is one of the more underrated and underpushed guys around.  He's probably the best wrestler of his size, has constantly improved himself in the WWF, is always over with the crowd as a babyface, yet the WWF rarely gives him anything worthwhile to do.

[Guest Sakura]

Around that time, Kane wore a suit with long sleeves, so literally one hand was the only thing that he had exposed, and it would've looked odd to switch it.  Also, blading your arm is a LOT trickier & more dangerous than doing it on the forehead.  

 

 

Yep, and at the ppv itself he wore the outfit with BOTH sleeves covered.

 

From the Ross report this week....

 

Kane certainly stikes me as a top main-event-level talent and will no doubt be given the opportunity to get there on a full-time basis in the next few weeks.

 

 

Could be BS or maybe they are going to use him as one of the new main eventers they'll need when the split goes down. He could fight Nash at Wrestlemania if they decide not to turn UT....

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

This is also the guy that was harping about Big Show's alleged weight loss, so take his estimations with a grain of salt.

[Guest goodhelmet]

Yeah, and the cruisers are gonna get a push anyday now. and we're gonna bring up some developmental talent. They are some real hosses down there! Oh, and tonight's PPV was an 8/10 on the Jim Ross PPV scale!

[Guest Army Eye]

KANE comes through with the analysis.  Very good..  And the lack of development of Kane pretty much coincides with Russo leaving, wouldn't you say?

[Guest Redhawk]

Man, bringing up that First Blood match made me realize how stupid it was.

 

1) Not only did Kane wear a mask, he was completely covered in his suit. The only thing exposed was his left hand. Austin, on the other hand, wore his usual black tights and nothing else. What an idiot.

2) Austin started bleeding from the back real early in the match, but JR played it off by saying that Hebner wasn't gonna stop it unless they "really busted themselves open." (i.e., someone blades)

3) Austin was bleeding WAY too much at the end from a simple chairshot. It looked like the chair had knives on it.

4) I don't see why Kane couldn't have been the one to make Austin bleed.

[Guest KANE]

Thanks Army Eye.  And yes, doing nothing with Kane pretty much coincided with Russo's leaving.  Now after constant jobs to everyone, Kane, who was a main eventer and a major threat in Russo's WWF, was demoted to mid upper-level, then lower upper level status guy who was defeated without much effort.  I would say he's now a full fledged mid carder.  Just when I think they're getting serious about him (Royal Rumble iron man 2001), they forget about him again soon after.  

 

Maybe a good direction for him would be to make him King of the Ring 2002 as a sleeper pick, but they really want someone with a guaranteed impact after Edge "Billy Gunned" it last year so that the title means something again.  So it will probably be RVD this year, or someone else that gets huge pops.

[Guest RicFlairGlory]

yeah blah blah blah.  Just have him drop the mask and become a real person

 

And just do that "beauty in the eye of the beholder shit.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

If he loses his mask, you throw away everything that was done to establish his character since he came into existence. Given the trouble they had getting him over without the mask, I think it would be foolish to take away what makes him Kane. Remember the guy is supposed to be horribly disfigured under the mask, but isn't in real life. Then again, they did the same thing with the Undertaker and made him into a new character. Actually, his new character sucks so my point still stands. You can't just throw crap together with no regard for continuity.

[Guest RicFlairGlory]

Yeah. Thats why you go all twilight zone and say "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" or some shit like that.  But seriously, how long are people going to give a fuck if he's some retarded masked monster. now THAT gets old.  Theres no point to his character, he's just there.  Thats his problem.  Do SOMETHING to get him over.  Nothing would get him over like re-doing his image.  

 

hell get one of the broads to go out and take him shopping for clothes on Newbury street during a Boston RAW or something. Anything.  but the plain old kane ahhh evil monster gimmick is going to go NOWHERE.

[Guest jm29195]

Well there was a time on Heat when he smashed up one of those crane/toy machines to get a cuddly toy for this kid- that was quite funny!

[Guest dreamer420]

He is still valuable.  He is very over with the fans, not too bad in the ring (with the right opponent), and can provide some very funny backstage stuff.  Give him another chance.

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

Remember the guy is supposed to be horribly disfigured under the mask

Quiz time!  Who actually remembers this:

 

A) The fans

B) The writers

C) None of the above

 

It's not all-that-inconceivable for them to take off the mask w/out any explanation of this.