Angle vs Brock

[Guest oldschoolwrestling]

Supposing Angle wins the strap on Thursday, holds the title until SummerSlam, and Brock keeps his title shot, would Brock need to be carried? I'm picturing a mat-based match without all the kicking and punching. NCAA champion vs Olympic champion. Kind of like the Angle-Benoit match a year or two ago. Kurt of course would lead, but could this match turn out 4+ stars and allow both guys to shine?

[Guest LesnarLunatic]

I can imagine Lesnar v. Angle being a solid good match.

 

With some actual fun heat behind it.

[Guest Anglesault]

Maybe. If they let Brock wrestle, I guess it could be good...

[Guest LesnarLunatic]

I heard they already had the Angle/Lesnar amateur match and it was a close one that went in favor of Angle.

[Guest Anglesault]

Well, that's to be expected.

[Guest Zack Malibu]

I'd love to see Brock use his mat wrestling technique, moreso than his big, lumbering offense. If he busted out the mat wrestling and the anticipated shooting star press, he might draw some actual attention, besides being this week's "big guy who can toss little guys around".

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Angle was gassed after five minutes of matwork in the Ultimate Submision match (which he was basically carried though anyway) and was stalling like Larry Zybisco on a bad day after ten. The King of the Ring Pay Per View last year did a lot to convince me of his conditioning, but I really don't think that a Brock/Angle amature style match would be very good. Angle wouldn't be nearly as good at working the mat as he would be bumping and selling for Brock like he has been for everyone. The worked-shoot parodoxes would also creep in, because while working the mat, many questions like "why doesn't he just put on the anklelocke?" and "how can he stretch Brock like that?" would come up since it doesn't make sense for the pro style because everyone is educated to think that Angle will always go for his big finish and that Brock is more powerfull than anyone else in the promotion. Plus, both guys are totally unproven considering Angle had to be carried through most of the mat segments with Benoit and Brock hasn't even attempted any sort of shoot-style stuff.

[Guest endgame722]

This is definitely the match I want to see. I think Lesnar has been improving the last couple weeks and if they built toward a face turn at summerslam he could get over. They need to stress the fact that his monster offense won't work against Angle and that he'll need to use his wrestling skills. If they build the match through wrestling, end it with some crazy high-spots and let Lesnar bust out the SSP it should end up being an easy **** match. Shit, if Kurt F'n Angle could carry Shane MacMahon and John Cena to good matches he definitely could do the same with Brock Lesnar.

[Guest DrTom]

The problem is, WWE doesn't think mat wrestling would get over. They don't really let Angle do a lot of his amateur stuff. It's not that his style suffers for it, but his amateur background should be allowed to come out more. When Angle and Benoit did their mat-based matches, though, the response was huge. Lesnar so far has been booked as a big dumb monster, so if they're going to show him as a mat wrestler, they'd better start doing it. The problem is, there are few guys capable of putting on that type of match with him.

 

If they build to this match well and let Angle and Lesnar have a real mat-based match, I think the results would very good. With that style, I don't think Lesnar would need a lot of carrying, since he's already shown himself to be good at it.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

This is definitely the match I want to see. I think Lesnar has been improving the last couple weeks and if they built toward a face turn at summerslam he could get over. They need to stress the fact that his monster offense won't work against Angle and that he'll need to use his wrestling skills. If they build the match through wrestling, end it with some crazy high-spots and let Lesnar bust out the SSP it should end up being an easy **** match. Shit, if Kurt F'n Angle could carry Shane MacMahon and John Cena to good matches he definitely could do the same with Brock Lesnar.

If you want them to do an amature style match, why in the hell would you throw in a shooting star press? This is what I'm talking about: you can't throw in a realism factor and hope to keep it for the entire match with two guys as limited in that area as Angle and Brock. If their match tops ***, I'll be hugely shocked.

[Guest Austin3164life]

If the WWE lets Brock bust out with the SSP and let Angle do his moonsault (and let them both wrestle the way they want to) I think the match might be perfect.....

[Guest RickyChosyu]

If the WWE lets Brock bust out with the SSP and let Angle do his moonsault (and let them both wrestle the way they want to) I think the match might be perfect.....

Two highspots = a perfect match? Is "perfect" a synonim for "drab" these days?

[Guest endgame722]

This is definitely the match I want to see.  I think Lesnar has been improving the last couple weeks and if they built toward a face turn at summerslam he could get over.  They need to stress the fact that his monster offense won't work against Angle and that he'll need to use his wrestling skills.  If they build the match through wrestling, end it with some crazy high-spots and let Lesnar bust out the SSP it should end up being an easy **** match.  Shit, if Kurt F'n Angle could carry Shane MacMahon and John Cena to good matches he definitely could do the same with Brock Lesnar.

If you want them to do an amature style match, why in the hell would you throw in a shooting star press? This is what I'm talking about: you can't throw in a realism factor and hope to keep it for the entire match with two guys as limited in that area as Angle and Brock. If their match tops ***, I'll be hugely shocked.

I agree that building the match aroung the fact that both guys are 'real wrestlers' wouldn't work. If they plan to make the match an amateur style wrestling match the crowd will likely fall asleep because as you said both guys aren't experienced enough in that type of match.

 

Here's what I would do:

Have him continue to tease a face turn until the RAW before SS where he finally fires Heyman and kicks his ass thus turning face. At SS, the match starts with Brock trying to use his power moves but with Angle always being able to counter them with wrestling moves. Angles acts like a cocky asshole and Brock finally realizes that he has to use his wrestling ability. Brock then begins to outwrestle Kurt, getting the better of a number of mat-based exchanges. Kurt then begins to cheat using lowblows, thumb-to-the-eye, etc. The match goes back and forth with Kurt working on the ancle and Brock working on the back. Both guys score a number of near falls and the match eventually leads to Brock F5ing Angle through the announce table. Angle is dead and the crowd really begins to get behind Brock. Brock then rolls Angle into the ring, hits the SSP and the crowd goes crazy. But before Brock gets the pin, Heyman runs out and knocks out the ref. Brock then goes after Heyman but is jumped by Heyman new next big thing (Rhyno or something). Brock is then thrown back in and taps to the ancle-lock.

 

Lesnar stated on Byte This! that he considers Angle his mentor so I would expect that they should be able to work well with each other. He also said to expect the SSP at summerslam so that would also fit in with what I have said.

 

This match would benefit both guys in that Lesnar would get alot of face heat for kicking Heyman's ass, out-wrestling Angle and hitting the SSP. Angle would be able to brag about making a monster tap in the main-event of Summerslam.

 

This is my opinion of what I'd like for the main event of Summerslam. If you have a better idea feel free to post it.

[Guest Prince Paul]

If their match tops ***, I'll be hugely shocked.

Well of course you will, because you are extremely negative.

 

It would shock you, for an olympic gold medalist and an NCAA champion to have a better match than ***'s? Well okay then.

 

I've been looking forward to Angle vs Lesnar, and I think I'd take that over Brock vs Rock.

[Guest godthedog]

considering Angle had to be carried through most of the mat segments with Benoit

 

may i ask how you know this? just because benoit appeared to be outwrestling angle doesn't mean he was controlling the sequence. angle even goes into this in his book, saying benoit didn't have much experience as an amateur and angle outwrestled benoit for a little while, then left an opening for him to take over; they'd break, angle would outwrestle benoit for a little while again, then leave an opening, etc.

[Guest Brian]

I'd be surprised to if that match tops three stars. Why? Because Brock is incredibly limited and Angle's strengths are in bumping and selling, just like Choyshu said. Angle doing worked mat stuff has not been a thing of beauty so far as he's mainly tanked; ending up winded, being out-wrestled. Plus Angle's strength, as I've emphasized in past threads, is not in building actual matches. Building a mat based match takes a consideration of realism and submissions. Now how does green-as-heel Brock pull that off, and Angle with only one submission hold do that. Angle's better off bumping and working a simple man vs. monster story and go at the knees or play chicken shit heel.

 

I don't know, I'm looking forward to Brock vs. Rock just because Rock will probably draw more excitement into the match.

[Guest endgame722]

The problem with Brock vs. Rock is that the match will inevitably lead to New WWE Undisputed Champion Brock Lesnar and that he would still be a heatless monster.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I didn't read the thread...just the question:

 

Brockl needs carrying.

 

He's lost out there.

 

Bubba and he had a decent match that was likely laid out ahead of time because it was the only one Brocks had that flowed at all.

 

Test tried his damndest to lead Brock at KOTR...and failed.

 

RVD's bumping and well done comeback in their Raw match was Brocks best match.

 

Booker T and Brock was a mess on that Raw.

 

Flair vs. Brock was ok...because Flair knew when to do what with him.

 

So...he needs carrying or its all power move...stall...power move...stall...power move...stall...and its doesn't make a lick of sense.

 

Kind of like RVD when he first got to the WWE.

 

Spot...pose...Spot...pose...Spot...pose...

 

RVD has figured out when to do what and why.

 

Brock will get there too.

 

Until then...carry him.