overrated matches

[Guest godthedog]

got the idea from the "matches you like that no one else likes" thread (duh). so, what matches do you think have reputations that are bigger than they should be?

 

i've said it before, i think austin/trips at no way out was the most overrated match of last year. it was a good enough match, but definitely not one for the ages. they did nothing creative whatsoever with the 3-falls format (a finisher figured into every fall), and both of them were too tired by the 3rd fall to do really do anything with the cage gimmick. not only that, but the match got reeeeeally slooooow for the last 10 minutes or so; i know a lot of people defend it, saying they were selling the fatigue, but there's a difference between selling the fatigue and just dragging the match because you're too winded.

 

i'm sick of everybody and their mother saying that the trips/rock iron man match was better than bret/hbk. the only thing trips/rock has going for it is that it used the iron man gimmick more creatively. it contained way more outside brawling than there should have been, it slowed down a LOT at the halfway point (as opposed to bret/hbk, which actually BUILDS for 60 minutes), and for the most part it traded crappy brawling for actual wrestling. except for a couple botched ranas, everything that bret & shawn did was clean, crisp and beautiful. trips and rocky were pretty sloppy in comparison (especially the piledriver, that looked legitimately like rocky was in danger of being hurt).

 

i'll probably catch hell for this, but i think bret/davey from summerslam 92 is overrated. it is a very VERY good match that builds beautifully, but there's just too much resting in it. had davey been in better shape, the pacing would've been better & they would've had an even better match.

 

bret/austin from revenge of the taker bugs me a lot, because to me it marks the beginning of austin's deterioration into the "kick punch stunner" style. if you compare austin's offense between survivor series & revenge, it's just sad. all austin really does to fight bret off is punch. and for all the KILLER selling of the leg austin does, at the end of the match he just forgets about it. good match, but the little things like that piss me off.

 

so, there's a start. argue with my choices, & add your own.

 

edit: almost forgot--angle/benoit from wrestlemania, and the whole angle/benoit series in general. they were all reasonably good matches, but, considering the caliber of the workers, they should've been better. it seems like they get more credit than they deserve just because they featured angle & benoit.

[Guest dreamer420]

the two iron man matches are way too overrated IMO.

 

the rock vs. hhh from judgment day 99.

 

bret hart vs. shawn michaels from wrestlemania 12

[Guest Singular]

Undertaker vs. Mankind (KOTR Hell in the Cell) - Two big bumps do not make a good match.

 

Austin vs. HBK Wrestlemania - Austin's first World title win. Slow and Dull.

 

Didn't like either Iron Man match

 

Any match involving Shane McMahon including Angle vs. Shane KOTR 2001. Good bumper. Bad anything else.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

Regal vs Benoit from Pillman 2000...it wasn't the technical masterpiece everyone said it was.

 

Every SAT match.

[Guest Mark4steamboat]

This will shock and appal people but:

Savage vs Steamboat(!) from WM3. Now before everyone scratches their head in disbelief, i have a reason. For one, it wasnt long enough and the near falls get old after a while.i would rate it around **** but it is no ***** match by any stretch of the imagination.

[Guest endgame722]

All HHH matches from Jan 2000 - April 2001

 

Undertaker vs. Mankind (KOTR '98)

 

Austin vs. Rock (WMX-7)

 

HBK vs. Razor (WMX)

 

Austin vs. Benoit (the one in Edmonton with the bullshit finish)

 

Austin vs. Angle (the one where Angle hit Austin with 10 german suplexes in a row)

 

Hogan vs. Warrior (WMVI)

 

Warroir vs. Savage (WMVII)

 

Thats all I can think of for now.

[Guest godthedog]

All HHH matches from Jan 2000 - April 2001

 

Undertaker vs. Mankind (KOTR '98)

 

Austin vs. Rock (WMX-7)

 

HBK vs. Razor (WMX)

 

Austin vs. Benoit (the one in Edmonton with the bullshit finish)

 

Austin vs. Angle (the one where Angle hit Austin with 10 german suplexes in a row)

 

Hogan vs. Warrior (WMVI)

 

Warroir vs. Savage (WMVII)

 

Thats all I can think of for now.

i thought austin/benoit in calgary had much more of a bullshit finish than in edmonton.

 

and it helps if you back up your choices with, you know, arguments.

[Guest dreamer420]

Undertaker vs. Mankind (KOTR '98)

when a man almost dies it is anything but overrated. this matches, and taker and foley's performances, don't get the recognition they deserve especially since they finished the match.

[Guest Mark4steamboat]

Seeing as how they both had injuries, they put on a hell of a performance.

[Guest dreamer420]

that's what i think too. actually considering the injuries that foley had and knowing that taker had a broken foot going in this match always impresses me.

[Guest godthedog]

it's a miracle that these guys even got through the match, but it had no flow at all & no near-falls. it was basically a wrestling freak show, creating a huge "did i just see that?" effect. watching violence that realistic doesn't draw me into a match, it just makes me uncomfortable. same thing with angle/shane at king of the ring: when shane wouldn't go through the glass it was obvious that something was wrong & i was genuinely afriad that shane would break his neck. when i watch a match, i want to be worried that the guy i like might not win; i don't want to be worried that the guy i like may never walk again.

 

and i don't believe the argument "when a man almost dies it is anything but overrated" works. by that standard, you could say that bullshit exploitation scaffold match with new jack was a classic.

[Guest dreamer420]

just out of curiousity what star rating do you guys have undertaker vs. mankind pegged at?

[Guest endgame722]

All HHH matches from Jan 2000 - April 2001

 

Undertaker vs. Mankind (KOTR '98)

 

Austin vs. Rock (WMX-7)

 

HBK vs. Razor (WMX)

 

Austin vs. Benoit (the one in Edmonton with the bullshit finish)

 

Austin vs. Angle (the one where Angle hit Austin with 10 german suplexes in a row)

 

Hogan vs. Warrior (WMVI)

 

Warroir vs. Savage (WMVII)

 

Thats all I can think of for now.

i thought austin/benoit in calgary had much more of a bullshit finish than in edmonton.

 

and it helps if you back up your choices with, you know, arguments.

Most of these matches I only saw once when they originally happened so it's hard for me to remember all the details but here it goes:

 

All HHH matches from Jan 2000 - April 2001

This consists of all his matches that I saw from the street fight at Royal rumble until the tag match where he tore his quad. It was at this time that HHH was being called 'The New Man' (the next Ric Flair) by CRZ and the best wrestler in the business by what I thought was a large majority of people on the net. I personally always found the guy to be slow and boring. His technical wrestling ability was vastly overrated and I don't remember him taking any noteworthy bumps. The fact that he never lost also pissed me off.

 

Undertaker vs. Mankind (KOTR '98)

I would agree that the performances of all involved were incredible with Foley going way beyong the call of duty. However, while this match is clearly contained 2 of the sickest and most frightening bumps I've ever seen I don't remember the match containing much wrestling. Fpr a match to be considered a ***** MOTYC it must have wrestling in it. Was it one of the most incredible things I've ever seen in wrestling? Yes. Was it the MOTY? No.

 

Austin vs. Rock (WMX-7)

If I'm not mistaken, I seem to remember this match coming up a couple times in the thread about Austin's best matches. Again, I can't remember everything about the match but here are some of the problems I had with it. First, both Austin and Rock use extremely weakass versions of the sharpshooter in the match. These guys are PROFESSIONAL wrestlers and should learn to put the hold on correctly if they plan on using it in the biggest match of the year. Second, it seemed like they were trying to pattern the match after Austin vs. Bret from WMXIII but were not successful in coming up with anything original. Finally, the finish with MacMahon in the ring for so long and the fact that Austin couldn't get himself over as a heel took something away from the match.

 

HBK vs. Razor (WMX)

I have seen many, many people call this the greatest match in WWF history. While it was a great match, it just doesn't stand to the test of time as the best ever. Many of the latter spots were very ordinary with one guy simply throwing the ladder at the other. The wrestling sequences were good but nothing special. Overall, I can't pick this match apart to much cause I thought it was very good but honestly I wouldn't put it in my top 5.

 

Austin vs. Benoit (the one in Edmonton with the bullshit finish)

You're probably right that the one in Calgary was the one with the bullshit finish. I don't remember. And thats the problem. Both guys are great wrestlers but I didn't find that there was anything memorable about these matches. Many people have said that this should have been the MOTY last year but what did they do in this match that makes it standout from the average Austin or Benoit match. I think people were so happy that Benoit was being pushed to the main event that they overrate this match. In fact, what pisses be off about these matches is that not only did Benoit do nothing out of the ordinary in this match, he was limited by having to wrestle 'WWF style' cause he was in there with Austin. I've never seen any of Benoit's Japan matches but I think his WCW matches were better than anything he's done in the WWF.

 

Austin vs. Angle (the one where Angle hit Austin with 10 german suplexes in a row)

I don't have much to say about this match other that watching the same move over and over again is pretty damn boring.

 

Hogan vs. Warrior (WMVI)

Tests of strength, bearhugs, next to no wrestling performed. Match also contains Hogan almost quitting because of a knee injury and then forgetting about it 2 minutes later.

 

Warroir vs. Savage (WMVII)

I thought the Warrior talking to his hands shit was retarded. Also, kicking out of the 5 elbows was insulting. The angle with Savage and Liz at the end was good but the match itself was very overrated.

[Guest endgame722]

Just to let you know, I would rate Undertaker vs. Mankind at about ***3/4.

[Guest dreamer420]

cool. i give it ***** and that is isn't based solely on the "wrestling" in the match either.

[Guest BigTim2002]

OK.

 

I personally think that there should be a WRESTLING ANALYSIS scale and a MARKOUT scale. Then, there could be a rating for all those things rolled into one. Not an average, but something else.

 

Edited Example: UT vs. Mankind-KOTR 98:

Markout Scale: *****

Wrestling Scale: *1/2

Combined Scale (Not an average): **3/4

[Guest bob_barron]

Warrior kicking out of five elbows is called drama.

 

Benoit hit 10 Germans on Austin, Angle only hit seven.

[Guest BorneAgain]

All HHH matches from Jan 2000 - April 2001

This consists of all his matches that I saw from the street fight at Royal rumble until the tag match where he tore his quad. It was at this time that HHH was being called 'The New Man' (the next Ric Flair) by CRZ and the best wrestler in the business by what I thought was a large majority of people on the net. I personally always found the guy to be slow and boring. His technical wrestling ability was vastly overrated and I don't remember him taking any noteworthy bumps. The fact that he never lost also pissed me off.

I gotta agree endgame, I never saw what was so great about Triple H around that time. Foley is what made the streetfight and HIAC great, not HHH

[Guest caboose]

Austin Vs. Triple H @ No Way Out 2001

Triple H Vs. Cactus Jack @ Royal Rumble 2000

Austin Vs. Bret Hart @ WrestleMania 13

[Guest RetroRob215]

This will shock and appal people but:

Savage vs Steamboat(!) from WM3. Now before everyone scratches their head in disbelief, i have a reason. For one, it wasnt long enough and the near falls get old after a while.i would rate it around **** but it is no ***** match by any stretch of the imagination.

I agree. I also don't like Shawn-Razor round 2 @ SummerSlam.

[Guest slabinskia]

both bret-owen matches

bret-buldog ss92

hbk-razor ss95

FLAIR-VAdER STARCAdE 93

[Guest Your Olympic Hero]

Warrior/Savage from WM7 wasn't as great as people said. Nor was Hogan/Warrior from WM6.

[Guest godthedog]

done in special 'themikesc' style:

 

<<All HHH matches from Jan 2000 - April 2001

This consists of all his matches that I saw from the street fight at Royal rumble until the tag match where he tore his quad. It was at this time that HHH was being called 'The New Man' (the next Ric Flair) by CRZ and the best wrestler in the business by what I thought was a large majority of people on the net. I personally always found the guy to be slow and boring. His technical wrestling ability was vastly overrated and I don't remember him taking any noteworthy bumps. The fact that he never lost also pissed me off.>>

 

i agree that trips is very overrated as a technical wrestler. he seems to have one good technical match in him (work that knee, hunter!), and just redoes that one match over & over. but the man could sell really well and knew how to put a match together.

 

<<Austin vs. Rock (WMX-7)

If I'm not mistaken, I seem to remember this match coming up a couple times in the thread about Austin's best matches. Again, I can't remember everything about the match but here are some of the problems I had with it. First, both Austin and Rock use extremely weakass versions of the sharpshooter in the match. These guys are PROFESSIONAL wrestlers and should learn to put the hold on correctly if they plan on using it in the biggest match of the year. Second, it seemed like they were trying to pattern the match after Austin vs. Bret from WMXIII but were not successful in coming up with anything original. Finally, the finish with MacMahon in the ring for so long and the fact that Austin couldn't get himself over as a heel took something away from the match.>>

 

they didn't just lift it directly from WM 13, they built on it. when austin got out of the sharpshooter and put his own on the rock, it helped add to his status as the heel of the match and indicated that HE was now the paranoid veteran, with the rock being the young guy with something to prove.

 

<<HBK vs. Razor (WMX)

I have seen many, many people call this the greatest match in WWF history. While it was a great match, it just doesn't stand to the test of time as the best ever. Many of the latter spots were very ordinary with one guy simply throwing the ladder at the other. The wrestling sequences were good but nothing special. Overall, I can't pick this match apart to much cause I thought it was very good but honestly I wouldn't put it in my top 5.>>

 

granted, the spots in this match have been outdone. but the build and pacing are far superior to every other ladder match ever. every other ladder match, even jericho/benoit, has an uneven "okay, we got that spot done, now we need to go to the next spot" feeling, but hbk/razor makes every transition fluidly, and it all makes sense. and it had one hell of a creative ending.

 

<<Austin vs. Benoit (the one in Edmonton with the bullshit finish)

You're probably right that the one in Calgary was the one with the bullshit finish. I don't remember. And thats the problem. Both guys are great wrestlers but I didn't find that there was anything memorable about these matches. Many people have said that this should have been the MOTY last year but what did they do in this match that makes it standout from the average Austin or Benoit match. I think people were so happy that Benoit was being pushed to the main event that they overrate this match. In fact, what pisses be off about these matches is that not only did Benoit do nothing out of the ordinary in this match, he was limited by having to wrestle 'WWF style' cause he was in there with Austin. I've never seen any of Benoit's Japan matches but I think his WCW matches were better than anything he's done in the WWF.>>

 

nothing memorable? remember when benoit put austin in the crossface in the middle of the ring as soon as the bell rang & the crowd went nuts, then as soon as austin got to the ropes benoit slapped it on him again? remember when they fought over a sharpshooter? remember when benoit gave austin 10 german suplexes in a row?

 

<<Austin vs. Angle (the one where Angle hit Austin with 10 german suplexes in a row)

I don't have much to say about this match other that watching the same move over and over again is pretty damn boring.>>

 

yup, lots of repeating moves in this match: austin does rolling germans on angle, angle does rolling germans on austin, austin rams angle's head into the post half a dozen times...i personally thought it all added to the match though, it got across the idea that austin was absolutely obsessed with destroying angle, & he kept coming back for more.

 

<<Hogan vs. Warrior (WMVI)

Tests of strength, bearhugs, next to no wrestling performed. Match also contains Hogan almost quitting because of a knee injury and then forgetting about it 2 minutes later.>>

 

no arguments here. i watched this thing the other night on a friend's WM18 dvd, and oh my god was it ever boring. rest holds galore, & everything looked like shit. this used to be my favorite match when i was 8, but this just proves that i was an idiot when i was 8.

 

<<Warroir vs. Savage (WMVII)

I thought the Warrior talking to his hands shit was retarded. Also, kicking out of the 5 elbows was insulting. The angle with Savage and Liz at the end was good but the match itself was very overrated.>>

 

haven't seen it.

[Guest godthedog]

both bret-owen matches

bret-buldog ss92

hbk-razor ss95

FLAIR-VAdER STARCAdE 93

what was wrong with the bret/owen matches?

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

I absolutely hated RVD/Jeff Hardy from Summerslam, but people have called it a MOTYC.

 

The one good thing I can say about the match is that it was better than the one that followed it (Taker&Kane/DDP&Kanyon).

[Guest saturnmark4life]

I thought RVD/hrady was overrated too. Just a bit of a tired formula, though i wouldn't call it bad. I didn't reckon much to HBK/austin, but the heat was immense and shawn WAS crippled, so heck. I can't criticise hell in a cell, cos it got me back into wrestling after a gap of years. It's a higlight reel, can't really rate it as a match, but it's still classic. and my biggest disagreement with anything i've read from Keith is giving the survivor series main event ****. i hated it and thought it was much worse than invasion, with the one of the crappiest endings i've ever seen.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

"both bret-owen matches

bret-buldog ss92

hbk-razor ss95

FLAIR-VAdER STARCAdE 93"

 

Those are all excellent matches IMO

 

Hogan Vs Rock-WM X-8 is overated.

 

RVD Vs Jerry Lynn-Living Dangerously 99 is overated too

[Guest dreamer420]

both ladder matches between shawn and razor too. i loved the matches but neither of them were even **** let alone *****. the first one from wrestlemania 10 was the better of the two i would say.

[Guest bob_barron]

I just watched RVD-Jeff last night and it's a pretty sweet match. It was nice seeing a good ladder match w/o all the sick bumps.

 

I think Scorp-Benoit from Sup3 is overrated as well.

[Guest bob_barron]

The first time i saw the ladder match at WMX I didnt see the big deal with it but on second viewing I got really into it and realised that it is a ***** classic match.