Guest papacita Report post Posted July 4, 2002 Kane had the best I-C Title run since Benoit's in mid-2000, IMO. He wasn't a bad Champion at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest tombstone Report post Posted July 4, 2002 Depending on your definition Kane is also a grand slam winner as he has been World, Tag, Intercontinental and Harcore champion. HHH has been World, tag, Intercontinental and European Champion. HBK the same. Angle is close as he just needs to be tag champ. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest dreamer420 Report post Posted July 4, 2002 i think kane needs a europeon title win to be a grand slam champion. he could easily get it too but he should really be above that title. i think jericho is the ultimate champion in my books: wwe undisupted champion wwe ic champion wwe europeon champion wwe hardcore champion wwe tag team champion wcw heavyweight champion wcw television champion wcw cruiserweight champion ecw television champion that's a lot of fucking title right there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted July 4, 2002 Yet noone gives a rat's ass about him and he needs to cheat to beat motherfuckin John Cena. Not even Angle had to cheat to beat Cena!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest dreamer420 Report post Posted July 4, 2002 he's a heel. that's what heels do right? it also helps to put over cena which i'm sure jericho has no trouble doing. i know angle didn't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted July 4, 2002 Heels don't always cheat to win... And Angle put over Cena, according ot everyone on this website "due to the match alone", but still came out on top cleanly. I guess my point is just still that it doesn't matter what accomplishments Jericho has done, it's all a moot point now when it comes to him being over. It also brings me back to one of my favorite points when discussing the WWF, and that's to emphasize jsut how much one win or one loss does to your career. In any other sport, if you go on a terrible losing streak, you're pretty much out of the title hunt. That would work beautifully in wrestling as well.. Think of the possiblities.. And this relates to Jericho because I think if all those wins really really meant something, then how over he is with the crowd would reflect all those title wins as well. Also, in my opinion, just off the side, I think they turned Jericho heel at the wrong point in time. Right feud, wrong time. *sigh* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest dreamer420 Report post Posted July 4, 2002 is cheating to win really that big of a deal though. eddie guerrero used to have a shirt that said it and he used to make chavo wear it. anyway my point is you should worry about one match where jericho cheats to win, or even one match where he loses. jericho is high in the wwe right now and isn't at the point in his career where he has to worry about doing the job the odd time or two. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted July 4, 2002 I'm not sure where you see Jericho, but I see him as one of the weakest heels on the WWE Roster.. He's become nothing mroe than a glorified jobber to the stars, and when he has to cheat to beat a rookie, well I give him props for doing that, but I think Jericho still really needs to get over. Fuck, maybe they should turn him back face... As long as he doesn't start spewing out horrible catchphrases again... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest dreamer420 Report post Posted July 4, 2002 i still she him as one of the top guys in the wwe. he is always in feuds with the top talents in the company, and is usually main eventing every smackdown. his place is secure i would say, and if he extends his contract with the wwe he'll be pushed higher i bet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted July 4, 2002 I wouldn't exactly call Edge a top feud, or well how about that one-sided feud with HHH? Hogan would be good for Jericho, just because of the verbal sparring and because Jericho is the only guy besides Angle that could get a good match out of Hogan.. Hell, he's already done it twice! But I think Jericho's place in the WWE is not very secure, he's more like an afterthought that they promise big things to, but never deliver. Just look at all his past pay-per-views.. Wrestlemania: Headlining Undisputed Champ match (loss) Backlash: Nothing Judgment Day: HHH (loss) King Of The Ring: Quarterfinal matchup (loss) Vengeance: Edge (win/loss?) Sounds more to me like an overachieving midcarder... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Razor Roman Report post Posted July 4, 2002 he's a heel. that's what heels do right? it also helps to put over cena which i'm sure jericho has no trouble doing. i know angle didn't. HHH didn't have to cheat to beat Foley. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest M Nyland Report post Posted July 4, 2002 HHH didn't have to cheat to beat Foley. Stephanie says: "well we can't let HHH cheat...it would make him lose his heat and he would look bad...........now Chris I want you to put your feet on the ropes when you beat Hardcore Holly...." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ManKinnd Report post Posted July 4, 2002 My God everyone always brings up HHH beating Foley. That was the exception. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest M Nyland Report post Posted July 4, 2002 and look who that exception happened to.... I would say the same thing no matter who did it...but the fact that its HHH makes it that much worse... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AlwaysPissedOff Report post Posted July 4, 2002 Seeing that Foley was getting ready to retire, I'm sure he knew going in that he was jobbing anyway. Plus, the Rumble match was a friggin streetfight and the NWO match was a HIAC, so really, what the hell could be called cheating in those matches anyway? Some people think too much about this stuff... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted July 4, 2002 Considering that every title in the wwf is meaningless except for the world title (which WAS MEANINGLESS around Jerichos waist... thank you very much Steph and HHH) does it even matter that Jericho has held all these belts? Jericho held IC gold before Euro and Hardcore, that alone goes against the whole idea of the 'grand slam' (which is progression). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest evenflowDDT Report post Posted July 4, 2002 Plus, the Rumble match was a friggin streetfight and the NWO match was a HIAC, so really, what the hell could be called cheating in those matches anyway? Geez APO... don't you know that anytime HHH wins, there HAD to have been "backstage" cheating involved? I mean come on... he HOLDS DOWN PEOPLE... if that's not cheating, then I don't know what is, by golly. What kind of a smark are you? As for every title in the WWE being meaningless, let's be realistic here. Wrestling isn't exactly the world's best looked-upon sport, so even if we stiffed the hell out of each other and had great puro-style or mixed-martial arts matches all the time the titles would STILL be meaningless outside of the wrestling community. So, Jericho can win as many titles as he wants, and I hope he does, because I really do like him, but in the end, it's all meaningless except in the eyes of the fans. And, even though he's being "held down" or whatever, I think he has always been, and will always be over with the fans, whether as a heel or face, as a character, and over with the smarks as a wrestler. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AlwaysPissedOff Report post Posted July 4, 2002 Plus, the Rumble match was a friggin streetfight and the NWO match was a HIAC, so really, what the hell could be called cheating in those matches anyway? Geez APO... don't you know that anytime HHH wins, there HAD to have been "backstage" cheating involved? I mean come on... he HOLDS DOWN PEOPLE... if that's not cheating, then I don't know what is, by golly. What kind of a smark are you? LOL! I stand corrected. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted July 4, 2002 Considering that every title in the wwf is meaningless except for the world title (which WAS MEANINGLESS around Jerichos waist... thank you very much Steph and HHH) does it even matter that Jericho has held all these belts? Jericho held IC gold before Euro and Hardcore, that alone goes against the whole idea of the 'grand slam' (which is progression). That's exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. All those belts and al lthe times he held it is nothing now, thanks to the devaluing of all the titles. What's ironic though, is that ever since Steph and HHH booked their way to devaluing Chris Jericho as a champion, they devalued the belt itself as well, so therefore when HHH got his eventual win at Wrestlemania, noone gave much of a shit because a. HHH beats Chris Jericho everytime, so it's not a big deal, and b. Because the belt has been so devalued during Chris Jericho's run, noone cares that he's holding it. And before we start making comparisons to HHH getting the upperhand all the time over Chris Jericho to Austin getting over The Rock each and every single time, the biggest difference between those two feuds is that The Rock and Austin were already two huge proven draws when they went up against each other, while Jericho was HHH's bitch in the feuds. Oh, and by the way, I don't like using the Steph-HHH argument, this whole "holding people down" crap is the single most annoying thing on this board. It's not even funny when made into a joke, and I swear I roll my eyes every single time I see it mentioned, because noone knows absolute PROOF that this is happening, no matter how much evidence you all may you think have, it's all still PURE MARKISH SPECULATION. Thank You! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted July 4, 2002 As for every title in the WWE being meaningless, let's be realistic here. Wrestling isn't exactly the world's best looked-upon sport, so even if we stiffed the hell out of each other and had great puro-style or mixed-martial arts matches all the time the titles would STILL be meaningless outside of the wrestling community. So, Jericho can win as many titles as he wants, and I hope he does, because I really do like him, but in the end, it's all meaningless except in the eyes of the fans. And, even though he's being "held down" or whatever, I think he has always been, and will always be over with the fans, whether as a heel or face, as a character, and over with the smarks as a wrestler. I don't think that's the point. I think the point is, is that wrestling titles shoulkd mean something to WRESTLING FANS. I don't care what other people think, and hell, because we stuck with the program and still watch it, while other people look down on us for "watching that stupid/fake shit" I really don't give a fuck what other people think about our titles! And maybe even the point here is not to have it be like where the belts get soem value, but where the champion does. Noone gives a shit about HHH being champ or a face, or anything, since he just kinda runs around and creates UNBRIDLED FACE WHACKINESS~! with a sledgehammer. Undertaker's makign the championship and himself look great by defedning it constantly, putting on at least decent matches (which is saying a lot for the Undertaker), and getting young kids over in feuds. And back to Jericho, to me right now it's sounding like Johnny Stamboli is getting a bigger heel reaction than he is, but Jericho as a face, well he had pops that rivaled The Rock's and Austin's... And you all remember Unforgiven last year with that classic match between RVD and Jericho? (RVJ! Y2D!) Insanity. Maybe Jericho was a better heel back in WCW, but he has never... EEEEEEEEEEEEVER been more over than when he was a face. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted July 5, 2002 WM: Jericho was 2 spots away from the main event BACKLASH: Jericho was 1 spot away from the ME Insurrextion: Jericho was 1 spot away from the ME Judgement Day: Jericho was 2 spots away from the ME KOTR: Jericho lost first round, HHH didn’t job the title.* Fully Loaded: Jericho vs. HHH was 1 spot away from the ME Summerslam: Jericho is 4 spots away from the main event Unforgiven: Jericho was 4 spots away from the ME No Mercy: Jericho was 6 spots away from the ME Survivor Series: Jericho was 6 Spots away from the ME Armageddon: Jericho was 4 Spots away from the ME RR: Jericho was 3 Spots away from the ME NWO: Jericho was 5 Spots away from the ME WM X7: Jericho was *10* Spots away from the ME Here is some food for thought. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Human Fly Report post Posted July 5, 2002 It sure seemed like Jericho is on the fast track to getting buried after tonight. They might as well back the truck up now. First Jericho gets knocked out by a pimp smack. What was that all about, some open hand slap knocks him out? That was ridiculous. Then in his match with Cena Jericho gets all of maybe three or four offensive moves in (that's counting the attempted Walls of Jericho), and none in succession. It was 1 Jericho move, 10 for Cena. Finally Jericho hits the "flashback" or whatever and gets the pin. He had his feet on the ropes, but by the way Cena was selling it didn't look like it would have mattered so I'll give credit for that. But it was almost like Jericho was the rookie and had to pull out the fluke victory. Then after the match he gets punked out AGAIN by Cena! So Jericho gets punked out before the match by a rookie, pulls a fluke victory against the rookie in a match where he has hardly any offense, and then gets punked once again after the match. I'm all for building new stars don't get me wrong, but why not have Cena beat up someone like D-Von? Cena is already higher on the card then Jericho seemingly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest SuperTonyJaymz Report post Posted July 5, 2002 Triple H didn't "hold down" Mick Foley in the hiac/street fight. Foley voluntered to job. Jesus, dumbass hhhaters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest M Nyland Report post Posted July 5, 2002 Triple H didn't "hold down" Mick Foley in the hiac/street fight. Foley voluntered to job. Jesus, dumbass hhhaters. i know Foley volunteered.......he was going to have to do that sooner or later...i'm actually glad it was then... and I might be a dumbass...but not cause I'm a HHHater...(i haven't even hit the HHHate level yet i don't think) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smeghead Report post Posted July 5, 2002 Considering that every title in the wwf is meaningless except for the world title (which WAS MEANINGLESS around Jerichos waist... thank you very much Steph and HHH) does it even matter that Jericho has held all these belts? Jericho held IC gold before Euro and Hardcore, that alone goes against the whole idea of the 'grand slam' (which is progression). HBK held Tag, IC, and World before he held Euro. Grand Slam has never been about progression. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly Report post Posted July 5, 2002 Wasn't Jericho's heat in WCW due in part to using technicalities to win matches? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted July 5, 2002 Wasn't Jericho's heat in WCW due in part to using technicalities to win matches? Eh? Explain.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest benoitrules2000 Report post Posted July 5, 2002 No, like hhh he was a dominant heel who garnered massive heel heat due to his ability. Take a look at his track record: In his cruiserweight reign from early-mid 98 Janurary-beat mysterio CLEANLY feburary-beat juventud CLEANLY march-beat malenko CLEANLY april-beat iaukeia CLEANLY may-Malenko finally beats him to a huge pop which was a testament to jericho's brilliance to get malenko so over as a face despite not doing anything in two months! So if the wwe had given him that kind of a push he wouldn't have had all his heat squashed like right now, but hhh is banging steph so what the fuck ya gonna do? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ripper Report post Posted July 5, 2002 Because god knows HHH never went over anyone and never got a gods push before he was dating Steph. [stops and thinks of how long he was dating Chyna and still being pushed] oh...wait. Maybe Chyna was on the booking committee!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Big McLargeHuge Report post Posted July 5, 2002 No, like hhh he was a dominant heel who garnered massive heel heat due to his ability. Take a look at his track record: In his cruiserweight reign from early-mid 98 Janurary-beat mysterio CLEANLY feburary-beat juventud CLEANLY march-beat malenko CLEANLY april-beat iaukeia CLEANLY may-Malenko finally beats him to a huge pop which was a testament to jericho's brilliance to get malenko so over as a face despite not doing anything in two months! So if the wwe had given him that kind of a push he wouldn't have had all his heat squashed like right now, but hhh is banging steph so what the fuck ya gonna do? Man, I wish Vince would just recycle this angle. It was fucking brilliant. They kind of have it going with the Canadian Mafia, but if Jericho were able to play off Flair like he did JJ, it would fucking rule. He would cheat like a mofo to win, then lose, find a way out of giving up the strap, then in the rematch go over clean. I can just smell his heat coming back to him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
