Guest HartFan86 Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 Alright, I'll keep this to the point. I just finished watching the nWo DVD again (first time since the nWo was announced done by Vince) and to say I'm shocked and almost confused watching it again would be an understatement. Shocked? Yeah. Confused? Yeah. Shocked and confused on how much went down after this DVD was made. Basically, the end of the DVD focuses on how Hall/Nash/X-Pac (The newest member at the time of the end of the DVD) will take over the WWF. Let's take a look at EVERYTHING related to the nWo that has happened since: -Scott Hall is realeased from the WWF for reasons I'm still confused on. -Big Show joins the nWo turning on Steve Austin. -Kevin Nash tears his bicep and is out for 3 months. -Booker T has a "cup of coffee" reign in the nWo. -Kevin Nash returns to do backstage stuff. -Shawn Michaels returns the WWF and the nWo. -Kevin Nash tears his quad in a 10 man tag on Raw and is out for months. -X-Pac put on an "absense of leave" and is now appreantely has been realeased from the WWF. -Vince McMahon kills off the nWo. Wow. Who would of thought back in February all of THIS would of happened leading up to the final resting place of the nWo. I remember being so excited and shocked at seeing some of the old WCW footage of the nWo in the promos leading up to their arrival. It looked like the WWF was going to become bigger than ever. Then Mania hit...and it just seemed to wore off once Hogan left the group to become a babyface again. It's quite funny....in the DVD, Scott Hall & Hulk Hogan talk about how adding the new members to the group killed it's heat....and that was the exact thing the WWE did. All in all....I don't honestly miss the nWo. Sure, they will definately live in Wrestling History for years and years. Sure, at one time or another...everyone marked out for the group. Sure, at one time or another....everyone was excited or "entertained" that the fact they would be back in the WWF for one last run. Now...I look back and say "What a run...but thank god they are done." I remember reading a bunch of people (not from this site) saying how bringing back the 3 is the best for business and the WWF would be better than ever. I'm sure Vince looks at himself and kicks his own ass for signing the 3 and doing the nWo angle again. How weird life turns out. Right now, I'm listening to "Rockhouse" (the title of the nWo production theme) on the early morning of August 12, 2002 and I can only think of one quote and that would be of Paul Heyman's thoughts on Eric Bischoff's debut in the WWE (though it has nothing to do with the nWo...I feel it works just as well) and that was: "What a fucking business." Indeed, Paul...indeed. Rant Over...4 life.
Guest Kid Kablam Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 Other than their out of ring antics, the group had nothing going for them. THAT is what happened. They had no decent workers, and once the " Fuck you" appeal wore off, there was nothing left. Which is what will happen if WWE continues to ignore workers and hire POS wrestlers.
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 I can't remember anything happening that all the people who were down on the NWO coming in didn't say would happen: Hall wouldn't last...CHECK Hogan would get the title...CHECK The title reign would bomb...CHECK NAsh would play politics...CHECK We'd have to see X Pac get a push...CHECK They'd blow the angle...CHECK Seriously...with the exception of Nash's injuries...it's all gone exactly like most people said it would.
Guest jester Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 I'm suprised that some people keep asking for a Horsemen and Raven's Flock revival. After seeing how badly the NWO went, do you really want them trying to bring back another old stable? I think it's best to leave old stables behind and try to build some new ones.
Guest Incandenza Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 I'm suprised that some people keep asking for a Horsemen and Raven's Flock revival. After seeing how badly the NWO went, do you really want them trying to bring back another old stable? I think it's best to leave old stables behind and try to build some new ones. I think the difference here is that the Flock or the Horsemen--neither of which I'm too keen on reforming--could be populated with wrestlers who were able to actually work, and could get over if they weren't so already. The only active members of nWo near the end were Big Show and X-Pac. Of course it was gonna fail with those two dipshits on board. Yes, there are other factors involved--like being given shitty angles--but the members themselves played a part in its failure.
Guest Brian Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 Hall got fired for drinking (including prior to WrestleMania). He said he couldn't. He said he was taking a pill that wouldn't allow him to do so. But he did.
Guest HartFan86 Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 Hall got fired for drinking (including prior to WrestleMania). He said he couldn't. He said he was taking a pill that wouldn't allow him to do so. But he did. That's what I assumed. All I figured was that he raised big hell over in Europe and on the "Plane Ride from Hell" and they let him go. I'm surprised they didn't fire him after Mania. Oh well.
Guest Austin3164life Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 I remember when news broke out of their first arrival to the WWF (as the NWO, not their former WWF personas). Most people on this board were content with the idea, because it was the nostalgia factor of seeing three older popular figures in wrestling history (especially the return of Hogan). While I understand that the NWO and Hogan returning was a markout to most, I fail to see how mostly everyone thought it was a good idea. I think it was one of the WORST (yes worst) ideas that Vince has ever come up with. In trying to gain more heat for the WWF, he brings in the heat-killers. Three guys who don't deserve any kind of push (much less a World Title reign[!]), but who really need to give the rub to younger guys. While the Orange Goblin has done that (to a certain extent), the NWO was a waste of money and talent, and I'm sure Vince is thinking about that right now. Hogan giving a rub to a newer star wouldn't really do anything, because Hogan is a much older wreslter with nothing to prove anymore, whereas if RVD went over Triple H or The Rock cleanly at a big event, it would mean something.
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 On the bright side... Hogan has been a good little soldier. He's put over the following people clean as a whistle: The Rock HHH Kurt Angle Brock Lesnar And he put over Taker for the title in a less than clean fashion... either way he gets my gold star for excellence in the field of doing your J.O.B. Now if only HHH and Taker would do the same.
Guest Austin3164life Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 either way he gets my gold star for excellence in the field of doing your J.O.B. While I tend to admire Hogan's work ethic lately, of putting over younger guys than him, everyone he's put over really doesn't need it (save for Lesnar). Even Lesnar doesn't need it. Of course the fans know he'll beat Hogan. The thing is, what Hogan is doing is commendable, but it's too little too late. Had Hogan been doing this circa 1991-1993, then I would've liked the man. It doesn't really help business much when Hogan puts over established wrestlers.
Guest RickyChosyu Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 either way he gets my gold star for excellence in the field of doing your J.O.B. While I tend to admire Hogan's work ethic lately, of putting over younger guys than him, everyone he's put over really doesn't need it (save for Lesnar). Even Lesnar doesn't need it. Of course the fans know he'll beat Hogan. The thing is, what Hogan is doing is commendable, but it's too little too late. Had Hogan been doing this circa 1991-1993, then I would've liked the man. It doesn't really help business much when Hogan puts over established wrestlers. Oh, anyone can use a clean pin over Hogan, if it's in the right context. Once you do that one big clean job, it's over and done with after that, and the aura is pretty much gone. Eric Bischoff learned this the hard way, when he put Golberg over Hogan on free TV and then put the title on Hogan later. It just doesn't work. Had Bischoff given Sting that one clean pin in '97, things would have been a whole lot diferent. Well, maybe they wouldn't, you never know. Anyway, it's the same with his WWE run. Rock got the big pin over him, and then Vince tried to put the title on him, and, suprise suprise, it bombed. The Angle submision, even combined with the fact that he had never tapped out in the WWF, wasn't even that big a deal becaue after they killed Hogan's aura, he had nothing left. Same with Rick Flair.
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 I guess we're all lucky then that Taker and HHH protect their aura's. What? Everyone else was thinking it.
Guest Shaved Bear Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 Hogan's title reign, wasnt it done as a hotshot to get the belt off HHH
Guest Jobber of the Week Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 What happened? It was a bad idea. Here, let me show you what I mean with a little skit I stole from the old "Animaniacs" cartoon: Here's the difference between a good idea and a bad idea:
Guest DJ Jeff Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 The nWo was a good faction between No Way Out(when they first arrived in the WWE) and Wrestlemania 18. After Wrestlemania 18, the wheels started falling apart, beginning with Hogan leaving the nWo to bring back Hulkamania. Between Wrestlemania 18 and Backlash, the nWo were rebuilding for the first of many times by replacing Hogan with X-Pac. That wasn't too great as the WWE later found out. Then, between Backlash and Judgment Day, the Big Show joined the nWo just because he teamed up with Flair to help him fued with Austin. This was also when Hall was fired from the WWE, and the nWo was down to Nash, X-Pac, and the Big Show. Oh, and Booker T joined for a few weeks. Finally, between Judgment Day and Vengeance, the nWo was on a last attempt so to speak to rebuild. It started when Nash announced that he was the leader of the nWo, and then later announced that HBK was joining the nWo. Lastly, the final blow to the nWo came on the dreadful RAW when Nash injured himself in his first match back. The following week on RAW, Vince McMahon announced that the nWo was done. There, that's what happened.
Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 Taking into consideration how many angles have been tossed into the garbage can, how can any be surprised that the NWO was so short lived?
Guest jester Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 behind and try to build some new ones. I think the difference here is that the Flock or the Horsemen--neither of which I'm too keen on reforming--could be populated with wrestlers who were able to actually work That's assuming the factions reunite with the members who have a history with it. I'd be afraid that WWE would try to "improve" them. For example, picture this new group of Horsemen: Chris Benoit Ric Flair Arn Anderson Triple H Don't think they wouldn't do it if it occured to them. And if HHH joined the horsemen (and probably became its leader), there are certain people who'd be in agony here. Keep the old stables retired with good memories, I say. Don't bring them back.
Guest bob_barron Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 the nWo sucked from NWO to WM partially because of Austin. They're first two shows they kicked Austin's ass and killed Rocky. Then on Smackdown! Austin kidnapped Hall and Hogan and Nash were like scared for their lives. The austin-Hall feud and Austin subsequently squashing Hall really hurt the nWo.
Guest notJames Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 It was financial suicide on McMahon's part to think he could cash in on a dead gimmick to revitalize business. Apart from selling some t-shirts, no good could have come out of making three has-beens their money-making angle, especially with the piss-poor writing staff they had/have. I think Austin did the world a favour in derailing the nWo bullet train. Thankfully the Canuck fans (Hogan), alcohol (Hall), and karma (Nash) did the rest.
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 How about: Benoit Flair Guerraro Angle as the new Horsemen?
Guest the 1inch punch Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 [i think the difference here is that the Flock or the Horsemen--neither of which I'm too keen on reforming--could be populated with wrestlers who were able to actually work, and could get over if they weren't so already. I was gonna say that
Guest the 1inch punch Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 On the bright side... Hogan has been a good little soldier. He's put over the following people clean as a whistle: The Rock HHH Kurt Angle Brock Lesnar And he put over Taker for the title in a less than clean fashion... either way he gets my gold star for excellence in the field of doing your J.O.B. Now if only HHH and Taker would do the same. If he had jobbed to Brock "clean as a whistle", he would have laid down 1, 2, 3 for the F5
Guest DJ Jeff Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 If the WWE did reform the Horsemen, here's who should be in it: Benoit Guerrero Angle Kidman This is what I would hope the Horsemen would look like. However, after what happened with the nWo, the WWE should just leave the old stables to rest.
Guest Anglesault Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 The austin-Hall feud and Austin subsequently squashing Hall really hurt the nWo. Correction. The Austin Hall feud and Hall showing up to Mania drunk/hungover/whatever hurt the nWo. Benoit Guerrero Angle Kidman You want to do a 4 Horsemen...without Ric Flair?
Guest notJames Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 Stables at this point have outlived their usefulness. In the case of the Horsemen, they were essentially Flair's thugs, beating up anyone who dared challenge Flair's championship reigns. Having a Horsemen-esque group in the uppercard today is useless, since most of the top contenders (Angle, RVD, etc.) are good enough to not need anyone to help them. it's been like this for a long time now, and I don't think it needs to be changed. Midcard stables are fine, since it would give guys airtime when there's not a lot to dole out, but rehashing old names for nostalgia's sake would only prove the WW_'s inability to think of something new. Besides, the original Horsemen were the only ones who lived up to the name. Anything after that was just vapour (yes, even when Malenko and Benoit were in it). Same with the Flock, unless they're willing to delve into that pseudo homo vibe they were going for with Raven, Stevie as his bitch, Saturn as his Village People-esque heavy, etc, just to shake things up a bit. But of course, the average wrestling fan is a little too uptight and homophobic to give it any more credence than Chuckabilly or Goldust.
Guest notJames Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 Yeah, Unkle Kracker Rulz!!! (Actually, they don't.)
Guest Kid Kablam Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 XFactor is a good example of a good use of a stable... they just gave it to the wrong guy to lead. But that's what stables should be used for, elevating guys who are midcarders and need a rub. Of course, giving it to X-Pac was a bad idea. What a little shit.
Guest Jobber of the Week Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 You want to do a 4 Horsemen...without Ric Flair? He has to retire SOME time. And it'll be sooner than later.
Guest converge241 Posted August 12, 2002 Report Posted August 12, 2002 If they wanted to push the atletic aspects of wrestling and college backgrounds (like ross was talking about in one of the reports), they should make a stable with Brock, Shelton (who looked great on Heat btw), maybe Cena (i know he doesnt have the amatuer background..at least not that i know of) and Angle. Just cast them as above all the "entertainment" and all they care about is the titles. And no they wouldnt be The Varsity Club to any smartass. Like what they were going to do with Shamrock, Blackman, and Severn as "The Shooters". Just have them dominate as real life people out to win.
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