What a show!

[Guest Tim Cooke]

Survivor Series sucked.

 

Everyone knew it would suck ass. You're either really dense if you thought otherwise or mentally ill if you think the show was okay.

 

The WEEEEEE has shown that they have gone as high as they can on the shock level, as well as the stunt level; that is unless they bring in some lousy Indy CZW guys to kill themselves on barbed wire and light tubes.

 

The glass ceiling isn't only a term that refers to the level that wrestlers will get to on the WEEEEE food chain. It also refers to the level of wrestling that will entertain fans and sustain heat.

 

Watching some 1988 NWA over the weekend for a project, the simplicity of the product lead to everything really working well.

 

Well defined heels who got tremendous heel heat. Beloved babyfaces that were cheered throughout the whole match. Simple wrestling sequences that were entertaining and fullfilling, as well as logical. The workers were using one brain for every sequence so everything was fluid and nothing was blown.

 

Those days have fully gone away in the WEEEEEE. They are making all the mistakes that that old #2 company made.................................and they aren't around anymore.

 

McMahon can't please his fanbase. He has exposed his company with the various TLC matches, bad interviews that used to be cheered, bad wrestling.

 

If the WEEEEE dies, it won't matter to me. The real talent will always have somewhere to wrestle for a nice paycheck. The lousy ones will get what they deserve, nothing.

 

Tim

[Guest IB2BLACK]

What's your point?

[Guest EL BRUJ0]

Umm... that the WWEEEEE! sucks.

[Guest Ram]

Survivor Series sucked.

 

Everyone knew it would suck ass. You're either really dense if you thought otherwise or mentally ill if you think the show was okay.

Fuck. you.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I agree with the first post

[Guest SP-1]

I echo Ram's sentiments. Survivor Series was a solid show as far as I'm concerned. Not super bombad great, but it was solid and entertaining.

 

You have to be incredibly dense or mentally ill to think that your personal assessment is the end all, be all of what the show was.

 

SP

[Guest snowfan]

I agree with the first post

The truth hurts some folks...

 

Vince keeps wanting to party like it's 1997 and it is not.

 

Not only are we smarks unhappy, but more ominously the marks aren't happy with Vinny's "markish" booking...

 

to quote the Warrior-Philosopher JR: Things are about to get really hot here....bah gawd!

[Guest RenegadeX28]

I liked the show alot. That Dudleyz reformation was a swerve. The tag match was great. The debut of Steiner was ok. HBK winning the title, what a sight.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

Forgot to put this in the original post.

 

The quality of the wrestling can't go any higher. The past month on Smackdown is the best we will see out of the product. And when push comes to shove, those matches are fun and perfectly above average, but really have nothing to hold to the vast amount of US footage that precedes it.

 

I have enjoyed the tag team matches, but they don't hold water when really broken down.

 

There is the possibility that they will wrestle again at that level, but they will never be able to take it to that next level until a total restructure takes place. I think that restructure won't happen until it's too little, too late.

 

Tim, wishing some money mark would actually put together a second promotion that offered an alternative to the WEEEEE, with actual wrestling.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

I have enjoyed the tag team matches, but they don't hold water when really broken down.

 

Yeah, but they are on free TV. They are forgettable, but they are amazing for a WWE weekly show.

[Guest dreamer420]

If the WEEEEE dies, it won't matter to me. The real talent will always have somewhere to wrestle for a nice paycheck. The lousy ones will get what they deserve, nothing.

Wow. What a wrestling fan you are eh?

 

Whiner.

[Guest FeArHaVoC]

You're all fools if you really think the WWE is going to fold and Die.

[Guest dreamer420]

What does that make people who hope and wish the WWE would die?

[Guest CED Ordonez]

Well here's the largest post I'll probably ever place in the WWE folder.

 

-The Six-Man Table Elimination Tables match was a good opener. A spotfest, but a very nice spotfest and the eliminations were nice to watch. The mark in me exploded with the D-Von Dudley surprise run-in.

 

-Noble and Kidman's Cruiserweight match was, in my opinion, the most solid match of the night and, I'll get crucified for saying this, my match of the night. Good technical bout with some near falls and a very sick DDT spot. Can't really see where they're going with the Noble losing streak though.

 

-Trish and Victoria's Hardcore Women's Title match had some nice spots and props to Victoria for continuing despite a hardway nose bleed. I'm almost certain that the mirror was supposed to come in play, and the audible of the fire extinguisher (and its misfire) leading to the finish fell flat.

 

-Brock vs Big Show: You could see Heyman's turn from a mile away if you listened to the semantics of his pre-match promo. Brock won me over with the power moves and especially the F-5. Understandably short, but I really wish they would've gone with something other than putting the belt around one of the least credible wrestlers to hold it.

 

-The Three-way Elimination Tag Match scared me right from the start with Rey's botched spot. He just laid there and I was really afraid it was serious in those few seconds. The Schoolboy/German Suplex was something to behold. Angle and Benoit being the initial elimination took me out of the competition. Not to insult the workers that finished the match, but nothing really clicked after that point, if at all during that match.

 

-Steiner's debut was expected after Harvard Chris and Matt Hardy went on and on with their cheap heat promo. I was heavily amused when MSG gave Rick's dog bark "chant" to Scott. The big ball of roids hidden in Steiner's arm still scares me.

 

-I know the HHHaters loved the fact that HHH got the only promo out of those involved in the main event, with Shawn getting cut off by RNN and everyone else settling for warm-up shots.

 

-The main event was surprisingly and depressingly heatless for a majority of the match. The ugliest sight of the Elimination Chamber was when HHH nearly fell out of the flimsily supported cage door. I think my friend said it best when he said, "That's some lock for an inescapable structure". RVD and Booker T's early outs had the same effect on me as Angle and Benoit in the respect that it confirmed that it was going to be either HHH or HBK. I fell into a lull until it was finally down to the original dX sans Chyna. Almost had a heart attack with the Pedigree false finish but marked for the Sweet Chin Music and the celebration. Still it's another nostalgia tour that will undoubtedly fizzle into damn near nothing once the initial aura fades. It's cynical, but it's true.

 

All in all, I left the sports bar feeling very underwhelmed. The triple threat match, which was the main reason I went, didn't seem to click at all. In retrospect, I think sometime between Big Show winning the SD! belt in a dubious manner and Angle/Benoit being eliminated early was where the show fell flat.

[Guest HartFan86]

I enjoyed Survivor Series despite the horrible booking. Match quality may have been alright, but it was worth getting.

[Guest HartFan86]

Watching some 1988 NWA over the weekend for a project, the simplicity of the product lead to everything really working well.

And they are now out of business. Think of that.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

I'm a huge fan of wrestling....but the WEEEE isn't good wrestling.

 

As for the guys comment about the NWA being out of business, your point sir?

 

They didn't go out of business the next year, it was 13 years later. The comparison was made to show how simple works and how it produced something that will be seen as a standard (for tag matches).

 

But all I am is a whiner?

 

Tim, who also has never seen a ***** (as close ot perfect as you can get) WWF/E match.

[Guest HartFan86]

I'm just saying they may have done the better wrestling and your points are valid, but the WEEEEEE survived and NWA didn't.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

If it is so important to you that WCW didn't survive and WWE has, then I ask you this. RIght now, the WEE is doing everything that WCW did to put them out of business. Older talent holding down people, stupid and illogical booking, bad angles, rushing along angles and stories to hope to pop a good gate without a long term plan.

 

I was a WCW fan. But they died a death they fully deserved. I lived through that death, from the 40+ weeks of defeating WWF in the ratings, to becoming laughed at by EVERYONE during Vince Russo's 2 major runs.

 

I see the same thing in WWE today. If you asked me if WCW could ever go out of business at one point, I would have told you no fucking way. I see the same things happening in the WEEE today, only I don't really care as much.

 

So goes the quote "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

 

I doubt the WWE will learn that.

 

Tim, noting how WWE took a huge loss (don't have the exact numbers on hand) from there 1st Quarter stocks from 2002...and the long term forecast doesn't look much better.

[Guest HartFan86]

They aren't out of business yet and until they do, people can say whatever they want. Numbers sucked in 1995-1996 but they got thru that. If they go out of business, they got out of business....but they aren't yet.

[Guest HartFan86]

Oh, and I'm not trying to take the fact off that the booking is fucking horrible because it is. It's just that they'll get thru it because it seems like Vince can always do it.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

NWA isn't out of business.

 

WCW is.

 

NWA isn't even a federation, it was a group of heads of territories.

 

When WCW decided to make the WCW title, NWA pulled their title out and went back to supporting indy territories. The title is currently held by the Truth in TNA.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

And it seemed like with Ted Turner's wealth of cash, WCW would never go under.

 

I am well aware that WWE has not gone out of business yet. I am not an idiot.

 

I am not even saying they will go out of business, which I haven't stated once. I have said that if they keep down this path, which has been going on for a year plus, it certainly doesn't look good.

 

When you add 1 +1, you get 2. That's my logic. Looking at the trends and everything else, my logic makes sense, whether you want to believe it or not.

 

BTW, in 1996/1997, when WWF was on the verge of elimination, they had one thing working for them. Competition. Competition keeps business healthy. They capitalized on WCW's mistakes and took advantage.

 

The same can't be said for the 2002 US wrestling environment.

 

Tim

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

*grabs popcorn and watches as someone who doesn't enjoy WWE programming has a conversation with the guy who enjoys everything*

[Guest HartFan86]

*grabs popcorn and watches as someone who doesn't enjoy WWE programming has a conversation with the guy who enjoys everything*

Uh, no? I hated the booking last night, but I enjoyed the show itself and so did all the 7 friends of mine I watched it with. I hate the product right now considering what they could be doing. Point I'm trying to make.....I don't like everything in the WWE at all despite what you say. Some of the stuff I just can't stand. I'm just loyal, that's all.

 

But I have my opinion as much as anyone, so there's no point.

[Guest HartFan86]

BTW, in 1996/1997, when WWF was on the verge of elimination, they had one thing working for them. Competition. Competition keeps business healthy. They capitalized on WCW's mistakes and took advantage.

 

Which is the truth. So, Mr. Cooke, do you think there will be any legit competion for the WWE anytime soon?

[Guest Tim Cooke]

Of course there won't be any competition. Business is down. Wrestling is in a MAJOR recline.

 

The want for an alternative is clear. But no one seems to be able to get one working.

 

Getting a TV contract these days is hard due to wrestling being viewed as not profitable anymore (due to WWE's declining ratings), which can be argued, but that is for another thread.

 

Also, with the "gay wedding" and necrophilia angles, advertisers want nothing to do with wrestling, even if it isn't vulgar crudeness.

 

Tim, remembering that Nitro had a 3.1 rating in Dec of 1999. One year prior, they had a 5.0. Last weeks RAw had a 3.1, A year before, they were in the healthy 5's. Coincidence, I doubt it.

[Guest HartFan86]

Who do you think would step up if WWE did go out of business (figuring there's too many wrestlers out there in America to just be sitting at home for the rest of their lives.)? I mean, obviously it would have to be someone with a big pocket...but any ideas?

[Guest Tim Cooke]

I don't know.

 

I doubt anyone for a while. I think we would see another regional movement with regional red gaining momentum.

 

Angle, Benoit, Guerrero, etc all have great paying financial jobs waiting for them in Japan if they went them.

 

Tim

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

Eh.....they need me.