Why did you think RVD was more than side story?

[Guest Downhome]

I told you people in more than one thread that RVD had NO CHANCE IN HELL that he'd beat HBK for the World Title, as it was only a set up for HHH to return to get revenge on HBK. Then, many of you said that last week was a set up for the three way for the upcoming December PPV, and once again I said that RVD would be nothing more than a pawn in the angle. Well RAW has came and went once again, and what did I see? Well...

 

...RVD once again played his part as a pawn, simply used to further the HBK/HHH feud, while getting nothing at all out of it for himself. When HBK actually put his hand down for three as HHH pinned RVD, I couldn't help but laugh out loud for a good few minutes. I found it funny, and simply could not contain my amusement. RVD, once again, was used, abused, and pushed to the side. RVD didn't stay in the ring after he was pinned, to get his revenge against HBK or HHH, no, not at all. He simply rolled out, walked up the ramp, and left, period. That's his job right now people, and you best accept it right now...

 

...lest you be dissapointed week, after week, after week.

 

Untill RVD works on his promos, mic skills, etc... you will never see him seriously pushed to the main event, NEVER. It does not matter how loud fans cheer for him, it will not matter how great an in ring performer he is, and it certainly will never matter how much we sit here and complain. The fact is this...

 

...RVD is the certified pawn in the WWE. When in need of cheep pops, they'll throw the guy out, just to get the fans hopes up. Once he improves his talking, perhaps they'll push him, but it will not happen (SERIOUSLY), untill this. Hell, they might even hand him the title on a whim one day, as he is now. But I assure you, it will not be a true run as champion, and it will not be long, and it will not be of any importance at all, and in the end will make him look a fool, just as seemingly his every angle in the main events, have done up to this point.

 

Sincerely,

...Downhome...

[Guest EricMM]

Are you telling me that HHH gives a better promo than RVD? The Undertaker? Kane?

 

I mean seriously. Not all the ME wrestlers can talk. HHH is not the Rock, at all. And we all KNOW how well Jericho got by being the perfect package.

 

He could have been the next Rocky.

[Guest razazteca]

I still say get RVD a manager to handle the talking and promos, RVD can throw out a cuss word in every promo once in a while for cheap heat.

 

RVD might as well just return to tag team matches with Jeff Hardy since there are no secondary titles other than the tag team one to chase after.

[Guest Downhome]

Are you telling me that HHH gives a better promo than RVD? The Undertaker? Kane?

Yeah, that's what I'm telling you. I may enjoy RVD's high like tone more than the other guys some of the time, but for the most part, I do not hear him as a world champion at all. Now, don't get me wrong...

 

...the majority of my saying this is me playing the devils advocate, so just bare with me.

 

HHH may bore people by saying the same thing sometimes, but him and the others guys do seem a bit more intimidating. RVD sounds like some "dude" just off of the street, and that my friends is not what WWE is really looking for. I can't understand why they wouldn't push him anyhow, since he IS (but it's fading, slowly but surely), one of the most over performers right now.

[Guest Downhome]

I still say get RVD a manager to handle the talking and promos, RVD can throw out a cuss word in every promo once in a while for cheap heat.

 

RVD might as well just return to tag team matches with Jeff Hardy since there are no secondary titles other than the tag team one to chase after.

I agree 100%, period. As I was watching his promo last night, I said the very same thing to my cousin last night. If he got a manager, someone who had true chemistry with him, THEN he'd be ready to be pushed seriously at the moment.

[Guest humongous2002]

If Vince wanted RVD to get a real push he would do anything to get him over, but he is not an RVD fan and RVD is not a hoss. HHH,Taker,Brock,Kane what they have in common? bad mic skills, hosses and guys that are being pushed down our throats everytime we see them, so the fact that RVD lacks mic skills and thats why he wont get a main event push is nothing but bullshit, the people still pop for him whether Vince likes it or not.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

I don't understand where all this character and talent Smarks see in RVD is coming from. The guy currently is getting in about 10 words a night, and that's a record since they usually don't even give him the mic. The delivery ain't mindblowing, either.

 

As for the ringwork, the flippy-flippy stuff and Rolling Thunder and whatnot are visually impressive, but I'm starting to notice the spots are becoming repetative (such as the thing where the opponent is in the corner, he jumps at them, falls on his back, and kicks them over with his feet. If it's blocked and he's thrown backwards he does some handstands.)

 

I think what's even worse is that over on SmackDown they have more guys ready and waiting for a piece of gold than they know what to do with (ignoring the oddness of circumstance of who's actually wearing the belt right now)

[Guest Downhome]

If Vince wanted RVD to get a real push he would do anything to get him over, but he is not an RVD fan and RVD is not a hoss. HHH,Taker,Brock,Kane what they have in common? bad mic skills, hosses and guys that are being pushed down our throats everytime we see them, so the fact that RVD lacks mic skills and thats why he wont get a main event push is nothing but bullshit, the people still pop for him whether Vince likes it or not.

Then why did HBK, Angle, etc... get the World Title? They most certain aren't hosses. They proved in the ring with their skill, and they proved they can go on the mic just as well. Hell, even Chris Jericho had a respectable run as the World Champion, and he most certainly isn't a big guy.

 

RVD just does not "ooze champion". When he speaks it seems as if he is no more than a fan on pot, nor does he have any type of range for facial expressions.

 

When he improves on the mic, or gets a manager, then he'll be pushed seriously.

[Guest Downhome]

I don't understand where all this character and talent Smarks see in RVD is coming from. The guy currently is getting in about 10 words a night, and that's a record since they usually don't even give him the mic. The delivery ain't mindblowing, either.

Exactly, that's the entire point here. I'm certain that there are more than a few here at this very forum who could cut a better promo than RVD, and that's sad but true.

 

I like hearing him talk though, it amuses me when he does so, because it's just so funny. I will admit however that it doesn't sound like a world champion, or someone who could go head to head on the mic in a promo against someone who is obviously better at it, even if you don't like the other guy.

[Guest humongous2002]

If Vince wanted RVD to get a real push he would do anything to get him over, but he is not an RVD fan and RVD is not a hoss. HHH,Taker,Brock,Kane what they have in common? bad mic skills, hosses and guys that are being pushed down our throats everytime we see them, so the fact that RVD lacks mic skills and thats why he wont get a main event push is nothing but bullshit, the people still pop for him whether Vince likes it or not.

Then why did HBK, Angle, etc... get the World Title? They most certain aren't hosses. They proved in the ring with their skill, and they proved they can go on the mic just as well. Hell, even Chris Jericho had a respectable run as the World Champion, and he most certainly isn't a big guy.

 

RVD just does not "ooze champion". When he speaks it seems as if he is no more than a fan on pot, nor does he have any type of range for facial expressions.

 

When he improves on the mic, or gets a manager, then he'll be pushed seriously.

Two words: homegrown talent.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

HHH,Taker,Brock,Kane what they have in common? bad mic skills, hosses and guys that are being pushed down our throats everytime we see them, so the fact that RVD lacks mic skills and thats why he wont get a main event push is nothing but bullshit, the people still pop for him whether Vince likes it or not.

 

Brock actually has good mic skills. He is probably number 3 on Smackdown behind Angle & Heyman.

[Guest Downhome]

If Vince wanted RVD to get a real push he would do anything to get him over, but he is not an RVD fan and RVD is not a hoss. HHH,Taker,Brock,Kane what they have in common? bad mic skills, hosses and guys that are being pushed down our throats everytime we see them, so the fact that RVD lacks mic skills and thats why he wont get a main event push is nothing but bullshit, the people still pop for him whether Vince likes it or not.

Then why did HBK, Angle, etc... get the World Title? They most certain aren't hosses. They proved in the ring with their skill, and they proved they can go on the mic just as well. Hell, even Chris Jericho had a respectable run as the World Champion, and he most certainly isn't a big guy.

 

RVD just does not "ooze champion". When he speaks it seems as if he is no more than a fan on pot, nor does he have any type of range for facial expressions.

 

When he improves on the mic, or gets a manager, then he'll be pushed seriously.

Two words: homegrown talent.

I'm sorry, I forgot that Chris Jericho was born and breed WWE and was grown from the roots up by them.

 

That has nothing to do with this, can you not just admit that RVD is weak in certain areas, and it is more than hindering him?

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

I like hearing him talk though, it amuses me when he does so, because it's just so funny. I will admit however that it doesn't sound like a world champion, or someone who could go head to head on the mic in a promo against someone who is obviously better at it, even if you don't like the other guy.

To me, I just don't see him ever successfully having what someone around here was calling a ticket-selling promo. His style does not lend itself to creating an epic feeling to the atmosphere, and anyone trying to cut a serious promo with him will have to actually work around that.

 

I mean, they could do like Rhyno and send him to improv schools and the like to improve his mic work, but at his very best he's going to sound like The Rock on sedatives.

[Guest Downhome]

I like hearing him talk though, it amuses me when he does so, because it's just so funny. I will admit however that it doesn't sound like a world champion, or someone who could go head to head on the mic in a promo against someone who is obviously better at it, even if you don't like the other guy.

To me, I just don't see him ever successfully having what someone around here was calling a ticket-selling promo. His style does not lend itself to creating an epic feeling to the atmosphere, and anyone trying to cut a serious promo with him will have to actually work around that.

 

I mean, they could do like Rhyno and send him to improv schools and the like to improve his mic work, but at his very best he's going to sound like The Rock on sedatives.

I somewhat agree he may never get too much better, which leads us to him needing a manager to get him over. Just who, however, is the true question. Someone whom he could have great chemistry with, and someone will not overshadow him as a performer (meaning, someone like Flair is out).

[Guest razazteca]

As for the ringwork, the flippy-flippy stuff and Rolling Thunder and whatnot are visually impressive, but I'm starting to notice the spots are becoming repetative

well considering that RVD style is more suited for Cruiserweights, its hard to go past the usual 5 spots of doom. Do you really expect RVD to do a Release German Suplex on HBK or HHH? And the fact that he is not a brawler hurts his credibility as a Main Eventer since that is the only style god-uh looks good in. There is no way HHH or HBK are going to do the leg sweep, round house kick, drop kick, leg drop, kip up spot with RVD.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

I'm sorry, I forgot that Chris Jericho was born and breed WWE and was grown from the roots up by them.

 

Jericho is also in worse shape than RVD simply because HHH hates him.

[Guest FeArHaVoC]

NOBODY on Raw deserves to be a World Champion at this point in time.

 

Either,

 

1) Their just not Over. They lose Viewers.

See; Test, Storm, Regal, Richards, Dreamer, Kane

 

2) Their Over, but not Over Enough to be pushed as 'Major' Stars and have the focus of the Show surround them.

See: Triple H, Shawn Michaels

 

3) Buried to the point that people gave up on seeing them do anything above Gimmick matches & Comedy Rolls. i.e. Nowhere near the Main Event.

See; RVD, Jericho, Booker T

 

And of course, all this is because of ONE person over the last few months.

 

Raw is a Secord Rate show that shouldn't have any Main Event Titles.

 

My Head Hurts

[Guest eirejmcmahon]

I don't understand where all this character and talent Smarks see in RVD is coming from

Agreed, I think he's a fucking joke myself but he clearly has some sort of connection with the crowd.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

well considering that RVD style is more suited for Cruiserweights, its hard to go past the usual 5 spots of doom.

So why is it he's "ready" for the Championship then? I mean, I know he's over as hell, but the matches are going to get old fast. I'm not expecting Dean Malenko (although if he mixed a bit of Malenko inspiration in with his current fare it couldn't hurt him) but what's there now goes:

 

Corner spot, the OTHER corner spot (where he bounces off the top rope with his legs out to the side), let the other guy take over, enziguri or other transition, rolling thunder (which never ever gets the pin), spinkick, frogsplash, pin.

 

And it's almost like this for EVERY match.

 

And the fact that he is not a brawler hurts his credibility as a Main Eventer since that is the only style god-uh looks good in.

 

Since I only like HHH bashing when HHH bashing is due, he was working in matches with Nation and like when SCSA set in motion the main event style we know today, thank you.

[Guest JHawk]

I was actually sent an e-mail this morning that claimed Triple H is more over than RVD or Booker T. Ludicrous, I say.

 

But let's look at some facts.

 

I'll agree that RVD's mic skills aren't good, and Booker's aren't exceptional either. But facts are, those are pretty much the only two guys on that show who get any sort of reaction for what goes on in the ring.

 

A WWE World Champion doesn't need the full package. Hogan and Warrior weren't great wrestlers. Hell, Warrior couldn't talk either. Big Show can't wrestle and only gets by in promos because of Heyman. Rocky's a great promo guy but his offense isn't credible. Jericho was booked to look weak. Austin was never given a title run until after he first hurt his neck, and at that point, he was more of a brawler.

 

So basically, we've just proven that WWE has been willing to give guys a shot who are missing one or more key factor, usually because they're over, but occasionally just to shake things up.

 

So when you have a guy who's as over as RVD, how does not cutting a promo automatically keep him from a true main event push when the fans want the main event push?

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

A WWE World Champion doesn't need the full package. Hogan and Warrior weren't great wrestlers. Hell, Warrior couldn't talk either. Big Show can't wrestle and only gets by in promos because of Heyman. Rocky's a great promo guy but his offense isn't credible. Jericho was booked to look weak.

1) The business changed somewhere in the span of 95-97, and giving a promo became a much more important issue than it used to be. The Hogan era was more Saturday Morning Cartoon than the current product aimed at adults, so for the most part the acting could pass at the atrocious level and complete bullshit like Papa Shango could go out there and get a push.

 

2) Big Show is an anomoly. He was simply used in place of Hogan then simply booked to win due to Brock's injuries. And I don't think there's anyone here that could defend his having a job in the WWE. Period end.

 

3) His offense isn't credible? I'll give you the awful Sharpshooter, but I don't buy the rest of that. Rocky's problem in my eyes has always been his overexaggerated selling routine.

 

4) Jericho was booked to look weak? He was in full Pompous Ass mode, talking down to guys so brashly it made even me notice ("Cmon down here, Austin! You coward, get out here and face the Champ!") Hell, he even beat Stone Cold up with HIS OWN BEER COOLER and got out of that feud with his dignity intact. It was when HHH returned that everything came crashing down.

[Guest Downhome]

A WWE World Champion doesn't need the full package. Hogan and Warrior weren't great wrestlers. Hell, Warrior couldn't talk either. Big Show can't wrestle and only gets by in promos because of Heyman. Rocky's a great promo guy but his offense isn't credible. Jericho was booked to look weak. Austin was never given a title run until after he first hurt his neck, and at that point, he was more of a brawler.

Charisma, promos, and all of that comes before in ring work, period. RVD simply is on the other end of the spectrum, and that hurts him.

[Guest eirejmcmahon]

So when you have a guy who's as over as RVD, how does not cutting a promo automatically keep him from a true main event push when the fans want the main event push?

Rikishi gets big pops too, should he get a main event spot ?

 

There's potential to RVD but until he sorts out his overly sloppy ring work (Jesus - like he wasn't fucked enough without injurying the head booker's piece of ass) and really dull character, he's going nowhere.

[Guest Downhome]

So this all brings me to this question...

 

...why in the hell did ANYONE think he had a chance at the PPV, RAW last week, and RAW last night?

[Guest Brian]

Brock actually has good mic skills. He is probably number 3 on Smackdown behind Angle & Heyman.

Eddy Guerrero? Chavo? Knoble?

[Guest JHawk]

I can't believe I even have to explain myself on some of this.

 

Rock's offense: Wild punches (the spit punch is annoying), the shitty sharpshooter, and the People's Elbow (flashy, but even RVD's most contrived flippy floppy move takes less time to execute than this). Not to mention the belly-to-belly that he never hits unless the opponent starts flying before Rocky ever touches him.

 

Jericho was booked to look weak because he never got a clean win over anybody during his title reign. Even cowardly heel Flair was allowed to win without interference or excessive cheating every once in a while, and winning by cheating was Flair's gimmick as heel champion.

 

Charisma, promos, and all of that comes before in ring work, period. RVD simply is on the other end of the spectrum, and that hurts him.

 

You have still failed to explain The Undertaker's two month title reign with that one.

 

Rikishi gets big pops too, should he get a main event spot ?

 

There's a difference between getting pops for being liked and getting pops for slapping your own ass. How the Stink Face ever got over I don't know, but Rikishi's pops are for that lameass move and his postmatch dance routine. They're never sustained. RVD not only gets pops for the thumb pointing thing, but when he gets more than three minutes to work he gets several "RVD" chants as well as pops for the spots.

[Guest JHawk]

So this all brings me to this question...

 

...why in the hell did ANYONE think he had a chance at the PPV, RAW last week, and RAW last night?

Read my recap of the show. I don't ever remember saying RVD would win. Maybe that he should, but I never gave him a shot in hell.

 

That's the problem even more than RVD not main eventing right now. Fans want him to, but they're so convinced he never will at this point that they're losing interest in anybody other than Triple H getting the spot.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

So this all brings me to this question...

 

...why in the hell did ANYONE think he had a chance at the PPV, RAW last week, and RAW last night?

Because people think Vince will wake up and give RVD the belt. Considering HGH and Shawn Micheals have bombed has champs, it wouldn't hurt the WWE to give RVD a run has champ.

[Guest razazteca]

Since I only like HHH bashing when HHH bashing is due, he was working in matches with Nation and like when SCSA set in motion the main event style we know today, thank you

what has HHH done for me lately? Punch, Kick, finisher and maybe knee attacks. I could add a In the Year 2000 Conan O'Brian joke here but I will not.

 

HHH looks bad on Raw because his style does not mesh well with the RAW4: RVD, Jericho, Booker T, Kane.

[Guest eirejmcmahon]

There's a difference between getting pops for being liked and getting pops for slapping your own ass.  How the Stink Face ever got over I don't know, but Rikishi's pops are for that lameass move and his postmatch dance routine.  They're never sustained.  RVD not only gets pops for the thumb pointing thing, but when he gets more than three minutes to work he gets several "RVD" chants as well as pops for the spots.

First off, I acknowledge that RVD does have a connection with the crowd - though I've seen said connection fall right apart in any match that stretches for more than ten minutes.

 

I've no experience with ECW so I'm talking purely about his stint in the WWE here.

 

Honestly ? I think he's really helped by having a name that's easy to chant. Fans at live events love to participate and the RVD "points to self" thing is always going to appeal.

 

He needs a lot of work before he becomes a legitimate draw but, despite my own personal problems with the guy, I reckon the WWE could do worse than getting behind him for six months - if only to see how he reacts as a performer.