Guest Tim Cooke Report post Posted November 3, 2002 My Top 20 Favorite All Japan Matches of the 1990’s 1. Misawa/Akiyama v Kawada/Taue (12/6/96 – RWTL Final) The Final 15 minutes of this match are the best 15 minutes of wrestling that I have ever seen. The storylines surrounding this match are so intricate. One year of Misawa always saving Akiyama comes to an end when Akiyama can’t save Misawa the one time he needs it. Kawada and Taue finally take out Akiyama to get Misawa alone which they couldn’t do on 5/23, 7/9, or 11/30. A 4 year RWTL quest comes to completion when Kawada and Taue finally win the big one on that cold December night. Plus, the added bonus of storylines arching back to the 1988 RWTL Final when Kawada was Akiyama and Misawa was Tenyru. 2. Misawa v Kawada (6/3/94) The finest Men’s Pro Style singles match that I have ever seen. Misawa and Kawada play off of their previous 4 matches by countering move after move as well as taking into account injuries (Misawa’s Carnival neck injury from 1994 and Kawada’s leg from 1993 RWTL) to build the match. 3. Kobashi v Hansen (7/29/93) A terrific under dog vs. elder match up with Hansen doing all the little things perfectly to make this match awesome. Kobashi plays his role perfectly, making his comebacks at the right times and having the crowd support to back him up. 4. Kawada v Williams (4/16/94) Kawada takes Williams to the best singles match of his career in the 1994 Carnival final. The build is slower than a lot of AJPW matches but is done to perfection. The final four minutes are terrific in showing that Kawada is in full control, something he can’t accomplish two months later against Misawa. 5. Misawa/Akiyama v Williams/Ace (6/7/96) A spectacular tag match that combines some great wrestling with a great story. Misawa and Akiyama may be the finest team ever. Williams looks good in his last real classic and Ace does a good job as well. Loads of fun. 6. Can Am Express v Kobashi/Kikuchi (5/25/92) The most heated match that I have ever seen. 12 minutes of US style Face in Peril worl that the Can Am and Kikuchi had mastered. Kobashi plays the big brother role exceptionally and really shows why in the early 90’s he was one of the best. 7. Hansen v Kawada (2/28/93) Two great wrestlers kicking the shit out of each other and selling it well for 25+ minutes. What was once a hard match for me to really get into has become an all time favorite. Hansen’s 1993 year is something to behold. 8. Misawa v Taue (9/10/95) Taue’s height as a singles wrestler comes against Misawa in the Champions Carnival re- match. A ton of great and fun work in this match. Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, Steve Austin, HHH, Randy Savage, Ricky Steamboat have never had a match this great in their lives. 9. Fantastics v Malenko/Kikuchi (9/1/90) The Fantastics MOTYC in Japan and quite a match to boot. Tommy Rogers is a personal favorite of mine and shows in this match why he will be one of the all time most under rated wrestlers ever. 10. Misawa/Akiyama v Kawada/Taue (11/30/96) The league match from the 1996 RWTL. The best spot fest AJPW has ever produced and a key match in setting up the final. Taue gets his leg worked over which leads to the 12/6 match; all four men look strong in the match showing anyone can take anyone at any given time; and all four men bust out all kinds of fun double teams and high spots. Superb match. Matches 11-20 are just some more matches that I really like for one reason or another. I may elaborate later. 10/25/95 Kawada v Albright 4/16/93 Kawada v Hansen 7/24/95 Misawa v Kawada 4/6/95 Misawa v Kawada 6/9/95 Misawa/Kobashi v Kawada/Taue 4/96 Taye v Williams 12/3/93 Misawa/Kobashi v Kawada/Taue 7/2/93 Misawa/Kobashi/Akiyama v Kawada/Taue/Ogawa 10/15/95 Misawa/Kobashi v Kawada/Taue 4/20/91 Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi v Tsuruta/Taue/Fuchi These are the top matches that I haven’t seen yet that could possibly make this list after I view them: 3/4/95 Misawa/Kobashi v Williams/Ace 11/30/93 Misawa/Kobashi v Hansen/Baba 5/23/93 Misawa v Hansen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted November 3, 2002 Did you submit a ballot at DVDVR during their polls? I only, at the time, had seen enough WWF and WCW to actually put up individual ballots. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted November 3, 2002 Who was in the Can-Am Express? I think it's pretty obvious that it wasn't the same guys from the WWEEEEE, but I'm just curious to know who. On top of that, which Malenko are you talking about for Number Nine? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DragonflyKid Report post Posted November 3, 2002 Doug Furnas and Dan Krofatt(Phil Lafon) who were a fantastic team. By the time they got to the WWF their bodies were broken down and they weren't allowed to wrestle as stiffly and high impact as they did in Japan thus their uneventful stint there. He's talking about Joe Malenko, who's not actually a relative of Dean. It's a work like the Andersons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jubuki Report post Posted November 3, 2002 Hmm, I wonder if there are any other posts on this board where All Japan matches are listed....d'ya think they'd say who the Can-Ams are on those posts...I got an idea! All I have to do is check the dates, don't I?!? I M SO SMRT! Shoulda posted this over at WC to bump that thread, Tim... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted November 3, 2002 I'll just do my favorite, because no matter how much better other matches are than this, nothing else means more to me. Misawa/Kobashi vs. Kawada/Taue, RWTL 1993, 12/3/93 I didn’t realize this match was on a commercial tape until May 2001, after looking through some match listings on a tape site. I had seen a good amount of AJPW by then, but this was a match that was the biggest omission, especially after reading the rave reviews it had received from several people. Needless to say I sent for it immediately, and to this day I am in complete awe of the performance of a lifetime by Toshiaki Kawada. The story he told in that ring by the way he sold his leg was unforgettable, with everyone else playing their role perfectly to make it all come together. It was indeed as surreal as it gets, with the emotional triumph by Kenta Kobashi getting his first world championship being a fitting end to the best year I’ve ever seen a wrestler have. In the end, this is my all-time favorite pro wrestling match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted November 4, 2002 Hmm, I wonder if there are any other posts on this board where All Japan matches are listed....d'ya think they'd say who the Can-Ams are on those posts...I got an idea! All I have to do is check the dates, don't I?!? I M SO SMRT! Shoulda posted this over at WC to bump that thread, Tim... Just a simple question. No harm done after all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jubuki Report post Posted November 4, 2002 Laziness is bad enough all on its own. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted November 4, 2002 Perhaps, but the idea of looking elsewhere didn't really enter my thought process, as I felt it was simpler to ask within the confines of this thread. It's not a matter of laziness, just one of ignorance on this particular topic. I was seeking an answer, and now I found it. End of story. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest J*ingus Report post Posted November 5, 2002 8. Misawa v Taue (9/10/95) Taue’s height as a singles wrestler comes against Misawa in the Champions Carnival re- match. A ton of great and fun work in this match. Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, Steve Austin, HHH, Randy Savage, Ricky Steamboat have never had a match this great in their lives. Pretty strong words. Was this the match where Taue won the TC title? As for me, the best one I've seen up to this point would probably be Misawa/Kobashi vs. Kawada/Taue 6/9/95. It just told a story better than any other match I've ever seen, and did it damn near perfectly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tim Cooke Report post Posted November 5, 2002 No, the match was just for Misawa's Triple Crown. The title switch occured in May of 1996. The match is more psychologically sound than anything any of the guys listed in the paragraph did. Good Taue is far greater in terms of laying out a match, playing his role, knowing when to use moves, and having great psych abilities than Michaels did on his best day. From April of 1995 until sometime in mid 1997, Taue was a top 10 worker in the world, at least for me. I won't even bring Kazuo Yamazaki into this discussion about how he was 10x the worker Mr. Michaels was Tim Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted November 5, 2002 "Pretty strong words." To be quite honest, I don't see how they are that strong at all, because aside from Steamboat, where I can see an argument for the 4/2/89 match with Flair being better, the vast majority of everything else doesn't come close. Taue developed into a fantastic worker in 1995, with this match being the most impressive performance in a singles match that I've seen from him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Luke Argyle Report post Posted November 5, 2002 I watched 9/10/95 late on Saturday night with a belly full of Heinekin and Tim's thoughts in mind. I'd never understood the Taue hate that most people bring, as 12/6/96 was one of my first exposures to him and he absolutely rules the world in that match. Not only that, but busted his ass in the NOAH debut tag main, redeming that match in my eyes somewhat. Back to 9/10/95, outside of the early tiger driver and nodowa otoshi, which caught me off completely, the match has to be one of my all time favorites for 90's All Japan. I dig it way better than Kawada vs. Williams from '94, but hey, I dig Taue vs. Williams from '96 more than that match, so to each is own. As far as Taue being better than all those other cats, I dunno. I'd probably still take Hart on Hart from WMX over Taue vs. Misawa, but again, that's me. Peace. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tim Cooke Report post Posted November 5, 2002 When everything in a match is looked at, the Hart/Hart match just doesn't do it for me. It's a cliche Bret match with Owen adding some fun spots but Bret just being Bret. In the Misawa/Taue match, everything seems to fall together. Taue gets his first shot at the Triple Crown, being elevated by winning the Carnival and just getting damn good over the year. If I had to take 5 AJPW matches and never watch another one, this would be one of them. Along with 12/6/96, 11/30/96, 6/7/96, and one more, which would be a tough decision. Taue when he was good is as fun of Pro Style wrestling that I have ever. Tim Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted November 5, 2002 Taue's first Triple Crown shot was actually on 2/28/93 against Misawa. What's mindblowing is watching that match with 9/10/95 back-to-back - it's like a fucking night and day difference. In the first one, Misawa had to pull a miracle out of his ass to save the match from bombing, whereas in the second Taue is rocking the world. Funny how things turn out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Luke Argyle Report post Posted November 5, 2002 And does Taue take that final elbow like a fukcing man, or what? You know, it's been a damned long time since I've even seen Bret squared from X. Maybe it's time to watch it again and see if it still clicks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest J*ingus Report post Posted November 6, 2002 I do like Taue, I like the way he paces his matches a lot, I'm certainly not one of those who refers to him as "a Japanese Sid Vicious". But I do have one problem with him: a lot of his offense looks like shit, plain and simple. His kicks are often awkward, his chops to the head aren't much better than Baba's were, and his chokeslam... Jesus, but Taue might have the worst, clumsiest, weakest-looking chokeslam I've ever seen for a wrestler who uses the move as his finish. It hurts his matches, in my opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DragonflyKid Report post Posted November 6, 2002 I love Taue's chokeslam, instead of getting lift he slams the guy back. It's not as visually stunning as getting a guy high in the air and slamming him down but I like it anyway. His chops to the head look weak, especially compared to Misawa's elbows, Kawada's kicks and Kobashi's chop. His big boot isn't the best, his enzuguri looks as good as can be expected from him; but he does pick guys up and drop them over the top rope which always elicits boos from the audience which makes me smile. His powerbombs are pretty decent. Taue sold the finishing elbow in the 9/10/95 match great, he flew backwards but did it so well that it didn't seem like he was overselling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest XdojimeX Report post Posted November 6, 2002 "His big boot isn't the best" Aww, dont hate the boot. The running Dynamic kick is all sorts of gnarly. The one he smoked Akiyama with in the '97 RWTL was a thing of beauty. I love Taue's gangly offense personally. Well the '95-'97 version anyway. The inertia of his akwardness makes his execution look all the more devestating...or something. I could always do without the snake eyes though. It worked as a dick play to the crowd but I always thought it looked pretty loose for AJ. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted November 6, 2002 I'll take 'shitty offense' when it's combined with smart work over Kobashi goofiness any day of the week. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest J*ingus Report post Posted November 6, 2002 True dat, but when a guy's moves simply don't look like they hurt, it's hard to keep that suspension of disbelief. At least Kobashi doesn't have that problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tim Cooke Report post Posted November 6, 2002 I don't know where everyone has a problem with Taue's offense looking bad. At a lot of points from 1990-2/95, it certainly looked akward and horrible. But during his good period, he always connected with his moves. I have seen one person do that chokeslam better and that was Vader v Inoki from 1/4/96. Other than that, Taue's Nodowa is simply awesome. I would just like to know some specific examples of where Taue's offense looks terrible from 4/95-12/96. 9/10/95 v Misawa he doesn't do anything that looks crappy. 4/96 v Doc he does everything well. The Misawa/Akiyama series from 1996 he is fine. RWTL 96 he is fine. Maybe I just don't notice it though because Taue's good work is so deep. But I also don't mind the mess up's in 11/26/92 either. Tim Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest J*ingus Report post Posted November 6, 2002 It's no one specific period, it's pretty much every match I've ever seen him in. His kicks are hit-or-miss, literally, sometimes they're brutal, sometimes he looks like Hogan giving the big boot out there. His chops are almost always weak-looking. And his chokeslam, damn, I don't understand how anyone likes that. He never gets any elevation on it, and often looks like he's about to pull a Nash and either fall down or drop the guy halfway through it. It looks almost exactly like how the Big Bossman used to do his. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tim Cooke Report post Posted November 6, 2002 For the chops, its almost an ode to Baba. Baba's chops, especially to the head, were done like that. The Chokeslam doesn't necessarily need height. I think that is more of an "Americanized" perception that chokeslams have to be high in the air. Tim Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest J*ingus Report post Posted November 6, 2002 For the chops, its almost an ode to Baba. Baba's chops, especially to the head, were done like that. They still look like crap and are hard to buy as legitimate offensive moves, though. The Chokeslam doesn't necessarily need height. I think that is more of an "Americanized" perception that chokeslams have to be high in the air. How so? The more height, the more momentum on the way down and the more impact on landing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tim Cooke Report post Posted November 6, 2002 "They still look like crap and are hard to buy as legitimate offensive moves, though." Wrestling is fake, but I can see where you can make your argument from. "How so? The more height, the more momentum on the way down and the more impact on landing." If we are looking for realism here, picking a person up high isn't realistic. That's where AJPW selling comes in so deeply. Tim Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted November 6, 2002 Some people bitch about Taue's chops, but don't say a thing about Bret Hart's "punches." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest J*ingus Report post Posted November 6, 2002 If we are looking for realism here, picking a person up high isn't realistic. But using a chokeslam in the first place isn't realistic either, it's one of those moves that's basically impossible to do unless the other guy is cooperating. And it doesn't hurt much the way Taue does it, it's just a standard back bump. Some people bitch about Taue's chops, but don't say a thing about Bret Hart's "punches." Eh? I always thought Bret's punches looked alright. The part I never agreed was with how much he relied on them in a match. It seemed weird to me that such a "technical master" as he was billed would punch, kick, and stomp his oppenent over and over again. Ah well, I liked Owen better of the two anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jubuki Report post Posted November 6, 2002 Is this more of your 'insider' experience informing us how wrong we are? Taue performed his nodowa the way it was intended; the fans believed in it as a credible finish. If it's executed correctly and it serves its purpose within the match's framework without hamstringing some other part of the story, no one should give a shit how it looks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest J*ingus Report post Posted November 6, 2002 Is this more of your 'insider' experience informing us how wrong we are? Yes. Have you ever taken a chokeslam in a wrestling ring? I have. And the higher one goes up for it, the more impact it has in the end. Taue performed his nodowa the way it was intended; the fans believed in it as a credible finish. If it's executed correctly and it serves its purpose within the match's framework without hamstringing some other part of the story, no one should give a shit how it looks. But wrestling is supposed to be a credible simulation of violence, and I'm sorry, but Taue's nodowa just doesn't look like it could even mildly stun somebody, much less knock them out. (The exception being when he does it off the apron, that looks fucking brutal.) There are any number of moves that he does which would be a more believable finish; forgot its name, but the one where he picks up the guy belly-to-back and then throws them forward would be one example. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites