Lei Tong

Quarry is a pretty legit MW (size-wise) from what I've seen, and that chubby bastard Sanford may have been able to go even lower in weight were he not already past his physical prime.

Actually, it's quite ironic that the two MW finalists are bulked up welterweights who will probably drop down in weight upon the show's conclusion.

Swick needs all kinds of love for last night's performance. Seriously, not many guys can bounce back from a KO loss like he suffered against Leben and then do as well as he did vs. Bonnar last night. I'm also glad that everyone seemed to mention how good Mike would do back at 185lbs, as it would seem to be an indicator that the UFC would still be interested in him as a MW. Hoger, on the other hand, just couldn't pull the trigger. Forest is usually a slow starter, and inside it looked like Sam might have an advantage in power, yet he never bothered to bring the fight to Forest, though he still landed the front kick effectively at times.

Since you are not men of honour, looks like it's up to me to get the ball rolling again... Predictions for the LHW semifinals tonight: Stephan Bonnar def. Mike Swick via TKO, Rd.2 -Though a better striker technically, I can't get the image of Swick crumpling vs. Leben out of mind. I think they'll trade standing, but Bonnar's chin & size advantage will make the difference in this one. Then, of the other two possible LHW matches... Sam Hoger def. Bobby Southworth via Maj.Dec. -Bobby's size & strength advantage will be nullified by Sam's own, while Bobby's hatred for Sam will only get him taken down if he goes in with guns blazing. From there, Sam'll grind away for the JD win. OR Forest Griffin def. Sam Hoger via Unanimous Decision - Sam may be able to put Forest on his back, but Forest knows when to turn it up, and I think Sam will have to defend submission attempts and striking barrages more frequently as the fight goes on. Then again, I'd find it hilarious to see Sam adhere to the Miletich motto of "Just win, baby!" and use every trick in the book to try and open Forest's cut.

Even in the past few years guys like Tua, Mesi, SSS, Whitaker, Rahman, Johnson, Skelton, Brewster etc. have had some measure of success (all ranked at some point in the top 20), and that's not even counting guys who though less often than these guys, could often trudge their way around the ring like Williams or Klitschko.

- Points system: Mount position = 2 points Back mount with hooks = 3 points Passing the guard = 3 points Knee on stomach = 2 points Clean Sweeps = 4 points Sweeps = 4 Points Clean Take down (Ends passed the guard)= 4 points Take down (Ends Guard or Half Guard)= 2 points Asy you can see, it's very possible for guys with little finishing skills to win simply by scoring a couple of points and then riding to a decision. - Fabiano's definitely a legit guy, and since most schools let you sit in on a few classes, you should probably check it out if you want to get into BJJ. - Though he mostly a takedown & control guy, Kerr could finish guys off every now and then with a Kimura and also new how to advance positiong somewhat. I don't think Wiuff has Kerr's wrestling or overall submission skill, though. - Arona's been undefeated in ADCC since 2000, winning something like over a dozen matches, but only ever finishing one match, submitting Roger Neff with a footlock. Definitely one of the more boring guys to watch in ADCC.

- Reyes is a joke, and I think Reyes' noteriety alone may have gotten him into this tournament. He should be subbed quickly in the opening round. - Alistair winning seems to be more condemning of the this year's European <98kg qualifiers than anything else, especially since he used the same move (guillotine) to submit each of his opponents. - Wiuff, on the other hand, obviously has some wrestling skill (though nothing on par with what it was hyped up to be) and should still be strong at a lower weight, though I'd have to say he'll probably be taken out by the first threat he meets. - Fabiano's good, as evidenced by winning the Brazilian qualifiers (always tough at pretty much every weight), but this year's seemed a bit lower on talent than in the past. I'd say he has a shot at placing 3rd or 4th. - I may be a bit biased, but I think of Bravo as a lesser version of Baret Yoshida in that he's going to try his best to sub you, but if he can't, chances are he'll lose on points. Royler was winning before Bravo caught him off guard, and Viera absolutely shredded the rubber guard. I don't expect Eddie to place this year.

No doubt there have always been entertaining heavyweights, but compared to most other divisions, the Heavyweights usually have a higher proportion of boring fighters, usually due to the simple fact that you're not going to see many big, plodding guys be successful at any other weight like you will at HW.

Good luck getting more than a handful of divisions unified. The promoters love having a plethora of "World Champions" to advertise, most fighters are more than happy having a single alphabet belt, and each of the organizing bodies are willing & ready to sell rankings to whomever is willing to buy them.

Even amongst themselves (and trying to show I'm not being unfairly biased), Gatti/Ruelas, Gatti/Rodriguez & Ward/ Burton were all easily on par with Gatti/Ward I. EDIT- Also, though they showed a lot of skill in the fight, I think Barrera/Morales I could still classified an awesome brawl as well as overall fight.

Honestly, I never found the Gatti/Ward series as great as many people did. The fights were pretty sloppy, and both guys were pretty much 2nd tier guys, which makes you realize there have been even greater brawls between other secondary fighters. Entertaining fights? Definitely. Great fights? No.

I think the UFC realizes many of these guys are out of their weightclass, and may even encourage some to move down in weight (as they have in the past). Besides, wouldn't the UFC want the shows winners to look as good as possible after awarding them huge contracts?

Nathan Quarry Team: Team Quest Event Most Frequented: Various Chances in the UFC: An adaptable & tough fighter, he's fought some decent competition. However, he's still relatively inexperienced and inactive. Mike Swick Team: American Kickboxing Academy Event Most Frequented: World Extreme Cagefighting Chances in the UFC: Another guy out of his weight class. Was highly touted as a great striker with a good ground game to boot, he lost a little luster when Leben chin checked him. Assuming the fight was an abberation, he could probably do pretty well in the UFC MW division. Chris Sanford Team: Cesar Gracie Jiu jitsu Event Most Frequented: N/A Chances in the UFC: Doughy even at 185lbs., he's inexperienced even at his age. Though he has some well rounded skills and is from a decent team, he still has too many negatives agaisnt him to make it in the UFC. Alex Schoenaur Team: N/A Event Most Frequented: N/A Chances in the UFC: Another inexperienced and/or inactive guy, I don't really know much about Schoenauer. You wouldn't think his ground game is as weak as it was vs. Forest judging by his record, but as always, the numbers can be decieving. Though his aggresion served him well in that fight, Forest was still able to eventually control the flow of the fight. If he could get himself on a decent team, he could eventually be UFC material.

Some quick reads up at UFC by Mr. Blue worth a read: You know who I hate? Takanori Gomi I have fluke, to show? You thought I hated Takanori Gomi? Hah!

Diego Sanchez Team: Jackson's Submission Fighting Event Most Frequented: King of the Cage Chances in the UFC: More of a WW, he would have trouble in the UFC's stacked 169lbs division. Forest Griffin Team: Straight Blast Gym Event Most Frequented: various Chances in the UFC: A solid, well-rounded fighter with big fight experience/wins, he could probably do well outside of the UFC's "Big Three" at LHW. Kenny Florian Team: Gracie Barra Combat Team Event Most Frequented: N/A Chances in the UFC: Another smallish MW, his BJJ needs to be truly tested before I could say how he'd do at WW. Sam Hoger Team: Miletich Martial Arts Event Most Frequented: N/A Chances in the UFC: A former HW, he's got the size. He's also highly touted by the Miletich Team as a well rounded guy, but still too unproven. Josh Koscheck Team: American Kickboxing Academy Event Most Frequented: N/A Chances in the UFC: A natural athlete and awesome wrestler, he's got a great team behind him & already shows some rare things from a pure wrestler (ie- kicking ability & submission awareness). Lacks killer instinct & experience to be competitive just yet. Stephan Bonnar Team: Carlson Gracie Team Event Most Frequented: Ironheart Crown Chances in the UFC: Has run through some decent also-rans, but his recklessness and willingness to trade have worked against him before. Chris Leben Team: Team Quest Event Most Frequented: Various Chances in the UFC: Semi-"exposed" in his last few fights, he's still a dangerous fight for anyone, yet not a contender just yet. Bobby Southworth Team: American Kickboxing Academy Event Most Frequented: International Fighting Championship Chances in the UFC: Big and semi-well rounded, but viewed as a bit mentally weak in & out of the cage. Will do the rest tomorrow.

Quck thoughts: -Ring's rankings have become a complete and utter fucking joke, selling out their own ranking systems as an excuse to overrate fighters of the right pigment (Gatti & Klitschko come to mind) and/or one-hit wonders (Antonio Tarver). -The Barrera/Morales Trilogy > The Gatti/Ward Trilogy -Boxing isn't really that bad off at 154lbs and below, but most American fans don't like watching skilled little guys fight when they can "watch a couple of proper heavyweights gas out and such."

Well, be forewarned that at least the first 5 minutes of next week's show is going to be devoted to a Leben emotional breakdown.

A little of both. Semmy's grip has given people various degrees of trouble (usually moreso than other fighters) from the bottom, but Pete was probably one of the most effective examples. I also think part of the problem is the Lion's Den guys never practioned positioning much on the ground, and thus are usually prety weak guard passers, and thusly weak from the mount as well.

He's probably talking about Semmy Schilt, who though Dutch, could understandably be mistaken for German. Dutch? My bad, the name sounded more German than Dutch. The guy is like 6'7" or 8 and is all arms and legs. I kept thinking he belonged on a nature special about praying mantises fighting each other or something. If it was Schilt, the guy has been reported from roughly 6'10-7'0 tall.

He's probably talking about Semmy Schilt, who though Dutch, could understandably be mistaken for German.

Avoid most of his pre-UFC matches and it should stay that way.

The thing is, you know Hume never thought that anyone would believe that match was legitimate. He probably thought his MMA career would be remembered more for his wins over Miletich & Paulson, rather than losing a few worked matches in Pancrase. But why would Ken work a match against someone who he could and would beat in real shoot fight? That's what makes me think that some matches were just Ken and others takin' it easy on their opponents. I think most of the Pancrase matches between the top fighters were legit. Of course, everyone knows that Shamrock/Suzuki KOP match was a work. Suzuki was a great fighter in reality though. BTW, Lei, that was me who originally made the statement on Pancrase matches and their legitimacy. - I don't think it was a total given that Shamrock would defeat Hume. As I mentioned, Hume had wins over quality guys like Paulson (former Shooto champion) & Miletich (former UFC champion). I would put ken as a favorite in a match simple because he dwarfed Hume. But how can you look at that clip and think it was legitimate? The fact is, there's been plenty of other matches with a larger diference in both size and skill than Shamrock/Hume, yet never will you ever see something like a Northern Lights Suplex to floatover kimura, and it's not as though Hume doesn't know his shit, being head trainer of AMC Pankration. In regards to Suzuki, no doubt that he was one of Pancrase's more skilled guys on the ground, but the fact is he benefited possibly more than anyone from Pancrase's works. People talk about injuries playing a big part of why Suzuki's W/L record suffered as Pancrase shifted to pure shoots, but watching fights against the likes of Yamamiya, Mezger & Kikuta showed that there was more to it than Suzuki not being as good as he once was. - There's really been a lot of entertaining bouts in smaller orgs. Some examples: SHOOTO: Caol Uno vs. Rumina Sato I Hayato Sakurai vs. Frank Trigg Akihiro Gono vs. Murilo Rua Hiroyuki Takaya vs. Joao Roque Takanori Gomi vs. Joachim Hansen Pancrase: Bas Rutten vs. Masakatsu Funaki II Ricardo Almeida vs. Kazuo Misaki Yuki Kondo vs. Akihiro Gono Mitsuyoshi Sato vs. Daisuke Watanabe Ikuhisa Minowa vs. Yoshinori Momose DEEP: Ikuhisa Minowa vs. Paulo Filho Takaharu Murahama vs. Ryuki Ueyama Hayato Sakurai vs. Dave Menne Ryo Chonan vs. Eiji Ishikawa Dokonjonosuke Mishima vs. Masakazu Imanari

Double post

The thing is, you know Hume never thought that anyone would believe that match was legitimate. He probably thought his MMA career would be remembered more for his wins over Miletich & Paulson, rather than losing a few worked matches in Pancrase.

The colonial 'do was all the rage amongst "shootfighters" back in the day. As for who rocked it the hardest: 1) Paul Lazenby 2) Guy Mezger 3) Masakatsu Funaki 4) Ken Sahmrock 5) Erik Paulson