Papacita

I always liked Luger's celebration after he beat Hogan for the belt on Nitro. There's a moment there where he accidentally hits the Giant with an uppercut that just had me dying when I was little. As an HBK mark, I gotta go with the Mania 12 win. Warrior's after beating Hogan is another one of my favorites, and I guess you could toss Warrior's return at WM 8 in there too. Bret Hart celebrating with Stu and Helen after beating Mr. Perfect for the I-C Belt was always pretty memorable for me, since that was the first PPV I ever ordered. The pretty much any one of Austin's post-match celebration from 98-99...particularly ones I got to see live. The beer-bash stuff was especially fun to watch when he first started doing it, and there was this one show I went to where he must have Stunned The Rock about 5 or 6 times while posing for the crowd.

Was there ever a reason given for having Adamle and Tazz walk out that one time?

^ Same thing with Eddie Guerrerro and Latino Heat basically. I think Eddie said he was just ripping a line from a movie, and Lawler really drove it home.

I just decided to check out HBK/Jericho on YouTube, and probably woke the whole block up when Shawn hit the Superkick from the apron. That was one of the best spots I've seen in years! Damn...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yvOOe28YhM Part I of the WM6 Countdown show. Mainly posting because of there's a bad ass Hogan promo in there.

Didn't Vince pump him to do a lot of that stuff though? I remember a while back they did some kinda racial bit on Raw and everybody got up in arms over Coach constantly playing it up, only to find out that Vince was feeding him his lines in order to drum up controversy. Might not have been this exact scenario but I remember something to this effect on at least one (and possibly more) occasion. Anyway, like a lot of folks here, I've liked Coach since the heel turn even if I never liked his commentary. I remember thinking a while back he was gonna manage the Spirit Squad and how cool that would've been. They definitely missed the boat on not using more as an on-screen character.

I was at this show. One of my favorite moments ever was walking into the arena for the first time, turning to my right and seeing Tommy Dreamer, Sandman and Heyman staring me dead in the face. I haven't seen the show since, but I really liked it live. Aside from the ME and the ECW invasion, Owen and Bulldog taking the tag belts was big for me at the time since it was the first title change I had ever seen live.

I marked.

I completely forgot about Steve Blackman jumping off the Summerslam set...oh well. I still don't like the inclusion of the Rock in the HHH/Angle build, but they absolutely had me with that build. It seem like the whole street lit up when Angle kissed Stephanie on the final Smackdown before the show. I wouldn't put Eddie/Angle on an all-time list since it was too short, but I think Angle's taped fist beat down on Eddie leading into the show was one of the more underrated angles of the last few years. Summerslam 98 (Taker/Austin-Nation/DX) was my all-time favorite build, and in fact I think the build to Survivor Series 98 was fantastic as well. The "No Touching" clause for HHH and Austin was pretty good, and I was dying to see them fight by the time No Way Out came around. The Elimination Chamber build for NYR 05 was one of the better builds in recent years.

I think one of the bigger problems with tag teams--and the initial post kinda gets at this--is that rather than presenting the Champions as the best tag teams that companies have to offer, the belts come off to the fans as token titles for weaker wrestlers to attain, and as long as the belts are presented in this light, you're going to have problems drawing. The night Austin and HBK beat Owen and Bulldog for the tag titles was one of my favorite moments ever because despite being arguably the two top faces in the company at the time, I really didn't expect them to be able to win. Now, it's conceivable to see HHH or John Cena beat both champions by themselves, and if they're paired up against Londrick or whomever the Champs are right now, it's almost a guaranteed victory. As good as Cena and HHH are individually, they shouldn't be able to just waltz into a match against the champs and go over on the first try...they're the World Tag Champs for a reason. I could accept seeingLondon and Kendrick job to them individually...even get squashed, but when it comes to tag stuff, they should have a noticeable advantage. Another thing that's bothered me for years about WWE is that it seems like every tag team they come up with will eventually get a run with the belt. One reason that the belts would seem so important back in the day because teams like the Rockers, as great as they were and for as long as they were together, weren't able to win them. One thing I really liked about the handling of the Hardys in 99-00 was that despite being the one of the most over teams on the roster, IIRC it was more than a year between their first and second title reigns, so when they finally beat E&C, it seemed like a big thing. ROH has been pretty good in this area as well over the past couple of years. It bothered me a bit to see teams like Bull and Goodfather, La Resistance, the Basham Brothers (their first reign at least), and others come right in and just pick up the belts seemingly for no reason other than the fact that they were paired up and it was expected of them. It doesn't seem like a challenge for anybody to come in and win them, and the titles' image suffers as a result.

Bossman. He was 'fired' the week or two before that show, and the next night on Raw he was 'hired' back. Probably one of the subtler Russo angles actually. Golddust, as it was originally named GDTV and the first few times it focused on people related to Golddust. He gets canned, it gets switched to GTV and the rest is extremely loopy history. On the other hand, I don't believe anyone was ever outed later on as being behind GTV, so I actually didn't answer your question. My bad. I think one of Headbangers actually ended up being behind GTV. The one that wasn't Chaz... I had always thought Bossman was behind the briefcase thing too, but I just read somewhere that HHH admitted to being behind it after the PPV went off the air, so I dunno.

Did you like how his "retirement" was handled? It was handled very well, and I never minded the Mania match as much as other people did. How'd you like his run as commissioner? 2000 wasn't my favorite period, but Mick was fun as Commish. He made me laugh regularly and that's always good. Did you like his short run with Randy Orton in 2004? No, and I've honestly never gotten the love for that Backlash match or the build-up for that matter. On the plus side, I loved the "barbie" promo leading into the match, and Rock-n-Sock v. Evolution was cool Did you enjoy his 2006 work? -I never got a chance to see the Flair matches, but yeah, Mick's 06 run was fun. The Mania and ONS matches were great (even if the booking between those two matches was kinda off), and I liked his attempts at cheap heel heat (The "Stephanie McMahon" comment at ONS had me rolling). Would you be interested in a more serious Foley if he wanted to come back ever full-time or close to it? It's real hard for me to take Foley seriously anymore, even his good work, after having seen the real person behind the Cactus Jack persona. That, and like Mole said, his coming back to put people over all the time, while admirable, takes a lot of shine off his legend. He had a good run, but I could do without seeing him on TV again.

I have a tape with ONS 06 and every ECW show from then until SummerSlam, and for all the criticisms you could throw at WWE for burying the company, a lot of that stuff was pretty good, especially when you're able to separate it from the politics and other bs going on at the time. I think most people can agree that ECW as it existed back in the day probably wouldn't work in a WWE environment given the schedule and the fact that hardcore wrestling's been played out for a long time (the real ECW even seemed to be phasing it out by 2000 or so), but they fucked up by being so blatant with the changes. The DQ thing wouldn't have been so bad if they didn't feel the need to do it every week, knowing full well that this was gonna piss off the original fans. The fact that they had to start calling the workers Vixens and Extremists was another annoying thing, especially after they had Styles get on TV and blast WWE for being ashamed to call wrestlers "wrestlers" (and really, they couldn't think of anything better than EXTREMISTS?!), and of course having Sabu speak was another big fuck up. What I never got about this whole thing is that despite how people feel about it being best used as a glorified developmental, at the end of the day this was an attempt to capitalize off nostalgia. It's one thing to make a change here and there, but to rub the fans' noses in it...then get pissed when the audience you're trying to cater to starts to complain. I know we used to clown on WWE logic, but damn... I wish they had played up the "old vs. new" concept a little more...especially in the beginning when everyone was still passionate about it. Oh, and the questions... 1. Would things had gone differently for the brand -- i.e. would the brand look different altogether today -- had RVD and Sabu not been pulled over for drugs, with Van Dam having to give up both Heavyweight Championships only a few days later? -Probably not. Vince had an idea of what he wanted when he started the brand back up, and what we eventually got would've turned out that way regardless. 2. Do you feel making an established WWE star in The Big Show the unstoppable heel ECW Champion helped or hindered the brand in its developing months? - Not Big Show itself, but having him defend against WWE stars every week hurt the brand overall. I know that Sci-Fi had a little to do with this, but it sent the clear message that they didn't have any faith in ECW or its stars, and I think even the densest person should've been able to see that. 3. Would adding a secondary singles title and tag titles make the brand more legitimate in your eyes? Would it help you place ECW on the same level as Raw or Smackdown? - Would've been interesting given the hour format...so long as they didn't go the "title match every week" route with it, I'd have liked to see this. 4. Do you think young wrestlers like John Morrison, CM Punk, and Elijah Burke would be more prevalent or less prevalent in the WWE if only Raw and Smackdown existed? Would they even still be in the federation at all? -Seeing as I haven't watched Raw or Smackdown regularly since 05, I really can't say about Morrison, since from afar he seemed to be doing pretty well for himself with Melina. Same with Burke, although I think he probably got more benefit than Morrisson. The main reason Punk got over like he did was because Heyman protected him so well in the beginning (debut in the heart of ROH-country...smart); he wouldn't have gotten that kind of consideration on Raw or Smackdown, and I doubt he'd even be called CM Punk if he started out there, so he's probably benefitted from this experiment more than anyone. 5. Has this reincarnation of ECW ultimately sullied the legacy of the ECW of the 1990s in your mind? - In my mind, no.

Doesn't really seem like all that fair a comparison in the potential department since Chavo's been around for so long, but I always thought Spanky had the potential to be big with the right push. He's got pretty good charisma and he seemed to be getting over pretty well during his initial WWE run. Like people have said, the biggest problem with him is his size. I'd choose him over Chavo on the basis of that alone.

I like this idea. Carlito is one of the guys who came around right when my interest in the product was starting to wane, so I'm probably useless in a discussion about him. I do remember a while back, a few people had him pegged to be the next Rock (which I never got from what I saw of him). Do people still feel he has that potential? Also, does anybody have a problem taking him seriously because of his look? He's toned it down a lot since I last saw him, but he still comes off a little clownish to me, and I'm wondering what's the general thought on that.

I really liked the way it was used at Mania. I can't see him using it as a regular finisher, but as a one-off ace-up-the-sleeve type move it'd be great. That said, something bugs me about how they're giving everybody submission finishers now. Some people just weren't meant to have them.

Anyone know if Savage really intended to retire here, or was it always in the cards for him to come back? I *think* Terry Funk had one of his 85 retirement matches against Bret Hart in 97 (I think it's even covered in Beyond the Mat but I can't remember). Also, Owen Hart "retired" in late 98 after breaking Dan Severn's neck, which led to the Blue Blazer storyline. Arn Anderson in 97, giving Hennig his spot.

I just DL'd Mania today and this seems like as good a place to mention it, but after watching the Title match am I the only one that just wants to see a flat out feud break out between HHH and Cena? No sudden turns or anything like that, just build to a straight up grudge match while Orton defends the title against somebody else. I haven't watched a single Raw or Smackdown in almost 2 years, but this would actually make me wanna watch. Just a thought...

WCW sucked and what little bit of ECW I followed that year was gold. WWF...granted, this was at the height of my mark period, but I still think this year gets too much of a bad rap. Granted, the bad stuff was pretty bad, but from SummerSlam on there's some fantastic stuff going on (Horowitz and Skip, Dean Douglas/Razor/Kid storyline, Shawn's concussion Angle, Bulldog's heel turn [hey, I liked it], Diesel's post Survivor Series "shoot" on Vince, etc), and from what I recall the pre-Mania stuff was pretty solid as well (the post Mania Raw with Sid turning on Shawn was fantastic). And match wise, as mentioned, Bret especially was just on fire. I'd still put 95 ahead of 02 on the bad year list.

Federation: WM 8, shortlyu followed by WM 6. 6 for nostalgia purposes since it was the first one I saw and I loved me some Warrior. I didn't get a chance to see 8 in full until 1999, but when I saw it...DAMN! Pretty much my favorite Mania ever if I had to pick just one. Attitude: This is really weird for me, as I crossed over into smarkhood somewhere between XV and 2000, and honestly Mania just didn't have the same significance for me during this period. X-7 is easily the best show on paper, but 1) I didn't see it live, 2) I saw the Austin turn coming a mile away, and 3) I didn't see HHH/Taker (the match I REALLY wanted to see) until 6 months later, and was underwhelmed at that. That leaves me to choose between XIV and XV, and believe it or not I actually liked the latter more. Even at the time I could see that it was pretty bad for a Mania, but the HHH turn alone pushes this over the top for me. So somehow, XV ends up being my favorite of the bunch... WWE: XX hands down...the show was too a little long for my tastes, but there was a lot of good stuff going on with the two MEs, the return of Old School Taker, and the conclusion of the Jericho/Trish/Christian saga (I saw Trish's turn coming too, but it came off really well).

Sites like these are lost on my anti-social ass, but of the two I prefer Facebook due to the fact that I hate those damn Myspace layouts with the music and stuff. That shit just pisses me off.

Probably a little over a year. I'd agree that that one's up there, since I was insanely biased against WCW at the time but even I had to get that show. SummerSlam 98 was just on another level though. That Highway to Hell theme was my damn anthem that year.

Summerslam 98 v. Taker- the legdrop on the Spanish announce table IIRC, it was actually on a spot where he kicked Taker in the head to counter a backdrop, and when Taker rose up his head caught him on the chin. And yeah, the build for SS 98 was the best of all time IMO.

Warrior with his old look (meaning the facepaint/tassels, not the gray hair) with his current rhetoric would be funny as hell. Just the idea of him going through the old entrance spiel with the rope-shaking and what not, then offending damn near everyone in sight. They could even have him put together a stable of followers...the Church of Warrior or some stuff liked that. That'd be great.

Yeah I loved Goldberg/Brock. That was great. Even though I think the match was decent to passable, I'd toss Big Show/Batista from Hammerstein in there for similar reasons. Diesel vs. Mabel from SummerSlam 95 is laugh out loud funny at certain times.