humongous2002

SD needs Heyman more than RAW but I guess WWE needs to get Orton over first.

It's probably going to be Mr. I don't know shit about wrestling Todd Grisham trying to announce a match in the worst possible way and a former ECW wrestler just ribbing on him.

His matches with Big Show were nothing but brutal and I guess you need to be a big Lesnar fan to actually claim it was a good match. And about having two people to make a **** match just check HBK/Sid at Survivor Series 96, HBK carried that big luggage to a great 4* match by working his ass off.

The same Brock that was turned face after he finally got over as a heel and then was turned heel a few months later after he bombed as a face, Lesnar the one dimensional pro-wrestler with the boring mic skills and flying on his own plane while everybody else was flying coach in a regular plane while buyrates and ratings were still low, yeah, Lesnar was a great WWE success. Considering he went from a green guy getting Goldberg chants to becoming one of the best workers in the company in less then 2 years- saying he was anything but a success is a pretty stupid thing to say. Brock was turned face in November 2002. He turned heel in August 2003. That's not a few months How is he one of the best workers when he was in matches with Eddie, Kurt and Benoit? Those guys make anyone look good without even trying, and don't get me wrong I think Lesnar is very athletic for your average hoss but not a great worker b/c he wasn't able to have a good match with anyone besides those 3 I've already mentioned. Being a so called good worker does not equal into a success since he wasn't setting the world on fire.

Well he wasn't the head writer for SD that long either but at least he was getting Angle, Benoit, Lesnar, Eddie, Rey and even Edge over, hey, I'll take that over nothing.

Vince needs to understand that the only solution is to have Heyman become the head writer again, Paul E. knows how to cater to the fans unlike the out-of-touch Vince McMahon.

The same Brock that was turned face after he finally got over as a heel and then was turned heel a few months later after he bombed as a face, Lesnar the one dimensional pro-wrestler with the boring mic skills and flying on his own plane while everybody else was flying coach in a regular plane while buyrates and ratings were still low, yeah, Lesnar was a great WWE success.

To me ECW was: 1) Funk vs Cactus Jack 2) Raven vs Dreamer 3) The Dudley Boys as the #1 heels in the company 4) Sabu and his roll of athletic tape vs the world 5) Taz with his motto Fuck The World 6) Triple Threat 7) New Jack, Balls Mahoney, Axl Rotton garbage matches 8) R-V-D Mr. Self Promotion 9) Luchadores and Japanese wrestlers bringing in the workrate 10) Joey Styles (OMG, HOLY SHIT, CATFIGHT), Joel Gertner (The Quintessional Studmuffin), Cyrus (the virus) I feel the same way about ECW too, just like the shirt used to say:"It's not for everyone!" because ECW was something special and WWE stole almost everything from them.

He is also known as Mr. "I love old school wrestling gimmicks", hopefully Brother Love is the next one to get fired and he should get replaced by Paul Heyman.

Sounds like Eddy and HHH.....er, I mean Angle had a great match and the NYC fans won't be able to see it since it was pre-empted on Thursday.

Kudos for Tommy, he truly deserves the promotion and hopefully he uses this promotion to benefit some "held down" ECW wrestlers. Dr. Tom don't let the door hit you on your untalented ass.

Thank God! Another clash of styles match between those two is something we don't need.

Who'd have thought? But he prefers DICK Cheney over Bush.

House shows mean jack shit. I don't mind Luther. He's the best OVW hoss they've brought up (not saying much). They should've given him Heidenreich's gimmick and thrown one of their shittier big men into the Angle's bodyguard role (and kept him out of the ring). Putting Guerrero in a feud with him though is dumb. Watching Eddie get buried is sickening. AS might've been right about Angle's influence. I can't recall the last time Eddie's won a high profile match. The best OVW hoss in the WWE roster right now is Batista, the guy has the look of a true monster, he could deliver in the ring every now and then and he is a great talker, Horshu is not on the same level with DAVE and he should be feuding with guys like Hass or even Rey (He's not even good enough to feud with Cena or RVD)not with a main eventer like Eddie.

Orton's song makes him look more generic than he already is.

3.5? I guess it's ok to say that Orton's push is not setting the world on fire .

Yeah, that's because he's a Franchise Wannabe. But HHH actually LIKES Flair though................. Yeah, but he initially stole Shane Douglas' gimmick and by the way how long till the fans start chanting Orton sucks again?

Great, Eddie is stuck in a midcard feud with the generic OVW hoss Luther and JBL is still the bombing champ.

After so much spotlight, Eugene has fallen fast... WWE has decided to shift focus away from Eugene following his high profile Summerslam program with Triple H. Eugene is not being blamed for low ratings or declining business, but WWE has opted to lower him and put the spotlight on Randy Orton as the company's top face. Eugene was not mentioned on RAW following Summerslam and last week served only as the valet of sorts for William Regal. WWE does not have plans to bring Eugene back up to the level he was at leading to Summerslam, even though his feud with Triple H has yet to really be resolved. Credit: Torch Newsletter Well since Benoit is not the world champion anymore WWE doesn't need Eugene to be the #1 RAW babyface .

Oh shit.. Psycho.

1) The WWE product is better now than it was one year ago.true 2) The WWE product is better now than it was three years ago.false 3) The WWE product is better now than it is five years ago.false 4) I believe the in-ring product has improved in the last three years.true 5) I believe the storylines/feuds/angles have improved in the last three years.false 6) I wish WCW and ECW were still in existence.yes(just ECW) 7) The WWE will have no real competition in the next five years.PROBABLY 8) It was smart for the WWE to go to a "less is more" in ring style.false 9) I believe the RAW brand is superior to Smackdown.they both suck 10) If I could convince Vince Macmahon to push one guy on either roster to the moon, it would be:RAW:Jericho or Benoit, SD:RVD.

Great or not, Liger will be mistreated just like Ultimo Dragon and other cruiserweights if he joins the World Hoss Entertainment.

The exact reasons behind the sudden change... WWE had been planning to turn Randy Orton face and break him away from Triple H and Evolution for awhile, however, the decision to do a surprise turn on RAW last week was due to two main reasons. One, both Vince McMahon and Triple H felt that it wouldn't be possible to stave off Randy Orton's quickly growing fanbase. Orton was already getting face pops everywhere and the decision was made to encourage the fans to cheer him now, rather than hold it off and risk overkilling the audience and making the turn anticlimatic. Two, business has been down and most rises have always been associated with the rise of a new top babyface. Everyone sees in Orton the potential to catch fire and spark business. The extremely low ratings for RAW and Smackdown going into Summerslam didn't help matters. Everyone backstage likes Chris Benoit and what he brings, but the feeling was that he would not be the guy to cause a business spark, which Orton has the potential to do in management's opinion. The risk of turning Orton face so soon is that fans could end up turning against him if he appears like "the chosen one" from management to be WWE's new face. To avoid that, WWE is planning to keep his character heel-like and edgy and not become too much of a traditional face. Consideration was given to doing a slow build for this entire angle. Orton would have remained in Evolution as World Champion, but tension would slowly grow between he and Triple H. As we saw, WWE opted to go with the sudden change, again, for the reasons listed above. Credit: Torch Newsletter

Since this is a Kurt Angle thread I would like to add this column from 411 Wrestling by Tim Livingstone: Kurt Angle’s Gordy List -The “Gordy List” is a list that has been used by many of the voters on the board for the WON HOF and was named after Terry Gordy when a series of questions was brought up that would determine whether or not a wrestler was HOF worthy. Since many people disagreed with what I had to say with Angle, I’m gonna comprise my own Gordy List for Angle’s sake to put in my “official” two cents: 1. Was he ever regarded as the best draw in the world? Was he ever regarded as the best draw in his country or his promotion? -Never. During his tenure, Rocky, Austin, Taker, and even HHH were ahead of him in his own company, and many international draws were better than him. 2. Was he an international draw, national draw and/or regional draw? -No regions in his time, but nationally, he was an alright draw, not great. 3. How many years did he have as a top draw? -None. Austin, Rocky, HHH, and Taker were all draws before he was. Even as the main event at WM XIX, the match that was advertised the most were two matches that went on before him in Austin/Rock and Hogan/McMahon. 4. Was he ever regarded as the best worker in the world? Was he ever regarded as the best worker in his country or in his promotion? -Not in my view. Angle was way behind The Trinity and the Big Four of All Japan/NOAH, and that was during the time when the All Japan scene was dwindling, so that didn’t exactly put him up there in my view. 5. Was he ever the best worker in his class (sex or weight)? Was he ever one of the top workers in his class? -Benoit was better than him, but Angle was BOOKED as better than Benoit. At his class, Misawa, Kawada, Benoit, Guerrero, Santito, Blue Panther, and Villano III were all better, but he was in the middle echelon. 6. How many years did he have as a top worker? -If any, it was in late 02-early 03, the period between the “Smackdown! Six” beginnings and WM XIX. 7. Was he a good worker before his prime? Was he a good worker after his prime? -It’s hard to distinguish a prime for the man, since he has only had a six year career. He was simply a good worker, nothing THAT outstanding. 8. Did he have a large body of excellent matches? Did he have a excellent matches against a variety of opponents? -He had an alright size of good matches, but mainly against Benoit and Guerrero. His matches with Rocky, Lesnar and Austin were ok/good, and his series with HHH was overrated. 9. Did he ever anchor his promotion(s)? -Not really. He was a top hand, but never was carried on to anchor the promotion as long as HHH, Rocky, Austin, and Taker were around. Now, he’ll have to be an anchor. 10. Was he effective when pushed at the top of cards? -This is where I do agree with his effectiveness. The crowds were very vocal in their heel or face heat for the man, and when he was pushed, the fans embraced him. 11. Was he valuable to his promotion before his prime? Was he still valuable to his promotion after his prime? -Not really before his prime, but now, with the top draws gone missing, he’s extremely valuable as a top hand. 12. Did he have an impact on a number of strong promotional runs? -He was pushed ahead of many during the InVasion, and he did well in many of the angles he was booked in, particularly with Benoit and HHH. 13. Was he involved in a number of memorable rivalries, feuds or storylines? -His series with Benoit is memorable, and when I think of Angle, that’s about all I can think of offhand that’s memorable, but even then, that series was not so great in itself. It was simply good for the time and good by WWE standards. 14. Was he effective working on the mic, working storylines or working angles? -The man could talk, he could put over a storyline, and worked an angle as good or even better than most of the top hands at the time. 15. Did he play his role(s) effectively during his career? -As a “technical whiz,” he did very well for himself. As the “stuck-up Olympic Gold medalist,” he did well for himself. His recent “commissioner” role wasn’t that effective, but for the most part, he has been effective in his roles. 16. What titles and tournaments did he win? What was the importance of the reigns? -WWE/F Champion 4 times -WWE Tag Champ (he and Benoit defeated Edge and Rey Mysterio in the final of a tournament) -WWF IC Champ -WCW US Champ -WWF European Champ -WCW Champ -WWF Hardcore Champ -2000 King of the Ring 17. Did he win many honors and awards? -2003 Wrestling Informer Wrestler Of The Year -2003 Wrestling Informer Match Of The Year (Chris Benoit) -2002 Wrestling Informer Feud Of The Year (Edge) -2003 Wrestling Informer Feud Of The Year (Brock Lesnar) -2003 PWI Wrestler Of The Year -2003 PWI Match Of The Year (Brock Lesnar) -2000 PWI Feud Of The Year (Triple H) -2003 PWI Feud Of The Year (Brock Lesnar) -2000 PWI Rookie Of The Year -2003 PWI Most Popular Wrestler Of The Year -2000 PWI Most Hated Wrestler Of The Year -2001 PWI Most Inspirational Wrestler Of The Year 18. Did he get mainstream exposure due to his wrestling fame? Did he get a heavily featured by the wrestling media? -From the get-go, he was exposed. Has been ever since. 19. Was he a top tag team wrestler? -Not really. Only 1 tag title reign to his name. Didn’t do that much in tag matches that would make me think he was one of the best a la a Bobby Eaton. 20. Was he innovative? -His finishing move was innovative, as was his pop-up superplexes, but outside of that, there wasn’t much else. 21. Was he influential? -Hard to tell. Haas and Benjamin, who he was a “mentor” towards, were great athletes in their own right, and Benjamin had gone on to be a top singles competitor on the RAW brand for a while before a de-push and an injury. Since Angle left, Hass has floundered. His influence was minimal at best; however, due to his status in the company, he has gained a considerable amount of pull backstage. 22. Did he make the people and workers around him better? -Not really. The matches in which he is most known for were between him and superior workers. He was not that great at being a ring general. 23. Did he do what was best for the promotion? Did he show a commitment to wrestling? -He did. He was a company man and showed great commitment to the WWE since his inception. 24. Is there any reason to believe that he was better or worse than he appeared? -For analysts, one could say that he was worse; he couldn’t sell that well and became spot-happy in matches where he had nobody to reign him in. For the casual fan, he was as good as advertised. So that is that for your boy Kurt. A good wrestler? Sure. A great wrestler? Maybe. HOF worthy? Not even close considering who was passed up in favor of him. It’s a shame. Credit: 411 wrestling

That's what RVD needs, to do the job to another untalented WWE homegrown rookie.