Coffin Surfer

And while were on the subject of "credible offense:" Kawada is/was without question one of the smartest, greatest workers ever involved in the business. His offense included brutal looking kicks, Backdrop Drivers, and real shoot style submission holds. He wrestled in a fed with guys like Kobashi and Misawa, who invented some of the most painful looking and creative offensive moves of all time. You know what Kawada's finishers were: A glorified Abdominal Stretch and a simple Powerbomb. And why? Because those were the moves that got the biggest reactions and it would make sense to climax his runs with the most over moves.

Fear Havoc is the only person here who seems to have the right idea. Essentially any Pro-Style match with cooperation spots so.....yeah pretty much everything from cartoon stooges like Flair to ass kicking brawler like Stan Hansen could be argued as "BIZ EXPOSING!" If you want realism in staged contests watch Takada or Volk Han. Great shoot style workers. And The Rock uses the People's Elbow as a finisher because it's a signature spot the fans react to more than the rest of his moves! Should he put it on the back burner to a Back Suplex because it looks more "credible" or "hurty?" Yeesh.

I can't convince you to like the match nor will I try, but if I may retort: "Schultz hits an elbow from the middle rope, and literally takes 15 seconds to go for a cover. There's a heel gloating when he thinks he's won the match, and there's stalling for 15 seconds doing nothing before going for a pin. " I fail to see how fucking with a game as hell crowd is a flaw, the apex of the peril segment before the comeback. Schultz is really letting the heat sink in as I even recall spit balls being thrown. It's up to the viewer to rate matches or workers best on crowd particpation, but we can't pretend they are not performing for a live crowd and fault them for it. "The obligatory Hogan no-selling comeback is present of course." Yeah, but it's after your "15 seconds of stalling." "Cartoonish bullshit that I certainly don't want to see, and it pretty much brings down every match I see it in." Here it's cool pay off that plays off Schultz gloating and taunting Hogan too much, foolishly pissing the Hulk off while giving him time to recover. "It's ridiculous and business exposing." Your a Misawa fan I take it. Big fan as well. Ever watched 10/92(GREAT match), pay attention to Misawa's comebacks. Obviously he was a more subtle performer than Hogan, so he's not making freak out faces. Though he does do the pissed, your strikes mean shit to me, I'm taking your head off comeback at least twice in this match. He doesn't even have the benefit of stalling to set it up. It's a characteristic of most faces everywhere, though Hogan started taking it to the extreme late in his 80s run. Seriously, it's like faulting Flair for begging off. "suppose that's why he pulled Schultz up from a pin, twice? Once after he had hit his finisher no less. In this particular match, that just doesn't make much sense." It makes perfect sense and it's the high point of the match, a good twist that helps make the match more special. It's not hard to figure out that Hogan is pissed about Schultz dicking him over for the first half of the match, he doesn't just want to win he wants to get even. Again, this isn't abstract stuff. "The match being clipped as it is makes it impossible to know whether the FIP sections were any good. " It's a problem indeed. However, it does look like it's just the old WWF flash clipping that moves things along a little faster. Just cutting out stuff like the guys rolling into the ring and what not. Though I must make it clear that my opinion is based off what's there, though I do refrain from giving it a precise rating or placement. I often just list it around ****+. "I don't know what your exact judgement of the match was, but I thought it was a passable match, so it's not like I'm saying it was some awful contest" Next to what I've seen with his work against Bockwinkle, it's the best Hogan match I've ever seen. Probably one of my favorite Vince era WWF matches though I feel it's below a level or perhaps two behind Jericho/Rock, Henning/Hart 93, Austin/Rock, Owen/Bret, and what's available of Savage/Adonis vs.Bruno/Santana. "his offense generally sucked (both execution wise [important] and variety [not so much]) " His Backdrop Suplex(which is very pretty), Leg Drop, Back Breaker, Axe Bomber, the Headlock/Hammerlock/Toe Hold combo and even the Boot are actually very well executed moves. Hogan kept it simple and tight, so there's really not much to fuck up. Outside of maybe his 91 series with Flair, Hansen, and Race, he didn't work too stiff though and in his lazier performances he didn't commit that much to his punches. His floor Backdrop Driver on Flair is actually very nice looking, brutal yet completey safe. But yeah, Hogan isn't no Benoit or even a Luger in the offense department. Not exactly something I would use to pimp Hogan though again, he didn't let great bumpers go to waste. "matches were just so, so basic (in terms of story). " That you evidently failed to even grasp if you were baffled by "pulling Schultz up from the finishers" bit. (wink, wink) Would you also label the storytelling in Lyger/Sammy (one of the greatest matches of all time) as "basic/simple" as both it and Schultz/Hogan tell a very similiar story, finding success with similar dramatic devices. Of course Hogan doesn't pull off a Moonsault to the floor and a Top Rope DDT....

"But whatever, if people want to express the virtues of routine things and claim a minute of control and a 30 second comeback (not literally, but close enough) constitutes a heel beatdown and face comeback, by all means." Truth be told I'm incredibly curious as to what it is about Shultz/Hogan that doesn't seem to appeal to most people on the internet. I'm very open to hear what you disliked about the match outside of insults and vague comments like the one above that doesn't even really leave me with the impression you saw the match in question. I found nothing about the match routine(especially for Hogan), which is why it stood out for me. A minute of control? I thought the match had a good peril(which obviously lasts longer than a minute..even in clipped form) with Shultz using some varied throat offense to keep Hogan choked out, as well as mixing in chair shots...etc. For my money, it's much better done than Savage's grab a hold and wait for heat approach against Hogan at Wrestlemania V. Shultz also did a reasonable job of playing a grumpy dick, a far cry from the usual chicken stooge approach Race, Funk, Savage, and Flair played against the Hulkster. Also interesting how they bypass the typical hot face start with Hogan not getting any offense until the climatic comeback. 30 second comeback? Wha. Yet another non-rountine aspect of the match is how they expand beyond the short face comeback/finish with Hogan pulling Shultz up from all of his finishers at the time like the Axe Bomber and Leg Drop to continue to control and eventually let Shultz work in what looked like a fluke comeback and win. I don't have to tell you how rare it is for a Hogan match to expand beyond the big comeback, let alone let the heel survive the Axebomber or Legdrop and take over one last time. Not routine at all. Hell, most US matches at the time weren't worked like this outside of some of Lawler's epics(who is vastly superior at this btw), if there are I would love to see them. Of course this trivial things don't even make the match what it is, if it wasn't for the Hulk acting like it was the most important match of his career and reacting so strongly during the comeback and payback run it wouldn't have worked nearly as well as it did. Compare this to Jumbo/Brody from say 83 if you've seen it. The midportion of the match is worked very similiar and Jumbo's payback run as brilliant as it isn't nearly as effective as Hogan's revenge sequence. Now, Jumbo is light years beyond Hogan as a worker and performer in every aspect but in this instance Hogan played the poed face niche better. Hope that doesn't open a can of worms as Jumbo is one of my favorite workers ever. Sorry for the rant but I'm puzzled as to how Hogan/Shultz can spur such strong emotions yet no-one ever seems to express their opinions beyond the stuff you wrote, which looks more like a criticism of Hogan's Wrestlemania forumla and WCW run. If you don't wish to respond or revisit the match that's cool, I just had to get that out there. Sorry this turned into a Hogan thread but it was heading that way before I got here.

I'm not gonna argue with you and drag this off topic. I was merely saying that I think the matches speak for themselves, if you don't like them there's nothing else I can do to convince you. I'm not trying to look down on anybody, so chill out.

"Some people don't like poorly wrestled matches just because they're loosely put together with a face vs. heel dynamic. " Good for them. "Hogan vs. Schultz had nothing going for it, unless you dig matches with any semblance of a face vs. heel story, no matter how poorly and vaguely it was done. If you think all a great match needs is a vague storyline, horrible looking offense and cartoonish selling, good for you. " Very fun match, reminds a great deal of Lyger/Sammy. Hogan getting dicked over, bloodied and taunted for the first half or so is just gold. I don't think there's a single comeback tease, he's just getting beat and choked down without any attempt at fighting back. And the comeback is such a high point with Hogan freaking out and pulling Schultz up for more punishment over and over again. I like cartoons but I really didn't find this match to be very cartoonish. Horrible looking offense, meh it looked fine to me. They keep it too simple to fuck anything up and Shultz elbowdrop wipeouts are brutal. Vague story? Come on, it's a pretty simple "Give and take" match. Shultz ambushes Hogan and humilates him, get's too confident, Hogan get's pissed, get's payback, Shultz gets a fluke opening but it's not enough to turn the tide. Nothing abstract about that. "Being a prick about it and saying others don't get it is just inviting people to flame you for being stupid though." The only person being a prick here is you. I'm not gonna call anybody stupid for not liking a Hogan match but if somebody wants to call me stupid for enjoying his matches, their more than welcome to waste their time. Hopefully, whoever else choses to respond will attack the post and poster.

"In case of a Hogan you would have to go with a "Money Match" than a Dream match. Obviously his wrestling ability is at best Middle of the road to usually punch kick little more than nothing. " I'm not sure how you define wrestling ability but: Hogan was a borderline great face worker. He didn't use a great deal of high impact offense because he came into his own in the AWA working with minimal offensive workers like Bockwinkle who used movement, simple story telling, drama and character to make their matches compelling. He didn't bump a great deal because he's the face and this was the time when the heels were there to put the face over and not themselves. He no sold and used pissed off comebacks because that's what most major faces were doing than, including the best face worker of the era, Lawler. Mat skills? Have dick to do with producing a great match in pro wrestling, if hammerlocks regardless of the context get you off that's fine but it's not how the industry works. I enjoy the urgency and feeling of importance Hogan brought to his better matches, his ability to make it look like he really takes it personal when he get's fucked over by a heel, and his understanding of simple but effective storytelling. I know his career had some terrible low points and his heights aren't the highest, but he has some really great face performances, as well as fun matches against guys like John Studd and Bossman who were incredibly unimpressive workers when he faced them. Not including his excellent matches with Bockwinkle/Adonis since their obviously working their match, I'm a big fan of Hogan's work in the following matches: vs. Shultz 84 "Minn. Massacre" vs. Funk SNME 86 vs. Race MSG 87 vs. Race SNME 88 vs. Flair MSG 11/91 vs. Flair MSG 12/91 If you don't like these matches, you just don't get it. "You would have to look at the prospects of a Hogan match not for skills vs skills but Icon vs Icon. " Boxing matches are skills vs. skills. Wrestling has nothing to do with actual wrestling skill, it's about an understanding of how to engage the viewer. "Which is why Andre vs Hulk was so memoriable not because of the wrestling, but because of the hype that was built on both men that it was Entertaining despite itself." Hogan/Andre is memroable because it's a good match, but let's not get into that thread again. edit-rant was way too long.

"Personally, I don't see why Hogan vs whomever is considered to be a dream match. Unless it's Hogan against another 80's wrestler, the styles won't mix and the match would suck. Just think of the Hogan vs Angle match of last year leading to Summerslam, Hogan did a sorry-ass boot to the chest and Angle laid down on the ring for like a minute. Rock is an exception, but then again, he's a exceptional performer and could have a match with practically anybody." Nonsense, a game Hogan has never been shy about taking full advantage of his opponent's bumping abilities. Not to mention Hogan had excellent matches with Race for crying out loud, who is a vastly superior offensive worker than Angle could ever dream of being. And yes, Race got use to his trademark Piledrivers, Belly to Belly Suplex, Gut Wrench Suplex...etc. And Hogan certainly had no problem throwing Race around. Hogan also pushed 91 Flair pretty far bumping wise, at one pointing dumping him on the floor with a Backdrop Driver. If Angle wanted to take that bump, I don't think Hogan would veto it though his matches had a bit of a"best of" vibe to them during his last run where he only used the nostaglic Wrestlemania spots. However I do recall him working in the Rock's bumps and spots like the run into the Chokeslam, Rock Bottom, and Scorpion Deathlock to keep up. I don't mean to create the impression Hogan was a great offensive worker as that really wasn't one of his strengths but I've rarely seen him let a good bumper get away during his better motivated performances. Come on, he Superplexed the Bossman off a cage regularly.

"wow that interesting. Actually my first wwf live event was at MSG in November 1991, just days after Survivor Series (but before Tuesday In Texas so Taker was champ-though he did not wrestle on this card)in which Hogan did face Flair one on one. I don't remember much about the match other than Flair appearing to have won with the use of brass knux, but the ref reversed the decision somehow. " Flair/Hogan MSG 11/91 and 12/91 are fantastic matches that should be sought out more. Flair did go over Hogan cleanly with the brass knuckles at 11/91, I don't recall the decision being reversed on the tape but I could be wrong.

I actually met Holyfield a few months back, nice guy but I can't forsee him stepping into a ring in the type of condition he's in. He could barely talk for crying out loud and he seemed rather "foggy headed." I believe he should have retired after he struggled to go the distance with Lewis in their second match, having to take several rounds off at a time where he would just cover up and become a walking target. If you can't stay active for twelve rounds, you need to hang the gloves up.

As I said the last time this topic came up, the Summerslam match is one of the last performances I would use to pimp Smith and one of the first to pimp Bret, whom I'm not even a fan of. Accounts vary but Smith was either incredibly nervous, doped out of his mind or both during the match while Bret has to continously regroup and call spots one at a time on camera to drag Smith through it. Smith's performance is more of an embaressment than anything. Watch out for the dangerous botches like Smith being out of place for the Pescado and nearly killing Bret by fucking up their signature Press Slam into the Top Rope Crouching spot . And while it's a fantastic performance from Bret in that he prevented the match from becoming a train wreck, I wouldn't call it a great match let alone one of the greatest in WWF history.

Leaving the heavily fortified liquior store, he hastily starts the short walk home. Unable to clinch his thirst anymore, he impatiently uncaps the bottle and brings the bag to his mouth. He downs the burning fluid in huge gulps, a rare moment of joy in his otherwise uneventful life. The sound of police sirens startles him but it's only momentary. "How can jail be any worse than this?" he reasons. The police car blindly speeds by and he can't help but feel a little disappointed. "Hey!" screams the alien voice of a child. Not having any friends let alone knowning any kids, he pays no mind to the voice even though it sounds like it's directed his way. A few more screams are given similiar treament until the child appears in front of him, blocking his way. No more than ten and wearing the cliches of poverty, the wide eyed child anxiously exclaims, "Your Danny Williams aren't you?" Biting his tongue, he steps around the boy and goes about his way. He only manages a few steps when the kid reappears in front of him, repeating the question like an annoying record skip. "FUCK OFF!" he scornfully replies, raising the bottle in a threatening manner. Terrified, the kid runs away screaming. "Danny Williams is dead! Do ya hear me? Danny Williams is DEAD!" he howls at the retreating boy. Feeling eyes upon him, Williams sees an elderly woman angrily staring at him from her porch. Not in a mood to be judged he flips off the old bat and wobbles away, shamelessly downing more booze. The morning street becomes a blur of colors and incohorent shapes. He feels a chunky foul tasting fluid rise in his throat, he tries to swallow it but it won't be held back. Doubling over, he involuntarily gags, letting lose a tidal wave of green vomit on some unlucky chap's boots. His vision clearing, Williams becomes impressed with the size of the man's boots, which are nearly as large as his. Done puking but still feeling faint, Williams stumbles back only to discover the boots belong to a looming tower of a man. Ducking his head back, Williams tries to find an end to the man. Blocking out the sun, the stranger stares down at Williams behind a forest of dreadlocks; his eyes reflecting a look of recognizition and disgust. "TNT? What the fuc...." is the last thing Williams grunts before collapsing to the sidewalk in a drunken sleep.

Hogan vs. Funk -Excellent little match with both workers fired up and in a creative mood. Hogan vs. Race -Not as great as their more competitive matches but still tons of fun, one of my favorite sub 10 minute matches with Race bumping like a lunatic and Hogan playing pissed and crazy. Rockers vs. Brainbusters -The great opening of a classic tag match anyway. Demolition vs. Brainbusters 2/3 Falls -Huge Demo mark and this is the closet thing to an excellent match you'll see them in. The mentioned Hogan/Savage angle, fantastic camp. And of course the Hogan/Bossman Superplex and the great death sell that follows.

"There is no one what will be as good as Elvis. He was the greatest thief of black music that ever lived." I wasn't aware that any race had the exclusive rights to a particular type of music. Anyway, I've really come to enjoy Elvis recently. His early work with Sun is fantastic, I was never aware that Elvis had that kind of vocal range in his day.

Deadwood kicked huged ass tonight. The Dan fight rivals Al/Bollock from the Season 2 opener, brutal stuff. Watch out for the hanging eye...ouch.

Television-Marquee Moon -It ends with "Elevation" as far as I'm concerned Iron Madien-Peice of Mind -It ends with "The Trooper. " Fiona Apple-Tidal -The last three or four tracks are complete throw aways. Iggy and the Stooges-Raw Power -Nothing bad but nothng comes close to approaching "Search and Destory" and "Gimme Danger"; too bad "I Got A Right" "Gimme Some Skin" and "I'm Sick Of You" were shelved, they could have filled the overall album out alot better.

Beer in hand, he flops in a rotten shell of a chair. The filthy one room apartment around him is decorated with dusty wrestling memorablia that one would think dates centuries ago, not a little over two years. The only window is open but no breeze will come, only more unbearable hot muggy air. Old laundry lays scattered across the dirty hard wood floor, still stained with the sweat and stink of years past. Pizza boxes and fast food bags cover every other inch of floor space, providing the roaches with enough food for generations. Now seated, he feels his soft swollen stomach fold beneath him and he tries to remember a time when that wasn't always the case. He can't. A cramp sets in and the sound of passing gas loudly echoes against the seat of his chair. The smell is unbearable but that's the price you pay when you live on take out food and cheap beer. He throws the bottle back, it tastes of dog piss at first but after a few more drinks it moves up to human piss. Nevermind how he knows what either tastes like. He belches, chunks of a greesy cheeseburger comes up with it. He swallows, feeling lucky that he won't have to scrap together change for a meal today. For a moment he thinks he hears the phone but than he realizes it's been turned off for over a month. Not like anybody would call anyway. Grabbing the first old t-shirt in arms reach, he wipes his sweaty brow and leans back his head. Closing his eyes, he attempts to sleep another useless day away, hoping it will bring him closer to death. Against his will, he begins to dream. Dream of days when thousands upon thousands of people were chanting his name. Waking with a startle in a darkened apartment, he begins to shamelessly cry. I'm not saying I'm coming back any time soon but if I did, this seems like a good starting point as any. Maybe I'm just a victim of boredom at work.

"Wasn't talking about you man." -No problem. " Yes, he was definitely getting cheered for his kick but persona and charisma but it was Bret's charactor that helped the fans get even more behind Austin during these times. Like an official "It's okay to cheer for Austin now, go ahead." The kick after the bout was the FINAL "It's okay to cheer for Austin now". Everything else was a subtle build until the climax of the kicking the leg bit." -It was the official turn and you won't find me complaining about Bret's post match antics. "The Piper bit with the bell is just something for the hardcore fans. A cool little extra (something I find Bret great for) so it doesn't matter if it goes over anyone's head because in that sense it's not meant to hit everyone squarely over it. " -Than it's not that important to the story. Perhaps if an inner conflict was played up more it would come out more clear that Bret was allowing himself to a cross a line. Hell, HBK has cheated his entire career but to watch the Angle match you would think he was selling his soul after the low blow and what not. Now that's an effective performance at work. Or even with Piper as melodramatic as his perforamnce was, he made the bell shot look like he tempting to kill his own son or something. Actions may speak louder than words but they don't speak louder than emotions. To bring up the brawling example in the match, it's really no different than the way say Bret would brawl with the Berserker at a Garden House Show. However you have someone like Hogan in the Garden Flair matches, who threw his punches and chops with so much more conviction than usual that you got the impression this time it really is personal. "The main point of it really is that Bret used it in the first place." -Yeah but it's not something that jumps out and says Bret has lost his soul. If there was no post match antics beyond this point, Bret would still walk away the babyface in the eyes of the majority of the fans.

"Some might think Bret should've been an out of control maniac in this match similiar to a guy who plays Texas hold'em constantly with raises and bets the whole way through no matter what cards he has." "I also want to point out to those who thought that Bret should be more of an insane physco is that it would've taken all the heat off of Austin's turn. " -I don't understand your continued implied insistence that I wanted Bret to wrestle like Brody on a coke binge when I thought I done cleared this up. -The commentary and Bret's Raw promo were the ones that tried to establish Bret as an out of control crybaby lunatic, not me. "A lot of the reason Austin is being cheered is because of Bret's suspected charactor flaws." -No. Austin was being cheered because people identified with his "kick ass and take names" character. If anything he was a return to the glory days of the early 80s with faces like Lawler and pre-cartoon Hogan. Something that had been missing in the early 90s WWF with humble faces like Bret and the crowds loved it. The Bret angle was to capitalize off this trend, not create it. "Going into the match Bret is frustrated at things and doesn't like how things are going. Little breaks in his good guy armor are appearing. His integrity is not all there." -Hard to say really. Bret was never above paying back heels(pulling Henning's hair and crouching him or even dropping Austin's neck on the ropes at SS 96). I also recall him taking a chair to Nash and getting a bigger negative reaction than he ever got here. "Bret himself is torn internally. I think he himself didn't even know what he was anymore and that scared him. He's fighting the dark side of himself with the good that remains inside. Perhaps the coolest thing about the bout is watching Bret try to stop his descent into madness. To see him battle what he wants to be against at least to a degree of what he (and the fans suspect) is. If we do not see that battle unfold before our eyes than Bret's struggle becomes weak." -I'm afraid I don't see with the same depth perception as you. I simply don't see any of this. Now HBK's performance against Angle at Wrestlemania actually displayed an inner conflict before our eyes with HBK's expressions and second guesses. You don't have to read into spots and do guesswork. "best spot in the history of wrestling nails Austin with a ring bell showing that A)When desperate he shows he's no better than Austin which is something Bret did not want to admit to and B)does the thing that Rowddy Roddy Piper would not do against Bret at WM VIII. The kick at the end of the match was beyond awesome charactor storytelling as well. I don't know if I've ever seen a charactor played better in a match before. " One thing is for sure, Bret is still getting huge face pops during this spot and after he makes Austin submit which means that the fans didn't appear to make that connection at all. And when the WWF was trying to make us forget Austin was using several fancy submission holds against Bret at SS 96, I doubt they would play off a "similiar but not identical" spot from nearly six years ago. If they did it went over the crowd's heads which isn't good wrestling. It's not until Bret refuses to release Austin and backs off from Shamrock that he's changed for the worse in the fan's eyes during this match. I like the match though even at the time I thought it was lacking during the second half , and again I thought it eventually accomplished what it set out to do, but I fail to see the depth in Bret's performance that he is often credited for outside of maybe when he's working the Sharpshooter during the tadatada finsh. Isn't he uncharacteristically shouting "give it up!" over and over or something, now that's a nice character touch the rest of the match is lacking.

That's all fair enough. Again I thought they got the most basic points across and ***1/2 is very generous from somebody as stingy as me.

"Pussy basketball, the slightest D is suddenly a foul, exciting superstars treated like gods, games suddenly becoming ridiculously close (because of ref calls suddenly swinging wildly to the team coming back), ." Amen to that. Personally, I'm not even watching the next two games unless there's a huge decrease of free throws. Fuck who wins, I just want to see an actual basketball game instead of free throw practice. How many total did Miami get, when I stopped watching they were already over 40 for fuck's sake.

"Being stoic, having a cool head, whatever, is a character trait." -Yes but it's a problem if your character becomes too cryptic, especially in a match with such complex booking. "Bret's actions made it somewhat clear what his character was. " -The spots are here such as Bret attempting Austin's ankle break chair stomp but he just doesn't commit to them. Anyway: "Well the heel is big, so he should dominate the face". But what if the face is more "skilled" and is able to wrestle evenly? So along those lines, "Bret has been acting like a crybaby in interviews and started acting crazy recently, so he should act like that in the match." But what if it's also part of Bret's character that he is able to keep his head together "when it counts", during a match? I guess the best way to sum it up is that there are variables when considering the logic of a match. The variable here is that a wrestling match itself is different than an interview or run-in. Just because Bret Hart bitches and violently goes after Austin outside the ring, doesn't mean he'll act that way in a wrestling match, where there are rules to follow." Bad analogy firstly. Interviews and set ups are designed to build expectations, set the mood if you will and it is odd to have Bret "Goddamn You All!" promo on the big Raw before the match lead to such a stoic performance if not flat out misleading. Also there were no rules in the match. wink, wink. edit-that should read Goddamn

"Let's please not build strawmen here and pretend my criticisms stem from the wrestlers not doing what I wanted them to do." "My problem is that Bret had NO character during the match" "Something that troubles me is how vague Bret's performance is, he's always been subtle but here he drifts into all out stoic territory. His performance leaves too many questions you have to fill in for yourself. " "But what if it's also part of Bret's character that he is able to keep his head together "when it counts", during a match?" If Bret actually protrayed that in the match, I certainly wouldn't complain.

And here it is: Bret Hart vs. Steven Austin Wrestlemania 13 I re-watched this for the first time in ages as kind of a rubber match to help determine my final placement of Bret on my list. Something that troubles me is how vague Bret's performance is, he's always been subtle but here he drifts into all out stoic territory. Odd since I recall he had a complete breakdown on the Raw leading up to Wrestlemania. Not once in this match did I get the impression that he was a man driven over the edge or even the excuse making whiner that Vince keeps billing him as, he doesn't even look to have a chip on his shoulder. A funny moment is when Jr is ranting about how "Bret is an out of control animal" when he actually looks very much focused and in control as he indifferently puts the chair to Austin's leg. The spots are here such as Bret attempting Austin's ankle break chair stomp but he just doesn't commit to them. The manner in which Bret goes about setting up the spot conveys nothing about his mindset, is he giving Austin a taste of his own medicine, is he frustrated, is he over the edge? His performance leaves too many questions you have to fill in for yourself. The crowd seems to buy it as a "taste of own medicine" spot or perhaps their just popping because it's considered a death spot in the promotion. There are however some very effective segments, such as the early leg work. While Bret doesn't tell us much about himself with his assault , it does give Austin the opportunity to get the crowd behind by playing up to his most likable characterstics. He may be a rule breaker and a punk but he's not coward or a quitter, and this is perhaps the best instance of them building to the climatic finish during the actual match. As always Austin seems to nail his character perfectly, especially during the bloody finish. However he tends to lose momentum after the hot transitions and have trouble moving the match foreward, often falling back on the standard Bret bumps to fill his time. Of course the match is an overall success and the as the fans are cheering Austin and booing Bret at the end but I'm left wandering if that would be the case if not for the great finish and post match antics. Of course they do get the most basic points across and most of the time, Austin is effectively protrayed as the character to get behind which is essential to the match's success. ***1/2.

"Have you seen what I thought about the Bret vs Austin Mania match before?" If you haven't seen what I thought I'll dig my old post up on Smarkschoice. "I loved Bret's charactor in the match and how he portrayed it. I'm guessing here but I think the way you wanted Bret's charactor in the match would've been the wrong route to go down. I thought he did it just right. Brilliantly in fact. Austin did as well. " My problem is that Bret had NO character during the match. Let's please not build strawmen here and pretend my criticisms stem from the wrestlers not doing what I wanted them to do. Remember I love subtle performances and I don't find anything being conveyed during a great deal of Bret's work, he's exactly what prime Misawa is often unfairly bashed for being. "See, I also never thought the match climaxed where you say it does for you. It's been awhile since I watched it though." The crowd seemed to agree with me.