Coffin Surfer

"Hulk Hogan vs Randy Savage, WM5: Megapowers explodes and Savage carries Hogan to a good match. Savage was a god back in the late 80s to early 90s." This actually wasn't a true carry job. Savage was the better worker, and it shows, but Hogan as always had a great sense of timing, and he actually feeds Savage a couple of good transitions here(the early Backdrop Suplex, when he dips his head for Savage's kick, the missed elbowdrop that sets up the Flying Knee).

"I felt it was an entertaining brawl, the crowd reaction really helped, and I liked the ending, especially with the sledgehammer false finish. I'd go ***, maybe ***1/4. " Wow, almost as good as Lyger/Ohtani. (rolls eyes). "Randy Savage vs Ricky Steamboat, WM 3: Greatest WWF match ever, number 3 on greatest match I ever seen(2: Misawa vs Kaweda from 94 and 1 being Steamboat vs Flair from Clash 6)" Riiiiiiiight.

Uh, RVD was an All Japan, and he looked really out of place, especially when he was in the same ring with uber workers like Hansen and Kawada. Johnny Ace and the Big Bossman did better in All Japan, and unlike RVD were actually able to contribute in some great tag matches. Dan Kroffat was able to carry RVD to a decent match though. There is no such thing as "Japanese Style". Each promotion and weight class has it's own unique spin on pro style. I also hope that this comment on Ultimo Dragon was a joke: "He wrestles too Airy for Japan " since you know he was trained in the New Japan Dojo, and had that classic with Ohtani and all.

Yeah, I've seen your top 50 list. (rolls eyes). anyway: Tsuruta vs Tenryu, AJPW '6/5/89 -classic. Furnas & Kroffat vs Fuyuki & Kawada, AJPW '6/5/89 -Great until Furnas gets so confused that Kroffat has to audibly call the finishing spot, which get's botched anyway. Williams & Gordy vs Misawa & Kawada, AJPW '1/30/93 -Excellent but not really great. O. Hart vs Benoit, NJPW (handheld) -If this is what I think it is, it's really just a good exhibition. Benoit & Liger vs Steiners, NJPW -Not bad. njpw 6/11/96 black tiger vs benoit -Probably both guy's best performances, which is really saying something. ajpw champion carnival williams vs kawada 10/22/94 -Da hell? Champion Carnival is 4/94, this is the TC match. Carnival Finals is one of the greatest singles matches of all time, while the Triple Crown match is just good. Kawada vs Kobashi, AJPW Champs Carnival '97 -Excellent, but these two have had way better.

This is just.....

IIRC, Beniot set up the Neckbreaker by whipping Micheals into the ropes, and ducking his head for it in the time honored transition spot. Beniot than sold it as such,"hey dude, work my neck." Micheals used the Enzui Lairat, but than looked lost, and acted like he didn't know what to do. After some stalling and pondering, he decides to use the elbows, but by than, Beniot had done lost his patience. Micheals just didn't seem to know how to fill his time with anything remotely intresting. All Beniot was trying to do was give him some focused offense, but Micheals didn't no how to react, probably because it would mean breaking from his routine. Beniot stops selling the neck after the Ab stretch, because he had spent the past several minutes on offense, trying to work a back storyline into the match, since the neck thing became out of the questoin. Beniot did almost all the work in the match, be it setting up the tiny portion of neck stuff to controling the body of the match, to controling the end of the match. Beniot was also the one giving Micheals all the openings at the end, such as letting him counter the third Backdrop and hit the Elbow Drop after the Superplex attempt.

I've done told you about how he puts over the headlocks. Following the headlocks, Kawada loses the battle of will strike exchanges, because he doesn't have enough gas to go to toe to toe with Kobashi after being in the headlocks for so long. Kawada's fantastic selling such as his collapse after the knee to the gut, and the chops to his neck. Or how almost everything they do reinforces the theme of the match. Kawada's dominant "putting the breaks on" transitions(such as refusing to be whipped, suplexed, or cutting off the DDT) to stop Kobashi's runs, compared to Kobashi's determination spots to take back over such as diving back into the ring after being knocked out, pushing forward while Kawada tries to hold him off with kicks..etc. Kawada's use of the Juji-Gatame at a time in the match where it would be bought as the finish...etc.

Damn, no wonder I don't post here no more. Instead of somebody trying to defend HBK's work or lack there of(which is impossible), they just start accusing people of being HBK haters. Oh brother. I would expect better from a mod, Goodear. Just watch the match. HBK doesn't do anything that Beniot doesn't force feed him. I don't give a damn about other matches, Beniot was defiently selling the neck tonight, all the way up into the mid portion though HBK quit working on it long before that. To his credit HBK did do the Enzui Lariat, but after that he got really lost. It took him forever to decide to do the back elbows, but than he just went back into choping mode. Beniot had to steal control back of the match, because HBK wasn't doing anything on offense, and was totally killing the crowd and the match. All HBK had to do was a heat segment, with him cranking a chinlock on Benoit's neck. I also don't think the heel/heel act was the plan. Since HBK wasn't contributing anything, Beniot just had to carry the match with his offense, and work the heat segments.

Oh, If were just talking about the present, than I'd agree. Still tonight, it looked like he tried to do something smart with his selling of the neck, and his use of the Sharpshooter after the backwork, it's just opponent didn't do his part.

Which oddly enough goes back to why I said HBK didn't do jack shit in the match, he seemed to have no idea how to use his time. Actually, Beniot is at his best when he's working smart instead of bumping, but there's only so much you can do when you appear to be working with corpses.

Yeah, I said I liked his frantic selling at the end. The leg move, hiptoss with the Abdominal Stretch is actually a pretty elementary counter, you just don't see to often in the modern WWE(or at least I haven't). But still Micheals looked lost when he was on offense, and couldn't seem to figure out how to work over Beniot's neck, which he kept giving him the opening to do, it's just HBK didn't seem to know how to go about doing it, or just wasn't interested. I also don't recall him ever putting over the back work as threat, other than looking tired, until he was put in the Scorpion Deathlock. This for the most part was a total carry job, it's just Beniot wasn't able to get a good match out of HBK.

Should we act surprised about this? Should you? I just posted that in response to the ****, Great Match review I read.

My mini-review of the Raw main event(originally posted on another forum): Beniot vs. Micheals 2/16/04 Talk about a one man show, aside from some frantic selling at the end, HBK doesn't do jack shit aside from stagger around like a drunk. Judging from his selling of the neckbreaker, Beniot appeared to want to set up some sort of story involing his bad neck, but HBK is too cluessless to figure out what he's doing, and decides to fill his time by choping, leaning against the ropes, and stumbling around in a daze. Things get slightly more intesting when Beniot takes control after the commercial break, he goes after HBK's back, but Micheals can't be bothered to sell it or anything. Beniot gives Micheals a couple of openings for some decent spots towards the end, before they take it home with the typical screw job finish.

Well, it's his first major singles win over Kawada anyway. Kobashi beat Kawada in the 98 Carnies, and from my understanding it was made to look like a fluke with Kobashi absorbing a High Kick to plow forward and hit the Burning Lariat for the flash pin(I can't remember where I heard that, so take it with a grain of salt or something). They redo the spot at 6/98 for a hot near fall. I for one find the match more and more intresting every time I watch it, they(as in mostly Kawada) do some many little smart things throughout the match, I didn't pick up on most of them on my initial viewing. Sure, I have no idea what the hell is going on with that weird mat work spot at the beginning(maybe it's Kawada fucking with a crowd that's conditioned for super hot openings?), but once Kobashi starts working the headlock it's all gold. As I done went over in the email, Kawada's selling of the headlock is brilliant. Everytime he gets out of the damn thing, he's too worn down to do go to toe to toe with Kobashi, and ends up getting his ass kicked. Kobashi brings all his underdog determination spots to the table, as he continously plows forward in hopes of overwhelming Kawada. Kawada on the other hand, does his best to hold his ground, but he just can't stop the big Orange wearing bastard from coming. The Lariats at the end is one of the finest jobs of capping off a story I've ever seen as he runs through Kawada's defenses. Forget no selling head drops, this is what fighting spirit is all about. One of my favorite matches of all time, and truth be told, I would rank it just as high as 1/97.

Actually ***3/4, for reasons I've done explained. There are simply better matches. Just because I'm not gonna toss out a blinding winter of snow flakes doesn't mean I'm saying the matches are bad. Kawada/Taue 1/15/91 is a better worked, more intense brawl than Austin/Hart Wrestlemania 13, and is almost as rich in story, yet it isn't even a top 50 All Japan match.

Bring it on. Yeah, that's about as high as I would place them, because I've seen plenty of better matches. I heard of under-rating, but damn. Let me guess, Kobashi fan? Not underrating if you look at the bigger picture, there's more to wrestling than just what the WWF has produced in the past couple of years. Kobashi fan? Not one of my favorites. Kobashi could do something incredibly brilliant, only to turn around and do something totally retarded. If were just talking 90s All Japan, I always thought Misawa, Kawada, Taue, Hansen, and Jumbo were all better peformers at the peak of their careers. However, when he was motivated and focused he could be just as great if not better than any of them as evident in 4/93 vs. Kawada, and 5/91 vs. Jumbo.

Bring it on. Yeah, that's about as high as I would place them, because I've seen plenty of better matches.

The match wasn't that long. It lasted a little under 15 minutes. I haven't seen the full Wrestlemania 3 tape version in ages. I only have a clipped version(Wrestlemania's greatest matches with redubed commentary), where it cuts with Gorilla saying something like,"were passed the 40 minute mark". Maybe Monsoon lost his mind or was just trying to make it seem more epic. I'll have to find the full version. edit: Just watched tape. Monsoon's exact words are,"This match has already gone by some thirty something minutes" after the clip. Wow.

Sadly, I haven't seen Flair/Savage, Warrior/Hogan, or Warrior/Savage in years, nor have I seen the two most recent Wrestlemanias. Still, from what I've recently seen I would go with: 1. Rock vs. Austin Wrestlemania 17 ***3/4 -Austin plays the determined challenger role to peferection, even going so far as to attack the Rock before the bell. Despite the out of place, mood killing goofiness with Vince, this match has perhaps one of the very best final runs I've seen in a U.S. match. Austin's body language and emotion really makes the ending, as he does a remarkable job of displaying frustration and his win at any cost attitude. Very smart, and surprisingly deep match. 2. Austin vs. Hart Wrestlemania 13 ***3/4 -You know the story. Hart brings the hate, but sadly he doesn't work as well with Austin as the Rock did in a similar setting. While the story is dramatic, it just isn't as smart as the work in Rock/Austin. 3. Micheals vs. Ramon Wrestlemania 10 ***3/4 -A well built super fun spot fest that tells a good story centered around the match's gimmick. 4. Bret vs. Owen Wrestlemania 10 ***1/2-3/4 -Owen's string of nearfalls in the middle of the match is some of the most brilliant wrestling in WWF history. Sadly, you got the out of place leg work, and Bret's superhero escape of the Sharpshooter. But these are just minor complaints in an otherwise excellent match. But Micheals/Ramon is just so well put together the whole way through, and so much more focused that I think it beats out the "wrestling" match. 5. Savage vs. Steamboat Wrestlemania 3 ***1/4 -As the challenger, Steamboat's three thousand roll ups make since as does his control offense with the armbars. 6. Piper vs. Hart Wrestlemania 9 *** -An intersting battle of mind games, and an effective if not somewhat cheesy dramatic finish. Bret's Jumbo impersonation at the the beginning with the wristlock is something you don't see to often in Vince era WWF. 7. Beniot vs. Angle Wrestlemania 17 *** -Simple solid storytelling. 8. Savage vs. Hogan Wrestlemania 5 **3/4-*** -It's really amazing how much Hansen/Hogan the following year kills this match. Still, a smart match until the Hulk up. I'm running blank now. edited-due to my mistake on match time. Also decided to add 1/4 to Savage/Steamboat after re-watching it. If it's really around 15 minutes, I guess I've only missed about 2-3 minutes of it.

Well get this: I like the match,and I would put in the top 3 greatest junior matches of all time. One of the reasons that I like the match so much, is because I like how they take the time to put over each other's offense, which is something you rarely see in go-go junior matches, or most matches period. I think the ending is an excellent way to cap off the story. If you don't like the match, than it's your loss.

No, the point was that he isn't making facial expressions while lying on the mat, it's that he's not lying on the mat. There is only one portion where he lies on the mat, and it lasts 7 seconds. That's the point. I'm sorry if you expect guys to just jump up after taking finishers, but that's not the way smart matches work.

Survivor Series is the much better constructed and laid out match, featuring tons of smart work from Steven Austin, particulary the super hot finish where he tries something like five straight credible submissions over Hart. Austin also perhaps never did a better job in his whole career of filling his time with meaningful focused offense. Bret also brings some good revenage spots to the table, perfectly playing his role as the noble wrestler pushed to the breaking point by the upstart punk. The Wreslemania match just doesn't hold up to the smart work of the SS match, and I just don't buy Austin claiming to not know any submissions when he busted a shitload of them out in their match just a few months earlier. Great storytelling and all, it's just the match itself is only good. Bret's brawling also isn't very good here, as he seemed kind of lost particurally in how he misses a couple of transition cues in the form of a boot to the gut. The brawling portion of the SS match was better, plus it had the added bonus of being built too so that it came of as an explosion of mounting tension. Plus the revenage spots also added to the intensity, while the Wrestlemania match never really seemed to capture that type of hatred, even with the blood, brawling and use of weapons. The match also sadly doesn't hold up to a couple of other WWF brawls, the more creative Foley/Micheals Mindgames match, and Rock/Austin Wrestlemania 17(which is the closest the WWF would ever come to All Japan's great single matches in terms of style). Neither of those can hold up to the SS match though, which is in a whole other league. It represents to peformers pushing the WWF style to it's limits, and beyond to produce one of the best singles matches this side of the ocean.

Maybe Ray should read Chris' review at Air Raid Crash. Hokuto vs. Kandori review Assuming he hasn't already.

Generalizing is incredibly annoying. I also find stereotyping to be terribly offensive, even if it's just wrestling fans. It also comes off very ignorant.

Please don't call me a smark, it insults my intelligence. Apparently your reading the wrong reviews. "The basics of the match weren't even perfect so how the story could be is beyond me." Care to take some of your own advice, and explain what the hell your talking about? It's easy to just say something without backing it up in the slightest. Jumbo and Misawa 6/90 perhaps, does an excellent job of getting across the story through the actual work, because you know, that's what story telling is, you make it seem like were making this shit up. Now I will explain why, even though I'm probably wasting my time: Jumbo easily toys with Misawa early, dominating him with simple stuff like a Scoop Slam. Taking him far to lightly, he goes for his Backdrop finisher waaaaaaaaaaay to soon. Misawa counters and uses his youthful quickness to kill Jumbo with a barage of dives. Jumbo has a problem now, Misawa is no longer the scared kid who had to control him with a headlock, he's a serious threat who's capable of scoring big when he makes even the smallest mistake. It's on the screen, it's really happening, I'm not making this up. From there Misawa bullies Jumbo with his elbow smashes, which have proven to be a serious threat to the Man, as evident in a six man tag leading to the match where he got k.o.ed by one when wasn't expecting it. But when Misawa makes the mistake of slowing things down, Jumbo out wrestles him, and muscles him around in the Surfboard. However, Misawa uses his superior athleticism to escape. There's that the whole storytelling thing, you say doesn't exist. Getting cocky, Misawa starts disrespecting Jumbo with bitch slaps on the rope breaks. Jumbo doesn't like this, and knees the shit out of Misawa with a cheap shot of his own. He than slows the tempo back down to his favor with the Cobra Twist. Jumbo continues to wear down his faster foe with ease, but when he goes to the well one to many times with that gut buster thingy, Misawa breaks away, and hits the a high flying move. Once more, Misawa capitlizes on Jumbo's mistake by brutallizing him with a series of dives. More of that storytelling stuff. Jumbo plays with imagery from his own past throughout the match, such as when he uses the Jumbo Killer(Stun Gun) to stop Misawa's run in a simlar manner the vertern Terry Funk used the desperation move to stop the upstart Jumbo in their 76 classic. Jumbo's scared now, and he starts covering Misawa after every little move, further showing his desperation. Watch the match if you don't believe me, this is actually happening, it's real. Not wanting to risk the Backdrop again, Jumbo recycles his moveset, and goes for the double arm Suplex again. Misawa smartly counters, and hits an elbow. All the head trauma is accumliating, and Jumbo collapses from just the single elbow. However, when Misawa goes for the Frog Splash again, Jumbo gets the knees up, showing that he's not the only one using his brain tonight. Jumbo smartly slows it back down with the Crab, wearing Misawa down, while he recovers from the last run. Jumbo hits some more bombs, but he still can't find anything that can put the young lion away. Having no choice now, Jumbo has to use his finisher to put down Misawa. But Misawa kicks off the ropes, pushing Jumbo's already fragile head into the mat. Misawa hits his German Suplex finisher, but it's gonna take alot more than that to put away the Man. Misawa goes for the Tiger Driver, but Jumbo's to big, and crushes him into the mat. However, Jumbo crouches himself on a Dropkick to reinforce the fact that the win's gonna be fluke. And of course we all know the fluke roll up ending to show that while Misawa can't beat Jumbo decively yet, he's still the chosen one of his generation. Now do you see how they use their actions to tell the story. I can write a seperate novel on why the crowd reacts to each individual spot, but do you really need everything fed to you like a baby?