Shanghai Kid

Stallone has pissed this crowd off, their close to boo'ing him off the stage.

Hogans legacy will always transcend 'the backstage politics'. Theirs always going to be people that hate him, but overwhelmingly Hogan will be remembered in as a positive light as any other wrestler in history. I just love Hulks line about "Hulkamania will live on long after I'm gone'. And it's true, people will always know him.

I wonder who the hell thought to put Bob Costas on there.

Pipers still the best promo man in the buisness.

I'd like to hang out with Piper for a day.

Awesome speech by Piper so far, he's as witty as ever.

Piper looks in great shape actually, that's a good sign. Theirs a little bit of Piper in everyone. WTF was that Knobbs story Flair was talking about?? The guy can't even speak coherently anymore.

Piper is definetly one of my favorites.

I think Washingtons backcourt will own Chicagos, but the Bulls have a very tough frontcourt. It will be an interesting series, I really think homecourt advantage will be the deciding factor.

You do that type of thing on Raw, you NEVER consider doing something like that in a Wrestlemania main event. That would literally send the WWE down the toilet.

It was a bit overly long, but you have to admit, that was a money promo. Everything was good except the odd current event reference with the whole "congress won't stop me from pulling the plug". Of course, some will come on here and say the promo sucked, it's to be expected with the HHH hate, but the guy is not a bad heel by ANY stretch.

Fair enough, maybe those PPVs did not draw great, but I wouldn't compare them to WCW since in December WCW was having it's biggest show ever in Starcade. And I still don't think the buyrates of those PPVs would all be based on Shawns ability as a promo man, you still have to look at the overall product and where the company was at the time.

Actually I was throwing that out there cause it seemed like he was stating it as a fact that Shawn had never done a good interview to sell a match. I wasn't saying that to help my argument or disprove his, I should of worded it better but I was trying to get the point across that no matter if he thinks Shawn didn't do good promos to sell matches or if I believed the contrary, theirs really no evidence to prove either theory right.

If Shawn was good at selling a match maybe he wouldn't have been one of the worst drawing Champions of all time. He didn't do so bad as a heel, did he? Heat wise, he was great as a heel. Drawing wise, not that hot. The three December 1997 to February 1998 PPV's with him on top (while he didn't actually wrestle at the Feb PPV, nobody knew he wasn't going to show up until the last minute, so he can be credited/blamed for his part in the buy rate) all trailed what WCW did for their PPV's in those respective months. December- Main evented against Ken Shamrock, why would anyone expect that to draw? January- Main evented against the Undertaker, but the main draw on the show as always is the Royal Rumble. February- Didn't wrestle, the main attraction in this match again was Steve Austin. Correct me I'm wrong but WCW was still very hot at this time and was having its biggest ppv ever in Starcade 97. I don't really think you can put the blame on Shawn for not taking away viewers from WCW at that particular time. From January on really Austin was the main draw and focal point of the show.

Actually you seemed to misunderstand. How was I using 'lack of facts' to prove that point of view wrong? Thier is no proving that wrong because it's opinion based. When your talking about promos you can't prove someone else's opinion wrong all you can do is give your own opinion. I said that going by my personal opinion and everything I had heard over the last 10 years from other fans I had never gotten the impression that Shawn was bad on the mic. I wasn't stating it as a fact or even using it disprove how he feels about Shawn as a promo man because that's impossible. I KNOW Shawn was a hated heel in DX, and alot of that was because in his promos he was coming off as super obnoxious and unlikeable, and he was getting alot of promo time in those days also.

I respectfully disagree. I thought his DX promos DID help sell his feuds with the Undertaker and Bret Hart big time. I thought even some of his promos with Chris Jericho before their Wrestlemania match were good. I thought his barbershop promo when he turned on Marty Jannety was great, I thought his promos for Austin were great, including where Mike Tyson joined DX. Promos are really opinion based, I like some HHH promos that everyone else seems to hate, so I can see where we differ here. Theirs no 'facts' that can support the claim that Shawn has never done a good interview to sell a match and theirs no evidence to the contrary. For me it's got nothing to do with being a fanboy, I'm a Shawn Micheals fan but I know and acknowledge his shortcomings, just going by my personal opinion and stuff I've heard for the last 10 years, I've never heard any kind of consenus that Shawn was BAD on the mic, he had a natural charisma and unlikeabliity about him as a heel that carried his promos. If your saying he isn't the league of Flair/Austin/Rock/HHH which are some of the best promo men of all time (maybe not HHH), than that's fine, but my point is I've never thought Shawn was bad on the mic to a point where people should point it out as a weakness. I'd like to see some particular examples of a guy doing a promo that single handedly 'sold a match', that's rare in itself and if Shawn doesn't possess that than that's fine, but I would think only a few guys do and certainly not Marty Jannety. Marty was a bland face and an even blander heel.

How much would a huge thing like this cost?

I don't know about Marty working a top program with Bret, he had little to no charisma and couldn't cut heel promos. Yes he was a better, much smarter worker, but I don't know if he would have gotten as over as Shawn did Shawn has still never really learned to do a good interview, and he's been a top star for years. Who's to say Marty, booked the same way Shawn was, couldn't have accomplished the same thing. Yay let's rewrite history in order to make Shawn the prick look bad. Bull****, Shawn's always been a good promo man as a heel. His DX promos were awesome. As a face he gets bland, but he was NEVER known as bad on the mic and saying it now just continues to prove to me that people can't look at Shawn without a hidden agenda, can't give the man props for what he's done because of 'backstage stuff'.

When exactly has Jannety EVER proven he can do any of that?

Wow, it's crazy how underrated Shawn Micheals is. I've NEVER heard the idea that Jannety was ever a better worker than Shawn until I read this thread. I honestly think some of you are making that up just because of personal dislike from Shawn. Everything I've heard from the Observer to fans over the years goes with what I thought which was Shawn was the clear standout in the group from a working stand point and a personality stand point. It was Shawn who even as a Rocker was having good matches with Ric Flair and of course once he got a chance as a singles wrestler he got himself very over and was able to CARRY alot of slugs to a good match. And some of you go as far as to say that Jannety actually would of done more with a push than Shawn did? Crazy. Marty was never able to get the crowd into a match like Shawn did, and Shawn is the MASTER of perfectly timing his comebacks. As far as telling a story goes, I can't imagine Marty ever being able to do Hell in a Cell like Shawn did. Shawn can be a good face and a heel, Marty as a heel was a joke.

Yeah but from a kayfabe perspective he's not going to get any tonight. Getting some from Stacy>>>Proving a point to Taker Now the male audience is going to REALLY think Orton is gay.

Giving Stacy the RKO....it makes no sense.

Whose acting indignant? It's fine to me if the promo gets negative responses, personally I liked it. I just made the HHH bashfest comment because that's what people like to do. Actually, this thread would be fine to just discuss things on Raw.

Well..I guess it was an opinion only shared by me. In that case, if it hasn't already been done, let this thread now officially turn into an HHH bashfest.

Yeah but he did it in a way that made sense. He set up the theme of his promo which was decisions and he executed it perfectly. What was he supposed to do? Come out and put Benoit over? That would of made alot of guys around here happy.