Justice

No wonder it's so easy to trample all over your ass.

It would be interesting to see how much of this gain is due to affirmative action. I understand that they've gained under AA. BUT. They've made enough of a foothold to start moving past it. LBJ once said that "One can not expect someone whose limbs have atrophied under the chains of slavery to run a full race, so we must give them a head start". Just as well, they will never truly recover if they continue to rely on this head start. I never said that AA didn't do anything before, but it's out of date now and now social change has to take place rather than continually trying to artificially create equillibrium.

My program? I'm not even sure if it's the best way. I don't, however, think "your" idea that time will simply heal all wounds is necessarily true. For example, do you have evidence that the education gap is closing? The fact that more and more minorities are occupying higher jobs in high society, plus the natural osmosis of them into higher education. Aren't they also moving into the middle class more and more? I'm almost dead sure of that. Same with women, perhaps even moreso. Just the simple fact that more of them are making it into better paying jobs necessitates that their children will likely have better education and a better chance at a good job. They are moving up in socio-economic ladder, so by deduction one would guess that they are getting better education and have access to it as wlel. But again, your reasoning is the simplest reason that your entire argument fails. If you try to pass something that you want under the header of "Social Justice", it'll fail immediately because of the SCOTUS. It's illegal to try and enforce social justice on people who aren't necessarily at fault, which is entirely what your odd idea of "Taking away of unnecessary privilege" reeks utterly of.

No. We never claimed that. But AA is not the way to change it. I discussed this in my earlier post: The problem is that we are only beginning to clear the education gap between races and genders. We already see many minorities taking upper level posts in companies. Seriously, it's been only 30 years: How many doctorates do you really expect to see in such a short time? In all honesty, time will close the gap as minorities become more and more educated. Your program based on a pseudo-sense of social justice is not needed when gradual social change will eventually fix it. Your reasoning is extremely flawed, as well: Loss of undue priviledge has never been a valid justification ever since Bakke, which is why your defense falls so flat.

Again, how recent are the studies? You keep bringing up these things without actually putting a source on it. Not only this, but I really do question the idea of "Similar interview habits". Mannerisms are very unique to people, and can have different effects on different people. I doubt that you can really measure 'interview habits' as something because trying to mimic another person's habits can come off as very false or awkwards: if you had someone imitating my mannerisms in an interview, they'd come off in completely the wrong way. Provide more information on your source, otherwise I'm not really sure on it.

The privilege of being born WHITE?!?!?! So punishing someone for being white isn't racist...how exactly?? Dude... it's white and MALE. You have to remember that part of it, otherwise your argument is completely wrong.

No, it's not undue. There's no proof that it's undue anymore. It's a loss of priviledge on the basis of race or gender. It's discrimination. Please, get out of 1968 and actually look at today's society.

Explain to me how not allowing someone to get a job because he is white and the other guy is black is not discrimination.

WHAT?!? If you're going to discriminate against me for the rest of my life because of the past, you better give me one good week of preferential treatment so you can at least justify this shit. Yeah, for real. Where the hell is my harim?

Discrimination isn't nearly as widespread as when these huge programs were innacted. The problem is, these programs can't get small enough to fight the discrimination at hand. Right now we just need to wait for the education gap to naturally close itself rather than continuing tensions through reverse discrimination. I'd hardly say that discrimination is gone. But I do not think it's nearly as widespread as you'd like to believe and that it's too small for programs to help. Again, gradual social change rather than government articially trying to apply social justice is the answer.

Sorry, but I don't agree. I don't think in today's world that a woman lacks that priveledge anymore. Same with blacks. To say that all white males today have undue privilegde isn't true today. It may have been true back then, but it's not nearly as true today. There is access to education for both those groups you mention, and there isn't the discrimination to hold them down like years past. Minorities are advancing up into the upper echelons of the business world and it's not because of AA: It's because they are the best people for their job. You argue something that has basically been debunked long ago in the courts, an invalid argument from days past that no longer holds true in today's society. Programs are no longer the answer, gradual social change is.You are discriminating and denying someone from succeeding solely based on their race or gender. That's just as bad as what was happening before. It creates just as much of a social stimga ("Oh look, here comes Affirmative Action" or "Oh, they only got in to fill a quota"), which prevents that social change from taking place.

Affirmative Action is not meant to help blacks because of the color of their skin, but because they deserve compensation for past and continuing injustices. The Supreme Court has said that you cannot justify AA on the basis of "Paying for the sins of one's Father". Try again.

Eh, It's easy to chalk up the Veterans advantage to the unique experiences that the military and war bring on. You can chalk that up to other things. Other than that, I don't see a problem with letting the others survive without AA. I don't see why the kids of veterans need a helping hand, and the Disabled are protected from discrimination under numerous Disabilities Acts.

Affirmative action works by determining what percentage of qualified women and minorities are available to a company, and then setting a goal for hiring that percentage. For example, suppose a minority makes up 30 percent of the local population, but only 15 percent are qualified for the company's jobs. The goal for the company is 15 percent, not 30 percent. And if the company makes a good-faith effort to reach this goal but fails, then it incurs no legal penalty -- the goal is simply reset for the next year, and the next, and the next, if need be. The courts step in with quotas only in the case of blatant discrimination against clearly qualified minorities. The thing is, even if they are quallified there may be non-minorities that are more quallified. Why should they get jipped because someone is black or female or *insert minority group here*. The entire idea of trying to hire based on demographics of population is idiotic. In the business world, the best people get hired for the job, regardless of anything else other than qualifications. Companies who discriminate on the basis of race will eventually fail to other companies who do hire more quallified minorities. Simple as that. There are fewer and fewer uses for AA. It's too big and overarching a program to fix the nuances of society today. At this point we are beyond programs and just have to wait for eventual social change to take effect.

Cancer Marney (2:14:12 PM): In that Republican wishlist thread, note the following: "Cancer Marney wants remote-controlled laser-tipped flying robot sharks." Cancer Marney (2:14:41 PM): I think it would encourage constructive debate.

Well, the thing he's wrong: Many other polls show a very large jump in the way of Hispanic voters. Like, a 7 to 8 point jump, which is insane. Blacks he got a small bump, but the Hispanic one was really well noted. It's one of the reasons he won, I'd argue.

Eh, I think that most experts agree that Bush gained a bunch in the Hispanic community this year, which is probably why he was able to secure Florida and the national vote. This guy is just trying to use one measly poll to try and discredit the big win.

Crap, what was it -- was it during that scene when he was in the bar and they showed a picture of "Dookie-kakis"... Nah. I'm actually inspired to re-watch that masterpiece to hear it. -=Mike "Do you realize that because of you, this city is overrun by baboons?" "Well, isn't that the fault of the voters?" Your love of the Naked Gun movies redeems yourself in my eyes... See, we CAN find common ground! Attempted sexual assault with a CONCRETE DILDO?!? Okay, it was from the first movie, but still pretty damn funny. The funniest part of that whole thing was the smile that developed on the Statue's face. But that is an excellent line.

Thoth is drunk off his ass. Amazing. Edit: That was the best quote I've heard in a long time.

Of course, we'll kindly ignore the blood of over 300,000 Iraqis who died between 1991-2003 because of Saddam abusing the Food-for-Oil program for all it was worth. Who is being apathetic here?

Well, the bigger part of bullshit is that if 17 is true, more people voted for a guy dubbed "one of the most conservative presidents ever". But... all in all... that list is fairly okay. I mean, it's honestly not too bad by Moore's standards. If only he could be funny and somewhat sane ALL the time.

Speculation, as was my "yes" comment. At least Dean had a fucking spine. Eh, my theory is like this: Kerry is to Dukakis as Dean is to McGovern as Edwards is to Clinton without Perot as Clark is to McClellen as Kucinich is to The Leprechaun.

Wow. Talk about crap. This is lower than your normal "Choice-Whacko Source Article". What, commondreams not have something good enough for you this time?

Yes. It's funny: Democratic candidates always show their most personality in their concession speeches. what the hell is that?

How big is your hangover?