Styles

No, I'm afraid you are. And just so you say I don't have any opinions of my own, yes I do...you're a moron. Now here's the backup for my argument! If it quacks like a duck...

INXS, you ignorant slut. Please feel free. If you want to try to back up your skewed, unfair, downright wrong and probably anti-semetic views, feel free, but I shudder at what sources you'd use. Just to clarify, I don't repost them to try to convince your braindead skull, but in case there are others less informed reading who may be swayed by your bile. This site actually uses facts and sites and crosschecks with mainstream sources and historical documents. My god, where to begin. As always brought to you from: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mftoc.html and by Snapple, mmmm its in the stuff....um... Here we go! MYTH “The United Nations unjustly partitioned Palestine.” FACT As World War II ended, the magnitude of the Holocaust became known. This accelerated demands for a resolution to the question of Palestine so the survivors of Hitler's "Final Solution" might find sanctuary in a homeland of their own. The British tried to work out an agreement acceptable to both Arabs and Jews, but their insistence on the former's approval guaranteed failure because the Arabs would not make any concessions. They subsequently turned the issue over to the UN in February 1947. The UN established a Special Commission on Palestine (UNSCOP) to devise a solution. Delegates from 11 nations* went to the area and found what had long been apparent: The conflicting national aspirations of Jews and Arabs could not be reconciled. The contrasting attitudes of the two groups "could not fail to give the impression that the Jews were imbued with the sense of right and were prepared to plead their case before any unbiased tribunal, while the Arabs felt unsure of the justice of their cause, or were afraid to bow to the judgment of the nations."1 Although most of the Commission's members acknowledged the need to find a compromise solution, it was difficult for them to envision one given the parties' intractability. At a meeting with a group of Arabs in Beirut, the Czechoslovakian member of the Commission told his audience: "I have listened to your demands and it seems to me that in your view the compromise is: We want our demands met completely, the rest can be divided among those left."2 When they returned, the delegates of seven nations — Canada, Czechoslovakia, Guatemala, The Netherlands, Peru, Sweden and Uruguay — recommended the establishment of two separate states, Jewish and Arab, to be joined by economic union, with Jerusalem an internationalized enclave. Three nations — India, Iran and Yugoslavia — recommended a unitary state with Arab and Jewish provinces. Australia abstained. The Jews of Palestine were not satisfied with the small territory allotted to them by the Commission, nor were they happy that Jerusalem was severed from the Jewish State; nevertheless, they welcomed the compromise. The Arabs rejected the UNSCOP's recommendations. The ad hoc committee of the UN General Assembly rejected the Arab demand for a unitary Arab state. The majority recommendation for partition was subsequently adopted 33-13 with 10 abstentions on November 29, 1947.3 “It is hard to see how the Arab world, still less the Arabs of Palestine, will suffer from what is mere recognition of accomplished fact — the presence in Palestine of a compact, well organized, and virtually autonomous Jewish community.” — London Times editorial4 MYTH "Israel viewed the territories it captured as conquered lands that were now part of Israel and had no intention of negotiating over their return." FACT By the end of the war, Israel had captured enough territory to more than triple the size of the area it controlled, from 8,000 to 26,000 square miles. The victory enabled Israel to unify Jerusalem. Israeli forces had also captured the Sinai, the Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. Israel's leaders fully expected to negotiate a peace agreement with their neighbors that would involve some territorial compromise. Almost immediately after the war, Israel's leaders expressed their willingness to negotiate a return of at least some of the territories. Israel subsequently returned all of the Sinai to Egypt, territory claimed by Jordan was returned to the Hashemite Kingdom, and nearly all of the Gaza Strip and more than 40 percent of the West Bank was given to the Palestinians to establish the Palestinian Authority. To date, approximately 93 percent of the territories won in the defensive war have been given by Israel to its Arab neighbors as a result of negotiations. This demonstrates Israel's willingness to trade land for peace. MYTH “Israel has been an expansionist state since its creation.” FACT Israel's boundaries were determined by the United Nations when it adopted the partition resolution in 1947. In a series of defensive wars, Israel captured additional territory. On numerous occasions, Israel has withdrawn from these areas. As part of the 1974 disengagement agreement, Israel returned territories captured in the 1967 and 1973 wars to Syria. Under the terms of the 1979 Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty, Israel withdrew from the Sinai peninsula for the third time. It had already withdrawn from large parts of the desert area it captured in its War of Independence. After capturing the entire Sinai in the 1956 Suez conflict, Israel relinquished the peninsula to Egypt a year later. In September 1983, Israel withdrew from large areas of Lebanon to positions south of the Awali River. In 1985, it completed its withdrawal from Lebanon, except for a narrow security zone just north of the Israeli border. That too was abandoned, unilaterally, in 2000. After signing peace agreements with the Palestinians, and a treaty with Jordan, Israel agreed to withdraw from most of the territory in the West Bank captured from Jordan in 1967. A small area was returned to Jordan, and more than 40 percent was ceded to the Palestinian Authority. The agreement with the Palestinians also involved Israel's withdrawal in 1994 from most of the Gaza Strip, which had been captured from Egypt in 1973. To date, Israel has withdrawn from more than 40 percent of the West Bank and approximately 80 percent of the Gaza Strip, and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered to withdraw from 95 percent of the West Bank and 100 percent of the Gaza Strip in a final settlement. In addition, Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and his successors offered to withdraw from virtually all of the Golan Heights in exchange for peace with Syria. Negotiations continue regarding the final disposition of the remaining disputed territories in Israel's possession. Israel's willingness to make territorial concessions in exchange for security proves its goal is peace, not expansion. MYTH “Israel's so-called security fence is just like the Berlin Wall.” FACT Although critics have sought to portray the security fence as a kind of "Berlin Wall," it is nothing of the sort. First, unlike the Berlin Wall, the fence does not separate one people, Germans from Germans, and deny freedom to those on one side. Israel's security fence separates two peoples, Israelis and Palestinians, and offers freedom and security for both. Second, while Israelis are fully prepared to live with Palestinians, and 20 percent of the Israeli population is already Arab, it is the Palestinians who say they do not want to live with any Jews and call for the West Bank to be judenrein. Third, the fence is not being constructed to prevent the citizens of one state from escaping; it is designed solely to keep terrorists out of Israel. Finally, of the 458 miles scheduled to be constructed, only a tiny fraction of that (less than 3% or about 15 miles) is actually a 30 foot high concrete wall, and that is being built in three areas where it will prevent Palestinian snipers from around the terrorist hotbeds of Kalkilya and Tul Karm from shooting at cars as they have done for the last three years along the Trans-Israel Highway, one of the country's main roads. The wall also takes up less space than the other barriers, only about seven feet, so it did not have a great impact on the area where it was built. Most of the barrier will be a chain-link type fence similar to those used all over the United States combined with underground and long-range sensors, unmanned aerial vehicles, trenches, landmines and guard paths. Manned checkpoints will constitute the only way to travel back and forth through the fence. The barrier is altogether about 160 feet wide in most places. Israel did not want to build a fence, and resisted doing so for more than 35 years. If anyone is to blame for the construction, it is Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and the other Palestinian terrorists. Perhaps the construction of the security fence may help stimulate the Palestinians to take action against the terrorists because the barrier has shown them there is a price to pay for sponsorsing terrorism. MYTH "The Jews created the refugee problem by expelling the Palestinians." FACT Had the Arabs accepted the 1947 UN resolution, not a single Palestinian would have become a refugee. An independent Arab state would now exist beside Israel. The responsibility for the refugee problem rests with the Arabs. The beginning of the Arab exodus can be traced to the weeks immediately following the announcement of the UN partition resolution. The first to leave were roughly 30,000 wealthy Arabs who anticipated the upcoming war and fled to neighboring Arab countries to await its end. Less affluent Arabs from the mixed cities of Palestine moved to all-Arab towns to stay with relatives or friends.6 By the end of January1948, the exodus was so alarming the Palestine Arab Higher Committee asked neighboring Arab countries to refuse visas to these refugees and to seal their borders against them.7 On January 30, 1948, the Jaffa newspaper, Ash Sha'ab, reported: "The first of our fifth-column consists of those who abandon their houses and businesses and go to live elsewhere....At the first signs of trouble they take to their heels to escape sharing the burden of struggle."8 Another Jaffa paper, As Sarih (March 30, 1948) excoriated Arab villagers near Tel Aviv for "bringing down disgrace on us all by 'abandoning the villages.'"9 Meanwhile, a leader of the Arab National Committee in Haifa, Hajj Nimer el-Khatib, said Arab soldiers in Jaffa were mistreating the residents. "They robbed individuals and homes. Life was of little value, and the honor of women was defiled. This state of affairs led many [Arab] residents to leave the city under the protection of British tanks."10 John Bagot Glubb, the commander of Jordan's Arab Legion, said: "Villages were frequently abandoned even before they were threatened by the progress of war."11 Contemporary press reports of major battles in which large numbers of Arabs fled conspicuously fail to mention any forcible expulsion by the Jewish forces. The Arabs are usually described as "fleeing" or "evacuating" their homes. While Zionists are accused of "expelling and dispossessing" the Arab inhabitants of such towns as Tiberias and Haifa, the truth is much different. Both of those cities were within the boundaries of the Jewish State under the UN partition scheme and both were fought for by Jews and Arabs alike. Jewish forces seized Tiberias on April 19, 1948, and the entire Arab population of 6,000 was evacuated under British military supervision. The Jewish Community Council issued a statement afterward: "We did not dispossess them; they themselves chose this course....Let no citizen touch their property."12 In early April, an estimated 25,000 Arabs left the Haifa area following an offensive by the irregular forces led by Fawzi al-Qawukji, and rumors that Arab air forces would soon bomb the Jewish areas around Mt. Carmel.13 On April 23, the Haganah captured Haifa. A British police report from Haifa, dated April 26, explained that "every effort is being made by the Jews to persuade the Arab populace to stay and carry on with their normal lives, to get their shops and businesses open and to be assured that their lives and interests will be safe."14 In fact, David Ben-Gurion had sent Golda Meir to Haifa to try to persuade the Arabs to stay, but she was unable to convince them because of their fear of being judged traitors to the Arab cause.15 By the end of the battle, more than 50,000 Palestinians had left. “Tens of thousands of Arab men, women and children fled toward the eastern outskirts of the city in cars, trucks, carts, and afoot in a desperate attempt to reach Arab territory until the Jews captured Rushmiya Bridge toward Samaria and Northern Palestine and cut them off. Thousands rushed every available craft, even rowboats, along the waterfront, to escape by sea toward Acre.” — New York Times, (April 23, 1948) In Tiberias and Haifa, the Haganah issued orders that none of the Arabs' possessions should be touched, and warned that anyone who violated the orders would be severely punished. Despite these efforts, all but about 5,000 or 6,000 Arabs evacuated Haifa, many leaving with the assistance of British military transports. Syria's UN delegate, Faris el-Khouri, interrupted the UN debate on Palestine to describe the seizure of Haifa as a "massacre" and said this action was "further evidence that the 'Zionist program' is to annihilate Arabs within the Jewish state if partition is effected."16 The following day, however, the British representative at the UN, Sir Alexander Cadogan, told the delegates that the fighting in Haifa had been provoked by the continuous attacks by Arabs against Jews a few days before and that reports of massacres and deportations were erroneous.17 The same day (April 23, 1948), Jamal Husseini, the chairman of the Palestine Higher Committee, told the UN Security Council that instead of accepting the Haganah's truce offer, the Arabs "preferred to abandon their homes, their belongings, and everything they possessed in the world and leave the town."18 The U.S. Consul-General in Haifa, Aubrey Lippincott, wrote on April 22, 1948, for example, that "local mufti-dominated Arab leaders" were urging "all Arabs to leave the city, and large numbers did so."19 An army order issued July 6, 1948, made clear that Arab towns and villages were not to be demolished or burned, and that Arab inhabitants were not to be expelled from their homes.20 The Haganah did employ psychological warfare to encourage the Arabs to abandon a few villages. Yigal Allon, the commander of the Palmach (the "shock force of the Haganah"), said he had Jews talk to the Arabs in neighboring villages and tell them a large Jewish force was in Galilee with the intention of burning all the Arab villages in the Lake Hula region. The Arabs were told to leave while they still had time and, according to Allon, they did exactly that.21 In the most dramatic example, in the Ramle-Lod area, Israeli troops seeking to protect their flanks and relieve the pressure on besieged Jerusalem, forced a portion of the Arab population to go to an area a few miles away that was occupied by the Arab Legion. "The two towns had served as bases for Arab irregular units, which had frequently attacked Jewish convoys and nearby settlements, effectively barring the main road to Jerusalem to Jewish traffic."22 As was clear from the descriptions of what took place in the cities with the largest Arab populations, these cases were clearly the exceptions, accounting for only a small fraction of the Palestinian refugees. MYTH “The intifada was a spontaneous uprising, resulting solely from Arab anger at Israeli atrocities.” FACT False charges of Israeli atrocities and instigation from the Muslim clergy in the mosques played an important role in starting the intifada (popularly translated as "uprising," but literally means "shaking off"). On December 6, 1987, an Israeli was stabbed to death while shopping in Gaza. One day later, four residents of the Jabalya refugee camp in Gaza were killed in a traffic accident. Rumors that the four had been killed by Israelis as a deliberate act of revenge began to spread among the Palestinians.1 Mass rioting broke out in Jabalya on the morning of December 9, during which a 17-year-old youth was killed by an Israeli soldier after throwing a Molotov cocktail at an army patrol.2 This soon sparked a wave of unrest that engulfed the West Bank, Gaza and Jerusalem. MYTH “Violence is an understandable and legitimate reaction to Israel's policies.” FACT The basis of the peace process is that disputes should be resolved through negotiations. One of the conditions Israel set before agreeing to negotiate with the PLO was that the organization renounce terrorism. It formally did so; however, the PLO and other Palestinian groups and individuals have consistently resorted to violence since the Oslo process began in 1993. Whether or not Israel made concessions, Palestinians have still committed heinous attacks. In some instances atrocities are perpetrated because of alleged mistreatment; in other cases, they are deliberate efforts to sabotage negotiations. Regardless, the Palestinian Authority, which has a nearly 40,000-person police force (larger than allowed under the peace agreements), and multiple intelligence agencies, must be held responsible for keeping the peace. Israeli Civilians and IDF Forces Killed in “Al-Aksa Intifida”23 (Sept. 29, 2000 - September 13, 2004) Israeli Civilians Security Forces Total Rocks 2 0 2 Stabbing 6 0 6 Running Over 1 7 8 Lynching 17 2 19 Shooting 98 107 205 Drive-By Shooting 28 9 37 Shooting at Vehicle from an Ambush 69 13 82 Shootings at Towns and Villages 16 6 22 Shootings at Military Installations 0 26 26 Bombings 24 38 62 Suicide Bombings 397 48 445 Car Bombs 15 23 38 Mortar Bombs 3 1 4 Anti-Tank Missiles 0 11 11 Other 1 4 5 Total 677 295 972 MYTH “Palestinians attack Israeli forces in spontaneous outbursts of frustration.” FACT Occasionally, Palestinians riot spontaneously for any number of reasons, from frustration to anger. More often, however, Palestinian violence is premeditated and planned by either terrorist cells within the Palestinian Authority or by the PA's own leaders. In the summer of 2001, for example, Palestinian commanders circulated instructions on confronting Israeli troops. The orders included the preparation of Molotov cocktails, hand grenades and barricades. Explosive "belts" were to be prepared for "hundreds of suicide youths who will be willing to confront the advancing troops." The insturctions also suggested conserving ammunition and attacking tanks only with "suitable weapons" and not with light guns. "Forward positions should be established by fighters willing to sacrifice their lives to stop the advancing enemy."46 “Israel is at war with an enemy that declines, in its shrewdness and its cowardice, to fight Israel's soldiers, but is instead murdering its civilians, its women and children.” — Michael Kelly4 MYTH “Palestinians do not encourage children to engage in terror.” FACT Most Palestinians who adopt terror in the hope of either “ending the occupation” or destroying Israel do so because they freely choose murder over any other option. Palestinian terrorists also use children, however, to do their dirty work. On March 15, 2004, for example, Israeli security forces caught an 11-year-old boy attempting to smuggle a bomb through a roadblock. The boy was promised a large sum of money by Tanzim activists in Nablus if he delivered a bag containing a bomb stuffed with bolts to a woman on the other side of the checkpoint. If the boy was stopped and searched, the terrorists who sent him planned to use a cell phone to immediately detonate the 15 to 22 pounds of explosives he was carrying, murdering nearby soldiers as well as the boy. The plan was foiled by an alert Israeli soldier, and the bomb apparently malfunctioned when the terrorists tried to remotely detonate it. A week later, on March 24, 2004, a 14-year-old Palestinian child was found to be carrying explosives when attempting to pass through the Israeli army checkpoint at Huwara, at the entrance of the town of Nablus.86 These were just the latest examples of the cynical use of children by Palestinians waging war on Israel. Young Palestinians are routinely indoctrinated and coerced into the cult of martyrdom. “Using children to carry out or assist in armed attacks of any kind is an abomination. We call on the Palestinian leadership to publicly denounce these practices.” — Amnesty International87 Despite occasional claims that terror is only promoted by “extremists,” the truth is the Palestinian Authority (PA) has consistently incited its youth to violence. Children are taught that the greatest glory is to die for Allah in battle as a Shahada. The PA regularly broadcasts television shows that encourage children to embrace this concept. One film uses the death of Muhammad Al-Dura, the child killed in the crossfire of a shootout between Palestinian gunmen and Israeli forces, to show that life after death is paradise. An actor playing Al-Dura is shown in an amusement park, playing on the beach, and flying a kite. The Al-Dura in the film invites viewers to follow him. Similar messages extolling the virtue of the Shahid can be found in school textbooks and sermons by Muslim clergy.88 The indoctrination is having an impact. According to one Palestinian newspaper, 79-80% of children told pollsters they were willing to be Shahids.89 Palestinian children now play death games, competing to see who will be the Shahid. They also collect “terrorist cards” the way American kids collect baseball cards. The maker of the Palestinian cards sold 6 million in just over two years. “I take hundreds of these pictures from children every day and burn them,” said Saher Hindi, a teacher at a Nablus elementary school. “They turn children into extremists.”90 Many Palestinian youngsters have gone from pretending to carrying out actual terrorist attacks. More than two dozen suicide bombers have been under the age of 18. Since 2001, more than 40 other minors involved in planning suicide bombings were arrested. In the last three years, 22 shootings and bombings have been carried out by minors. For example, teens ages 11-14 attempted to smuggle munitions from Egypt into the Gaza Strip; three teenagers, ages 13-15, were arrested on their way to carry out a shooting attack in Afula; and a 17-year-old blew himself up in an attempted suicide attack.91 The situation has finally gotten so out of hand that Palestinian families are starting to protest. The mother of one of the three teenagers sent to carry out the Afula attack said of the letter he had left behind, “My son doesn’t know how to write a letter like that and has never belonged to one of the organizations. Some grownup wrote the letter for him.” The boy’s father added, “Nobody can accept to send his children to be slaughtered. I am sure that whoever recruits children in this kind of unlawful activity will not recruit his own children.”92 “As one of the Islamic fanatics who inspired al-Qaida said: ‘We are not trying to negotiate with you. We are trying to destroy you.’...They wish to destroy the whole basis of Western society — secular democracy, individual liberty, equality before the law, toleration and pluralism — and replace it with a theocracy based on a perverted and dogmatic interpretation of the Koran....The idea that we should try to appease the terrorists is wrong in every respect. It would not protect us, for nothing acts as a greater incentive to terrorists than the realization that their target is weak and frightened. And it would only weaken the institutions we are trying to protect, and demonstrate to the terrorists that we are — as they frequently allege — too decadent and craven to defend the way of life to which we claim to be attached.” — London Daily Telegraph93

I was thinking the same thing. Without that hippie "MYTH JEWZ R GR8" gimmick, Slapnuts would fade into oblivion. Is that all I am to you? What about my funny picture stories?

It's ok, Bob. I think we all learned a valuable lesson today. Now, seriously how about that Kangaroo Court idea? Before we decide to ban anyone here we could put them on "trial". Dr. Tom of course gets first dibs on judge. I would expect a high position for coming up with the concept....AMikeSC of course would be lead prosecutor, kkktookmybabyaway could be uh...court jester or something...

INXS's lack of any historical knowledge to go along with his lack of common sense is astounding. Pretty much the whole reason Iraq is such a mess is because it was a 20th century creation. It's made up of 3 distinct nations that were partioned as a British mandate...

He didn't even give proper credit. He didn't write that. It's from this site: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mftoc.html, I found it a while back when doing a search to argue a point about Israel, and bookmarked it because it had such a vast resource, and made a habit of posting different "myths" depending on the argument. Bob is just trying to get in on the action too..

Well, if THE AYATOLLAH says we're wrong...

Bob, I'm sending you a cease and desist. If you do not comply wihtout prior consent for violating my copywrites, I will send you to TSM Kangaroo Court (which would be a kick ass idea, I think). Anyway, I've wanted to say it for a while, so I will: INXS, you ignorant slut! I don't see a problem here. It was a regretable mistake. Israel is a little jumpy being that, oh, all the surrounding nations are always plotting attacks on their boarders. PM Sharon apologised swiftly to President Mubarak, admitted it was a mistake and there will likely be an investigation. I would make a comparison about how they operate much like the US does when unfortunate errors occur, but then again we're the real terrorists according to you, so I won't bother.

That's awesome, thanks for the heads up. They showed UFC 48 last month.

Agreed. Back to PETA, does anyone actually LIKE these clowns? They are such an insult to real groups fighting the cruelty of animals. You know, the groups that actually give a damn and aren't a bunch of stuck up losers. Kamui liked PETA. I can't seem to find that thread though. We should have created an archive of every Kamui thread...

Surely you are not insinuating that INXS and hunger4unger are in fact one in the same!?

He doesn't like you.

A 13 year old kid walked up to me today and asked me if it was ok to play violent video games.... I've failed again, haven't I, kkktookmybabyaway?

Chris Matthews: How about it, Rebecca DeWitt? Should we be throwing genie-portrayed basketball players in jail? Rebecca DeWitt: Chris, every society needs police. But who will police the police? My idea: terrorists! Give the terorists guns and badges, and the ability to arrest law enforcement and military personnel. That way, there are checks and balances. Chris Matthews: Dear Lord. Belefonte! Hit me with a quick one! Harry Belefonte: The war in Iraq is in a minstrel show! Chris Matthews: Fantastic! Another! Harry Belefonte: Winston Churchill was a house Negro! Chris Matthews: One more time! Harry Belefonte: Poodles are the black man of the dog world! Chris Matthews: Whoa-oa! [ laughs uproariously ] I'm never gonna get tired of this! Ah, right it was Belafante. Thought it was Sharpton, thanks.

!!!!!!!!!!YES!!!!!!!!!! Seriously, that sums up how every AMERICAN should feel right there. tear I feel so...American. intensifier, since you seem to be new to the board, let me give you a little briefing. INXS (renamed #1 Dubya Disciple since he lost a bet with me over the election) and C-Bacon, are both insane. Not just liberal, we have our share of normal, rational thinking dissenters from that side of the spectrum here who have some intelligence and human decency and can argue their side like, non-insane persons. These 2 are not of that breed. So don't take them too seriously, just heartily laugh at them like the rest, and if you're in the mood try refuting their arguments and wait for the next outrageous opinion from them to be posted.

The stupidity level from INXS has reached a baffling high in this thread. I can't stop laughing, from claiming he'd join the insurgency, to explaining how stringing up bodies is part of Arab culture, to championing Saddam for women's rights to claiming how Iraqis had the right to vote, I don't know when he'll stop topping himself. It reminds me of the SNL skit from a year or so ago where "Al Sharpton" was on Hardball saying all these outrageous conspiracy and race baiting things, and "Chris Mathews" just kept laughing and going "this guy is great, gimme another, c'mon say something else outrageous". Cerebus, powerplay, et. all, good luck, but really, what's the point? C-Bacon has been just as moronic just without the brazenly ignorant style of INXS...

And the knife is now fully in. Oh well, good for Vlad I guess. Nice to see Miggy at 5th which is where I thought he'd be. He stats this year were even better than his MVP year in 02, so if our team was better he might have had a chance. Mora should have been higher, I would have had him above Irod at 9th.

It's just a fact, 27-33 is prime, then you decline. Uh, woops, wrong thread... Abortions should not be made illegal in case of emergencies, but there better be a damn good reason to get one, and it better be done early. That's my only opinion on the matter.

I will give our soliders the benefit of the doubt. They are in a warzone and should be allowed to defend themselves however they see fit. When the enemy fights a guerilla war, we shouldn't have to put our own soldiers at risk. Either both sides play fair, or the gloves should come off. This wasn't just an innocent bystander shot. He was shooting from a mosque. He deserves what he got.

And she speaks so well!

If ya smell what the teke is cookin' ...btw the agreement was avatars stay up until Jan 1st.

1. Carlos Beltran-Yankees 2. Adrian Beltre-Angels 3. Brad Radke-Twins 4. Edgar Renteria-Red Sox 5. Pedro Martinez-Red Sox 6. Carlos Delgado-Orioles 7. Magglio Ordonez-Orioles 8. Jason Varitek-Red Sox 9. Carl Pavano-Orioles 10. Richie Sexson-Mariners 11. J.D. Drew-Braves 12. Nomar Garciaparra-Cubs 13. Troy Glaus-Mets 14. Armando Benitez-White Sox 15. Odalis Perez-Phillies 16. Troy Percival-Indians 17. Matt Clement-Yankees 18. Orlando Cabrera-Cardinals 19. Jeff Kent-Yankees 20. Moises Alou-White Sox And for bonus points, here are five players frequently mentioned in trade talks. Are they traded, and if so, where? 1. Sammy Sosa-no. 2. Randy Johnson-yes, Yankees. 3. Kevin Brown-yes, Diamondbacks 4. Charles Johnson-yes, Mets 5. Jose Guillen-yes, Tigers Finally, does Roger Clemens retire? No, resigns with Astros.

What happened to INXS's avatar? That was the whole point of the bet?

Awesome, I didn't even know he was considering though.

Mikey takes his with several ounces of salt... cough ....we've got more kkktookmybabyaway coming folks....please don't leave...