Styles

Well, you know you just can't trust THOSE people....

You mean, Sting?

Oh, so Czech started it. The irony...ok.

oh. ok.

This is...troubling...

OK, I was thinking of the former POTUS, and was thinking WTF?

What? Truman died in '72 from heart failure.

It was very close. Participation of Eligible Voters: 53.6%

Man, that'd be HOT.

Quick summaries of both guys points: Bush believes we’re on the right track, that it was important for the War on Terror to remove Saddam and democratize Iraq. It’s hard work but he knows what he’s doing. He doesn’t believe Kerry posseses the trait of a Commander in Chief because he demoralizes our troops and alienates our allies when he calls Iraq “the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time.” (Great Bush line on how Kerry would get more countries to help: “Please join us in a grand diversion.”) He also believes Kerry *GASP~!* is indecisive and changes his positions to the whims of other nations. Bush says he has convictions which he will not wilt from. Bush also uses Kerry’s own quotes in support of the Iraq war against him, by cleverly saying he doesn’t believe Kerry mislead the public by calling Saddam a threat. Furthermore, he believes the key to North Korea is to continue the 6 party talks and not to alienate China from the process. He’s clear that the army will be all volunteer (in response to a Kerry draft cheapshot), and says the troops will come home when the job is done. His delivery was weak though as he seemed lost at times pausing and stammering and sometimes got repeptitive. Kerry believes Iraq has been totally screwed up and doesn’t think Bush did enough to bring more allies along and cites the US as 90% of losses and costs for the war. He questioned why a tax cut for the rich was more important than our security (I didn’t get that one), and made numerous references to JFK and Ronald Reagan to dry to draw comparisons (WTF?) Bush mislead the American public and believes we should have been concentrating our resources on Osama Bin Laden, not Iraq. He made a comparison to FDR attacking Mexico in response to Pearl Harbor. He made at least 7 or 8 references to his time in combat (I’m shocked, I know, yet I don’t think he ever used the “V” word) which means he knows what its like for the troops, and says his plan would bring them home in 6 months. On North Korea he believes we need to go back to bilateral talks with Kim Jung Il and believes nuclear proliferation is the biggest threat to the US, and we should stop producing our own nuclear weapons as an example to the world…yet we should give Iran nuclear energy to discourage them from making nuclear weapons. Kerry’s delivery was his strong point. He looked and spoke with confidence and rarely ever stammered or seemed lost, and surprisingly stayed within the time better than Bush. Hopefully that about sums it up. Clearly watching the debate Kerry presented himself better and wins on style, but if you actually examine the content of the debate, Bush nailed all his points, while Kerry either didn’t offer solutions or offered really BAD ones. I hope the content is stressed in the media…

Another solid Bush quote was when Kerry tried to nail him on some of his social positions (which was out of line since this isn't the debate for that) and Bush answered that one thing he won't do is waiver from his core convictions and doesn't wilt under pressure. And then Kerry responding "Ive never wilted" which just sounded odd...

Interesting point I noticed was Kerry mentioning the possibility of a draft because of the stretched troops, and Bush responsing by slowly and clearly saying "all volunteer army". Kerry should really stop with such an unsubstantiated scare tactic. Kerry continuing to talk about how consistent he is was absolutely ridiculous, especially when Bush responded with exact Kerry quotes with dates that contradict himself. After Kerry pushed the whole more allies helping in Iraq issue, I thought Bush did a good job pointing out how disengenuous it was to call the war the wrong war and a diversion, and then expect more countries to help on that premise, and furthermore insulting our current allies like Australia and Allawi. Anyway it was interesting also that Bush made a point that Iraq could have been a threat to Israel, and then later on Kerry just slipped in "Israel" in some answer as if to say "me too". You know, its VERY interesting, that while watching the debate, I was focused on Bush's mannerisms and vocalics, which I felt brought him down, and made it a tie, yet after, when I think back about the CONTENT of the message I can remember a lot of Bush's good responses, but honestly Kerry's performance was completely unmemorable. I don't remember any points where I felt he really made his case. It will be interesting to see if Americans pay more attention to style or substance...unfortunately we know what the answer to that has been in the past.

http://www.foxnews.com/ has a video of the debate and a transcript avaliable for free.

My brief thoughts are that it was a tie. Neither guy really ran away with it like they could of. Bush's strengths were that he seemed less memorized and more from the heart than Kerry, and did a good job reiterating his positions and avoided some really loaded questions His weaknesses were his style of answering made him seem unsure or unprepared, in the pauses and stuttering. His closing statement was excellent though. Kerry's strengths were that he looked very confident, he spoke without the pauses and akwardness of Bush and kept Bush on the defensive with some direct shots. His weakness was all style and no substance. He was quick to criticize Bush, but never really explained his own plans for things. What he did explain was either unrealistic and just plain wrong. Bush didn't lose any ground from this debate since he basically stayed the course. Kerry probably was helped, because his campaign was suffering and a strong showing should help rally his base, making this thing a lot closer than it was before.

Sadly, this isn't likely to change Do you know how impressive it is to have the stupidest post in a thread that includes INXS?

Trying to avoid work, eh, hippie? with apologies to kkktookmybabyaway

The ladies are cursed. That's bad. But they come with your free choice of topping! That's good. Anyway, no there should be NO negotiating with terrorists, and we sure as hell should not be funding them. 2 people are safe, but that 1 million could fund the death of untold hundreds others...

Iraq War: For. Although the execution has been far from perfect, it was right thing to do and the situation will only approve. Big Gov't/Small Gov't: Small, although I'm not against social programs, I believe the beauracracy should be kept efficient. War on drugs: I don't know if I support a "war" on drugs, but I oppose legalisation. Would be open to medical use, with state medical approval. Abortion: As Clinton said, it should be safe, rare and legal. Against partial term, though unless mother's health is at risk. Gay marriage: Not for or against. More open to civil unions. Would like to see proper procedure followed though and respect for state laws. Social programs: There should be choices. In regards to social security and medicaire, the choice of privatization by choice should be considered. Taxes: Should be kept as low as possible. If you pay taxes, you should get a refund. Would support a gradually increasing sort of-flat tax. Pledge: Under God should be kept as it is a traditional and symbolic phrase in America. If it is changed it must be through proper procedure. Guns: Support 2nd amendment right to own a gun, but feel both background checks, registering, etc. as well as maximum penalties must be enforced to keep us safe. Do not see the need for automatic weapons in civil society. Affirmative action: Against quotas in the workplace and school. Affirmative action that provides aid or merit based scholarship is fine, but there should be no obligation to have "x" amount of people of a certain race. The courts: Tort reform, medical malpracitce suit liability and maximum claims are imperative to the future of the field of medicine for the sake of doctors and patients who the high premiums are passed on to. Death penalty: Pro. Some criminals simply don't deserve to live. Process should be made more efficient and less slow. Teaching practical sex-ed: By a certain age, sex-ed is appropriate in schools. Abstenence should be stressed as the ideal philosophy, but contraceptive knowledge should be taught. Across borders racial profiling: Neccesarry, as much as it might not be PC. If someone seems suspicious, there is nothing wrong with checking them out. If they're rational, and not inconvenianced greatly, they'll understand. Medical Care: Should be a choice. Those who wish to pay higher taxes can be guarenteed government care, but do not get the benfit of their own specialists, and must submit that certain rare procedures and transplants simply may not be covered for the system to work. Conversely, one should be able to lower their taxes, be excluded from the government program, and pay for their own private care, which means ineviteble, the rich may have access to certain life saving procedures that the poor will not. Unfortunately, that's life. Bush: Misunderstood. Driven, honest and determined. Kerry: A weak candidate. Indecisive and bland.

Oh jesus, the draft talk is the biggest scare tactic I've ever heard. I've been helping volunteer for some local Republican campaigns through school and as I was leaving a meeting with a couple of people, these middle aged Kerry-Edwards supporters (you could tell because they had shirts and signs and everything) noticed us and started rabidly screaming at us about how we're all going to Iraq to die and we're coming home in bodybags. "Nice scare tactics. Way to support the troops." was our calm response. That just seemed to make them madder as they started screaming something about universal healthcare as we entered our car. It was funny shit though to watch these adults act like such immmature babies throwing a tantrum though. I've posted it before but its been updated. Please read this article, lengthy but very informative about the "possibility" of a draft returning: http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/wars/a/draft.htm As for disputing F9/11. www.bowlingfortruth.com the same site that broke down all the inaccuricies in Bowling for Columnbine has started to do the same for F9/11. The best part is you can download the first 14 minutes of the movie with fact corrections superimposed over the screen. Highly reccomend this one, and would love to see it for the whole movie (which beyond this Ive never seen).

wait... As for me, just Slapnuts! Jeff Jarrett, God Slapnuts00

Good for Bret. I'm glad he's recovered from his stroke and has found a new hobby that allows him to perform without having to sell out his integrity and health to the wrestling business like so many others have.

Not really, he's obviously an Uncle Tom white sellout like Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, and any other black man or woman who isn't a Democrat....

Was this bump really neccesarry?