KTID

I absolutely despise The Streets. What makes it even worse is that at the T In The Park festival last year, my friends made me miss The Charlatans in order to see The fookin' Streets!!

Mike, no offence my boy, but your blind RVD hatred means that you are unable to discuss this rationally and should probably give up. Also, I hope you noted that I have yet to post in this thread because I realise that I (much like you) will never be impartial when discussing RVD, and so my opinion will never be taken seriously.

Is this how low standards are in WWE these days? **-*** star matches being called "very good"?

Pull your head out of your ass and realize what you just said. No one has been able to carry Jones or Morgan to watchable matches. Jarrett, Benoit and countless others haven't gotten Jones over *1/2. Well ok, maybe those two are simply "uncarryable". But they were just examples. The point is that Angle has never carried an absolute slug to a match where you think "that match was remarkably good considering (wrestler A) was in it, much better than any of (wrestler A)'s other matches". As far as examples of this, the likes Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart memorably had watchable, and occasionally good, matches with the slugs that populated the then-WWF in the mid-90's.

Right. By definition, to "over-rate" someone/something is to rate it as better than it actually is in reality. Kurt Angle has been rated by a number of people, particularly posters on this board, as a world-class worker and/or one of the greatest workers of all-time. Since he doesn't fit the criteria for this rating then he is "over-rated" by those who rate him as such. He fails to meet said criteria because; 1) He has only ever worked one style of wrestling (the "WWE style", which is one of the worst, most basic and most limited styles of wrestling ever). 2) The number of "great"/"world-class" (ie ****1/2+) matches he has ever been a part of can be counted on one hand. 3) He has never had a match of the aforementioned quality that was a singles matches not against a world-class worker (eg. Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero etc.). 4) When in the position of "carrying" a match against a poor/inexperienced worker (not the likes of The Big Show but rather the likes of Nathan Jones, Matt Morgan etc.), he hasn't done a memorable "carry job" in having remarkably good/entertaining matches (eg. Shawn Michaels having a good match with an absolute slug in Sid).

I agree x 10

*starts "anglesault is a testicle" chant*

God, the stupidity of the WWE marks gets more ridiculous by the minute.

*bangs head against wall* This is without a doubt *the* most annoying thing about this board. People who say "stop trolling" to anyone who disagrees with them. It isn't "trolling", it's called "discussing" and it is the whole reason why we're here. Sorry for getting off-topic, but I just had to get that off my chest.

Would this include Peter Canero? *prays*

Sorry, but why was the man banned? For thinking Dawn Marie's hot? By gawd we are getting strict.

eh?

RickyB, thank you for actually taking the time to reply to my points, as opposed to other peoples "SHUT UP! YOU'RE A MORON!!" replys. You made same good points, some I agree with and some I still disagree with. However, like you said, we should just agree to disagree on some points.

First of all, letting everyone on the board have an opinion *IS* incredibly important. Also, personal insults like "fucking retard" really ruin the credibilty of your arguments. Just so you know, i've seen nearly all WWF/WWE PPV's, unfortunately. Your seriously missing my point here. I never said that this weeks Benoit/Michaels match was one of the best matches ever, just that it was an example of how good WWE matches are on a regular basis these days. As for Savage/Steamboat, yes it was a good match, but its only one match. Its greatness is exaggerated because it was the only "workrate" match of the 80's in this company. If it took place today, it wouldn't stand out. How could I have missed "all of those Classic Tag Matches"? Perhaps they never happened? The closest the WWF had to "classic" tag team matches in the 80's was the Hart Foundation/British Bulldogs series in '87. Apart from that, the tag division stunk as well. Eh, i'll ignore this. You seem to have forgotten what it is you are trying to argue. *And in case you aren't aware, the Midnight Express and the Rock 'N' Roll Express worked for Jim Crockett for the majority of their careers, they never worked for Vince McMahon. Their legendary tag team fued which spanned the majority of the 1980's was just one of the major reasons why fans of good wrestling like myself preferred the NWA/WCW to the WWF during the 1980's/early '90s.* Again, this point is quite hard to comprehend. Please correct me if i'm wrong, but I think your saying that I am only looking at main events during this period. If so, you are correct to a certain extent. The main events are, excuse the pun, the main matches. They are the ones that matter, are built up, have a purpose and will be remembered. I don't remember every single meaningless mid-card match from every PPV. I do remember almost all main events, as they are the matches that the shows are built around, and were almost always unwatchable. They are the matches being showcased, which is my point. I agree that the WWF in the 80's had some guys who were good workers, say Curt Hennig for example. However, he was never showcased. If a PPV is advertised as "HULK HOGAN V EARTHQUAKE" then all i know is that the main showcased match (the supposed highlight of the show) features two poor workers. How do I know that a good worker (Curt Hennig) will be wrestling in the second match of the eleven-match card. The good worker, and his matches, weren't showcased. Again, it wasn't that "people with WORKRATE~!" hadn't arrived yet. They had the Bret Harts and Curt Hennigs, they were just never showcased until this time. Like you said, Bret Hart was beggining to receive a singles push which would see him become world champion a year later. This was one of the first examples of good wrestlers being showcased. Bret would never have been pushed like this in 1987, would he? *I'm unsure as to what point you were attempting to make with "Flair was World Champion in 1991". Firstly, Flair was never world champion in 1991. He was indeed world champion for a whopping two months in 1992, however. Now as you all know, i'm not a fan of Ric Flair's work, so i'm not going to cry about his misuse during his WWF tenure.* Have to say you've lost me again. Are you saying that the people who enjoy good workrate-heavy matches only watch for "high flying shit and stupid moves"? That makes no sense. My favourite style/era of wrestling is the New Japan Junior Heavyweight division of the mid '90s, such as Jushin Lyger. Most people on here favour All Japan Heavyweights of the '90s, such as Mitsuhara Misawa. Do we watch for "high flying shit and stupid moves"? No, we watch for good matches. And what kind of story is told by two big guys, with a combined repitoire of 3 moves, slugging it out. You want a match that "TOLD A STORY through the matches" then '80s WWF is *not* the place to find it. Well, now you know I did watch during that time period and am not merely blindly knocking it. The then-WWF product in the 1980's was simply sub-par workrate wise.

You must have some small hands, JoeDirt.

Now thats the first sign of an answer i've actually received. So everyones just "having their fun". I assume you mean that the shows hold nostalgic value for you which outweighs the poor workrate contained therein. If so, and you are willing to pay the equivalent of £15.99 for every one of these releases, then good for you.

Yes, because Duke the Dumpster Drose, the Goon, Max Moon, T.L. Hopper and Issac Yankem were so much more realistic than Hulk Hogan or the Ultimate Warrior. And boy, remember that classic workrate they brought with them, too? Man, those were some good times. I said that during this period we saw the introduction of "any semblence of workrate". I never claimed that the entire promotion did a u-turn and removed all cartoonish gimmicks.

Why on earth would you do a thing like that? You're right it should be 5 matches Am I the only one who thinks this is the greatest set of matches ever...........better than HHH vs Foley better than HHH vs HBK better than Flair vs Steamboat! Eh, yes. Yes you are.

erm, excuse me, why the need for insults? I asked why you guys are getting excited about these releases and instead of answering you just say that its "big boy stuff". What on earth does that mean? Please answer without insults next time though. Why don't i like the shows? Do you actually like them? I mean it's commonly accepted that the then-WWF product was dire in the early "McMahon Jr." era of cartoonish characters and little-to-no workrate to speak of. It wasn't until about 1993/94 that the Hogans and Warriors were phased out and the Bret Harts and Shawn Michaels' were showcased that any semblence of workrate entered the promotion. As much as we tend to complain about the product these days it is often worth remembering how bad it used to be. Take, for example, the main event of this past week's RAW between Chris Benoit and Shawn Michaels, or the WrestleMania or Backlash main event triple threat matches. These are just a few examples of recent WWE matches that were good-excellent matches. Matches of this quality are now commonplace on PPV, and occasionally RAW/Smackdown! main events. Now, did you see a match of this quality in the WWF between 1983 and 1993? No, of course you didn't. I wasn't specifically saying that I disliked these particular shows, just that the product in general at that time was incredibly poor.

I'm struggling to understand why you're all so bothered about the release of these shows of dvd. I mean they were awful shows that would be simply painfull to watch now. The only reason the WWE is releasing these "classic" dvds is simply to demonstrate how superior the product is now as compared to back in those days.

Why on earth would you do a thing like that?

Well, lets be honest, Rob Van Dam's no mere mortal now, is he?

Have any of you ever tried to play golf? I have several times and BUGGER ME is it hard. I just can't do it.

erm, then you should have voted "Rock/Indie (all types)".

Enough rap discussion, time for some "get duck420 banned" discussion!!!