KTID

I agree completely that Shawn Michaels doesn't deserve to be on a list of the 10 greatest wrestlers ever. But for that matter, neither does Bret Hart or Ric Flair. I just wanted to include the best US wrestlers as well as the best Japanese wrestlers, so that even those who don't know who any of the Japanese guys are can still vote on the best of who they've seen.

amazingly

The main event of which featured Kevin Nash v BUFF BAGWELL

RVD.

I'm starting to wonder if this guy even watches wrestling.

How can anyone claim Goldberg was booked badly. He just IS bad, no amount of booking could cover that.

MONSTER PUSH??!! WTF!!! He's beaten Maven and Tommy Dreamer, and been made to look like HHH's man-servant. I hate him as much as everybody else, but come on, he's received a mild, at best, push.

Woooooooo.....You go girlfriend!!!! erm, i mean good work, carry on.

By this logic, Billy Gunn and Albert should also dissappear.

Good to see all these arguments against what I said about RVD.

Brock's had more good matches this year then RVD has had in his career (of course, that equals about 2). Listen son, as I said in the other thread (which, may I point out, anyone is yet to argue with):

I am in the mood for quotes because: I was burned and severely scarred in a childhood fire, started by my elder brother, which killed my parents. I was taken care of for the past 25 years by a man claiming to be my father. He told me i'd never again hear quotes, because I was hideous and everyone would laught at me. Thus, when I miraculously recovered from the burns, I searched long and hard for quotes. I told you not to ask!!!

100) Bobby Heenan commenting on Hoagan's entrance music Heenan: That's my second favorite song. Monsoon: I'm almost afraid to ask. Whats your favorite? Heenan: All the rest are tied. 99) "Who's that, the windbreaker?" -- Paul E. commenting on Firebreaker Chip of the Patriots. 98) "ohhh yeah, dig it!" -- Randy Savage 97) "He's going to audition for the Vienna Boys' Choir!" -- Gorilla Monsoon 96) Jesse Ventura commenting on Uncle Elmer kissing his wife: "They look like to carp going after the same piece of corn." 95) Ricky Rice commenting on his 1989 heel change: "It's just like Eddie Sharkey told me along time ago...GET THE MONEY!" 94) "Who dat dere's gunna beat dat team? Who Dat? Who dat?" -- "Dirty" Dick Murdoch on teaming with Bill Watts & Jim Duggan 93) Bobby Heenan on some Jobber: "I once asked him what came at the end of the sentance... and he said "parole"." 92) "He looks like something that fell out of a deck of cards!" -- Bobby Heenan on Oliver Humperdink 91) "NO NO NO!! FIVE! FIVE!" -- King Kong Bundy 90) "Dusty Rhodes wouldn't win a body building contest for best abs, MacMahon, he'd win for MOST abs."-- Jesse Ventura 89) Paul E. commenting on War Games: "This is more dangerous than double dating with Danny Bonaduce on the Kennedy compound." 88) Gorilla & Bobby on the Rosatti sisters: Brain: "I looked it up. You know what Rosatti means in Italian?" Gorilla: "Sure. It means red, rich, full..." Brian: Nope...it means lard. 87) "The Bushwhackers are living proof that the Three Stooges had children" -- Gorilla Monsoon 86) Bobby H. on the Ultimate Warrior: "This guy makes coffee nervous." 85) "Do you have any bald ice cream?" -- Bobby H. 84) "I can beat anyone, either male, female, animal, vegitable, or mineral." -- Jim Cornette 83) "Jimmy Snuka stood up, 25 feet in the air, drove his knee through my ribs, but did I allow them to carry me out on a strecher? NO! I got right up and walked out!" -- Don Muraco after Backlund announced he wouldn't wrestle the Iron Sheik due to injuries. 82) "Gene Mean, look at our body. Cameraman, zoom!" -- Iron Sheik 81) "I wanted to have a Vanna White look alike contest here, the only problem was, most of the girls who showed up look like Betty White." -- Scotty "The Body" Anthony 80) Gorilla Monsoon commenting on Nick Volkoff's singing: "If you hung him for being a good singer, you'd be hanging an innocent man!" 79) Stan Lane introducing Jim Cornette: "Ladies & Gentelman, the man who tought Pee Wee Herman everything he knows, Jim Cornette!" 78) Jim Cornette introducing Stan Lane: "Ladies & Gentelman, the man who tought William Kennedy Smith everything he knows about dating, Sweet Stan Lane!" 77) Bobby H. on the Rosatti sisters: "I see the rodeo's in town again." 76) "Hey! Everyone look at me! I'm the BAD guy" -- The Dimond Studd 75) "I'm going to give Abdulla (The Butcher) a BIG Cactus Jack hug right now!" -- Cactus Jack 74) "Hollywood Joohn Tatum? He does at least 6,000 sit ups and 10,000 pushups a day! -- Scotty Anthony" 73) "Mucken Singh works VERY hard on his brawler's physique!" -- Scott Anthony 72) "The Patriot wears that mask EVERYWHERE! Even in the shower!" -- GWF announcer Anderson 71) I'm so quick,m Icould spit in the wind, duck, and let it hit the old ladie behind me!" -- "Rowdy" Roddy Piper 70) Bobby H on the Rossati sisters: "The only thing they recognize is a buffet" 69) "I'm just like a giant candy cane, the ladies want to lick me all over." -- Scotty Anthony 68) "Whatcha gunna do when Hulkamanina and my 24" pythons run wild on you?!?!?!!?" -- Hulk Hogan 66) Bobby H on Frankie (Koko's bird): "If he was in my house, he'd be in a shake 'n' bake bag." 65) "Take a one way trip down to Larry Land!" -- Larry Zybisco 64) "This is for all the little Stingers" -- Cactus Jack 63) "I love the scent of burnt flesh in the morning." -- Sgt. Slughter after burning Hogan's face 62) "I guess you could call that poetry in motion." -- Jesse V after watchin the Genius smacking a jobber with his poetry plate. 61) "What can I say about this move? Nothing so I won't." -- Randy Savage on the Beverly Bros' finisher 60) "Macho madness lives forver!" -- Randy S. 59) "Yeah what were you doing at Wrestlemania? Ohhhh yeeeeah I'd like to know. You weren't there to gloat were you? No I guess you weren't." -- Randy Savege on Elizabeth being at WMVII 58) "Missy is really a man. She's a cross dresser. She hangs out with Sammartino. They shave each other's back." -- Paul E. 57) "Hey, he speaks pretty well for a guy who just ate 2 lbs of crackers." -- Bobby H on Lou Ferign's speach impediment 56) "The Judge wont allow Pee Wee to defend himself and Pee Wee knows for sure that he can get himself are." -- Jim Cornette 55) "You cannot believe the mayhem!" -- Lance Russel after a Fabulous Ones vs Moondogs match, with over 1/2 dozen foreign objects in the ring. 54) Bobby Heenan on jobber Rikki Atakki: "Once you wrestke Rikki Atakki, an hour later you want to wrestle him again." 53) Bobby H & Gorilla on Chico Santana: Bobby H: Did you know Tito holds a place in Guiness' Book of World Records? Gorilla: Yeah? For what? Bobby H: He picked 1,600 heads of lettuce in 1/2 an hour. Gorilla: Will you stop... 52) "You know why there were only 220 Mexicans at the Alamo? They only had one car." -- Bobby H 51) " Do you know Koko B. Ware's mom's first name? Tupper." -- (For thhe 20 septillionth time) -- Bobby H 50) Roddy Piper on Ole Anderson: "He's as strong as an ox...and ALMOST as smart!" 49) Scotty Anthony to a balding GWF announcer: "I see you got a crew cut...and the crew never came back!" 48) "The Barbarian's shoes are Hair Jordans" -- Bobby H 47) "He's so big he makes a beeping noise when he walks backwords." -- Jim Cornette 46) I'm just thisclose to that world's heavyweight championship belt." -- Rusty Brooks 45) "I'll hit you so hard you'll starve to death rolling." -- Jim Garvin 44) "Eventually, even a blind squirell will find an acorn." -- -- Jim Cornette 43) "I can't jump high, so I jump from high places." -- Cactus Jack 42) "Broken necks, splattered patellas, severed arteries: These are the things from which dreams are made of." -- Road Warrior Hawk 41) "It could be....Giant Baba!" -- Jack Tunney on who "Giant Machine" might be. 40) "I would wrestle Hulk Hogan when I'm 50 years old." -- Bob Backlund 39) "You can see the life LITERALLY oozing from his body!" -- Gorilla Monsoon 38) "Want a hot dog, McMahon?" -- Jesse Ventura 37) "Ever notice Hulk Hogan ain't got no hair on his chest? The only one who's got hair on their chest on their team is Cindy Lauper." -- Roddy Piper 36) "I told Sting that lump in his throat wasn't emotion, it was his liver!" -- Cactus Jack 35) "Just look at the way he hangs in mid air!" -- Bobby Heenan on a freeze frame of Typhoon 34) "They have Ohhhh what a feeling, but we have Ohhhh What a Rush!" -- The Legion of Doom on the Orient Express 33) "Real men wear kilts." -- Roddy Piper 34) "Tito Santana is like a cue-ball. The more you strike him, the more english you get out of him." -- Bobby Heenan 33) "The pleasure was all yours." -- Jesse Ventura 32) "I would rather hurt a man than love a woman." -- Cactus Jack 31) "I've hung & I've bung..." -- Hulk Hogan describing hanging & banging in the same tense 30) "Ric Flair, the Slim Whitman of Pro-Wrestling." -- Rowdy Roddy Piper 29) "Often immitated, but never duplicated!" -- Captain Lou Albano 28) "Oh, here he comes now, the May West of pro-wrestling." -- Roddy Piper on Ric Flair 27) "$5,000 means nothing to me! I did about $5,000 worth of damage to that nose of his!!" -- Greg Valentine after being fined for attacking Ric Flair 26) "Jerry Lawler walks in here with his crown - DA DA DUM - Imperial Margerine - and talks about what he's going to do to me. Lawler, if you think you're going to beat me, if you think you can do ANYTHING to me, than you really are the king. King of FOOLS, jack!!" -- Roddy Piper 25) Gorilla & Bobby on Adrian Adonis: Gorilla: He's quite lethargic. Bobby: And slow. 24) "Tommy Rich, the John-Boy of pro-wrestling." -- Roddy Piper 23) "When's the last time you went into a barber shop and saw everyone there unconsious?" -- Bobby Heenan on Beefcake 22) Roddy Piper on Warlord & his facemask: "He mighta spent a couple years under the arena training young wrestlers..." 21) Roddy Piper on Jim Duggan: "Does the tounge hanging out help his balance?" 20) "It was my pork chop. But that's ok. I ate his dog food." -- Bam Bam Bigelow 19) "I look real good and feel even better, I make a burlap sack look like a cashmere sweater." -- "Ravishing" Ric Rude 18) "Ric Flair is out there crying, his nose is running. He's probably drowning from the size of his nose running." -- Roddy Piper 17) Bobby Heenan on Kerry Von Erich: "He's the only man I know of who can hide his own easter eggs." 16) "I see Sandy Barr got himself a $4 haircut...$1 for each side." -- Scotty the Body Anthony 15) "Aww, whats the problem, gertrude? You mean to tell me that you can't walk into a bar with a $100 bill on your forehead and walk with anything, either male or female?" -- Roddy Piper to a reporter who questioned Curt Hennig's sexuality 14) "I'm the only man you wouodn't want to wrestle...if I was in shape." -- Billy Whatson 13) "When we're done with you' it'll look like we set fire to your face and put it out with an axe!" -- The Road Warriors in their AWA days 12) "He has a lower occipital proturbance!" -- Gorilla Monsoon 11) "If the Gods could build me a ladder to the heavens, I'd climb up the ladder and drop a big elbow on the world." -- Cactus Jack 10) "Rowdy Roddy cut his locks; but don't worry woman, he's still a fox." -- Roddy Piper 9) "I see you have wavey hair....its waveing goodbye!" -- Scotty Anthony to a balding GWF anouncer 8) "He has a calsium deposit on the medulla oblongota of his brain, but he is a brilliant man. This man has a BA, an MA from Havard, and a PhD from Oxford. He's a brilliant man I tell you, Mean Gene." -- Capt. Lou Albano on Buzz Sawyer 7) "Thats where he had the word "Goodyear" dermabrased off." -- Jim Cornette on Dusty Rhode's birthmark 6) "To be that man, you've got to beat the man. Woooo!" -- Ric Flair 5) "Win if you can, lose is you must, but ALWAYS cheat!" -- Jesse Ventura 4) "Ric Flair, you once called me a woman. Well, what I want to know is, how does it feel to get beat by a woman?" -- Roddy Piper 3) "Nature Boy, whats that? Do you run around the forest like Euell Gibbons, eating bark or something?" -- Roddy Piper on Flair's nickname 2) "Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going. Wooooo!" -- Ric Flair 1) (After beating up Frankie Williams on Piper's Pit): "Just when you think you know the answers, I change the questions." -- "Rowdy" Roddy Piper

Erm, why?

Good thing Angle's not over-rated though, eh.

Sorry, but I feel the need to argue. Since there's always people arguing in favour of Angle, Jericho, Booker, Edge, Christian, Matt Hardy and more being "good workers", and since everyone keeps saying RVD isn't a "good worker", I feel like I should argue for him. (As he's clearly in the same league as those guys, though obviously not in the same league as Benoit, Eddie, Austin until about a year ago, Ultimo before surgery, etc.) Here's the list of Rob Van Dam's matches (*SINGLES* matches on *PPV*) that I rate as being "good matches". Vs Jerry Lynn, Living Dangerously '99 Vs Jerry Lynn, Hardcore Heaven '99 Vs Ballz Mahoney, Anarchy Rulz '99 Vs Sabu, Guilty As Charged '00 Vs Jerry Lynn, Hardcore Heaven '00 Vs Scotty Anton, Heat Wave '00 Vs Rhino, Anarchy Rulz '00 Vs Jerry Lynn, Guilty As Charged '01 Vs Jeff Hardy, InVasion Vs Jeff Hardy, Summerslam '01 Vs Chris Jericho, Unforgiven '01 Vs Eddie Guerrero, Judgement Day '02 Vs Chris Benoit, Summerslam '02 That's 13 matches! Not even including TV matches, such as the TV title win against Bam Bam Bigelow or the RAW match vs Eddie, or tag team matches, such as w/Sabu vs Hayabusa and Jinsei Shinzaki at Heat Wave '98 or w/Jerry Lynn vs Lance Storm and Justin Credible at Heat Wave '99 (I could also include Japanese matches that I have seen, such as vs Sabu or vs Dan Kroffat). Now, I would like to hear an argument against this from the "RVD is a terrible worker" crowd.

Just thought everyone might need a good laugh. Can't remember the website i got it from now. Here goes. ***** "The man who drove Beulah McGullislutty into the mat so hard she didn't know whether to urinate, defacate, or ejaculate, I present to you Buh Buh Ray Dudley." "I am the peeled banana in your fruitbowl of love" "Well, well, well if you got an hour, I've got the power. Joel 'You can't have your pudding if you don't eat your meat' Gertner" "Joel 'So hot I gotta get in the sauna just to keep cool' Gertner" "At this time we were going to show you clips of Terry Funk but we couldn't dig them up, but even if they did our stations don't encourage us to use black and white footage" Refering to Big Dick Dudley: "Attached to the creature who last night impregnated your mother ..." "Joel 'The man who is so big he can't help from hurtin her' Gertner" "I don't know what I'd too if I woke up in the morning and I wasn't me" "The quintessential muffstuffer - opps, I mean studdmuffin" "Joel 'Just like the Rubix Cube, the more you play with it, the harder it gets' Gertner" "Joel 'Put your lipstick on my dipstick' Gertner" "And you know, now that I've pounded the hype out of Lance Wright, I think it might be time to whip the smiles from Joey Styles" "The quintessential studmuffin, Joel Gertner - remember that name, you'll be screaming it later" "Joel 'Point the direction you want my erection' Gertner" "Joel 'Harder than the tree that hit Sonny Bono' Gertner" "Joel 'Bigger and better than the Titanic, because only 400 women went down on the Titanic' Gertner" "Joel 'I've busted more nuts than a peanut factory' Gertner" "And then there's me - I'm like milk; I do a body good." "The quintessential studmuffin, the man whose wit is more tongue in cheek than a lesbian orgy, Joel 'The man whose phone number is on your girlfriend's speed-dial, because she loves the way I sixty-nine her' Gertner" "Squeeze my lemons till the juice runs down my leg" "I'm hotter than a 15 year old girl in a field hockey skirt" From his Prodigy interview: "Well, well, well ... put those floppy disks away here comes the man with the biggest hard drive in professional wrestling ... Joel 'I've got more RAM than you can handle' Gertner" "Ladies and Gentlemen the following matchup scheduled for 1 fall with a 15 minute time limit, and your referee is bald" "And there's me, Joel 'The biggest ladykiller in Buffalo since O.J. Simpson' Gertner." "I am the quintessential studmuffin, Joel 'Delivers more package than UPS' Gertner." "Joel 'I'm like the middle of the litter box...I'm always surrounded by pussy' Gertner" "Ladies and Gentlemen the following matchup scheduled for 1 fall with a 15 minute time limit, and your referee is bald" "Joel 'The girls like to call me Fred Flinstone because they love the way I make their beds rock' Gertner"

Are you honestly saying an average WWE PPV is preferable to an average TNA one?

*Starts "You screwed Kev" chant* *come on...anybody?*

...and how much do you pay for the WWE pay-per-views every month. Exactly. TNA put on a better product for almost the same money. Now I live in the UK, so don't have this problem. But I can safely say that since I prefer the TNA tapes i've *BOUGHT/PAID FOR* to the WWE's PPV's, which I get for free, I would, if I lived in the American States of Unitedness (hah, I crack myself up), buy TNA over WWE.

Why, exactly, can't you watch NWA:TNA?

Oh right, in that case i'd still have Cantona no.1 and Keane no.2, and probably have Giggs no.3, Hughes no.4 and Beckham no.5. PS I dislike Beckham as much as everybody else, but I can't dismiss his ability. He's probably in the top 5 in the world today, and United will miss him.

I guess he'd go to MLW and be given the book. I can't picture him in TNA or ROH. He would probably fit-in best with XPW, if it ever gets going again. Only trouble is his history with them, which can surely be fixed.

You know, i'm starting to hate this guy. This is a great idea, if they would move Rob to Smackdown! where he can go back to being a heel (or atleast "cocky", who cares if he gets cheered regardless). But i'd still prefer Fonzie comes back!!!

Just two examples of statements that have been repeated for 6 PAGES!!!! stop arguing with this "WWE mark". He has admitted to have never seen wrestling outside of the WWE, and that he doesn't care about (probably doesn't even know about) anything older than two years. He is an example of the two things I hate most: 1) Those who think theres no such thing as wrestling outside WWE 2) Those who think a wrestler sucks because he was in WCW/ECW/Japan (apparantly, if he was a real wrestler he would have been in WWE, cause WWE IS WRESTLING, you see). So, stop arguing with him, and stop repeating FACTS, like Benoit/Eddie/Austin > Angle