Just John

I've tried to check out most of the big matches people talk about from those times. I'm just not too into the 80's style of wrestling, probably because I'm not nostalgic to it. I didn't get into the Flair/Steamboat matches I saw, even though everyone says they're great. Fundamentally speaking, yes they are, but I just wasn't feeling them personally. There are some other older matches I'd actually like to see in the top 50. Wargames 91/92, Sting/Vader from SB 3, and Sting/Luger vs. Steiners were all good. Although, I still like the mid-90's style better. Just personal preference.

Finlay's alright, but not the best wrestler in the company now. Benoit, Angle, and Michaels are ahead of him for sure. The biggest problem with Finlay is his style isn't compatible with too many people. He works well with a guy like Benoit who can stiff it up, and he looks good when squashing jobbers or midgets, but once he gets another feud after Benoit, he's in trouble. He's very much like Regal in the sense that the number of opponents he can have a good match with are limited due to his style. I did like the apron trap, though. That was clever.

World Heavyweight Title Match Kurt Angle .VS. Undertaker. I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that Angle goes over here. The interesting part is how they protect UT. I'm sure we get an average match that ends with Henry interferrence. "No.1 Contender's Match, to face the World champion at WrestleMania XXII" Rey Mysterio .VS. Randy Orton. I'm sticking with the Observer and picking Orton. Why this needed to happen is beyond me, and I'll mark if Rey wins. I don't know if they'll go back to the Booker interferrence idea, but who cares? WWE United States Title Match Booker T (with Sharmell) .VS. Chris Benoit. Booker probably gets the OJ treatment here. Benoit with a decisive win. Singles Match J.B.L. (with Jillian Hall) .VS. Bobby Lashley. Lashley has to win. JBL is becoming a midcard jobber of Christian proportions, and Lashley is on the rise. WWE Tag Team Titles Match M.N.M. .VS. Matt Hardy & ???. My guess is Animal. I don't want to believe they'd job MNM to a makeshift team for the 3rd time for the belts, something tells me they will... Even with Matt Hardy's troubles. I really hope I'm wrong with this one. Nine-Man, WWE Cruiserweight Title Match Gregory Helms .VS. Kid Kash .VS. Nunzio .VS. Funaki .VS. Scotty 2 Hotty .VS. Psicosis .VS. Super Crazy .VS. Brian Kendrick .VS. Paul London. Eh, could be some fun spotty stuff, who knows? I say Helms wins with some luck to further the tension within that division leading up to Mania.

Early 97. I won't lie, I just find most older stuff boring.

No complaints with the list so far. Maybe rank Ultimo/Rey a little higher, but that's no biggie. As for matches I hope to see: Top 5: Eddie/Rey (HH 97), Luger/Sting/Savage vs. Outsiders/Mystery Partner (BATB 96) Top 10: Rey/Psychosis (BATB 96) Top 20: Malenko/Benoit (Hog Wild 96), Malenko/Eddie (Uncensored 97), Malenko/Rey (GAB 96), Steamboat/Rude (Beach Blast 92) Top 50 : Wargames 96, Mysterio/Calo (Fall Brawl 96), Horsemen vs. Raven/Saturn (Spring Stampede 99)

Yeah, that pretty much nails it. I'd be very surprised if anyone here interacted with Eddie for more than 5 minutes of thier lives. No one here knows what Eddie wanted or would be offended by. Quit thinking that you do. If you personally don't like the angle, that's fine. But don't use your "knowledge" of what Eddie, Rey, or anybody else "really thinks" as justification. You don't know those guys thoughts better than they do. I think the angle is stupid and could've been done differently, but if they're fine with it, so be it.

Seems like Teddy Long was one of the worst WCW managers to have. I remember he also managed Ice Train for a while, and a Chris Jericho as a noob to WCW. Did anyone ever have success with Long?

Random question, but I guess it fits the thread... Does anyone know who does Orlando Jordan's theme song?

Again, I felt Raw was awful this week. When is it going to get out of the hole? HHH/Show in all honesty wasn't bad. Best match they've had together at least. I do like the fact they seem to at least be trying to protect RVD next week. Why was the Shelton/Eugene squash even on? Eugene is so not over. At least Shelton's getting wins and probably gets the IC belt next week. Ashley/Torrie was atrocious, but I guess I didn't expect any less. The Chloe "tush push" is one of the worst spots I think I've seen, but it will get you finisher points if you had Chloe on your fantasy team. This is the second week in a row Ashley has stumbled on a fucking roll up finish... She is undoubtedly the worst wrestler in the company. She makes Mark Henry look like Benoit. Well, no, Henry's not that far ahead of her... She makes Henry look like Carlito. That Vince/Michaels segment was beyond pointless. I guess retirement wasn't so mandatory after all. I kind of like psycho Vince, but not enough to want to see 20 minutes of it. RVD/Masters was what I expected. Nothing good, but a decisive win for RVD, which is all it had to be. Mickie James rules. She's easily the best diva right now. I like Jack, too, for unintentional comedy purposes. Does anyone know who that loser is? And why is he a recurring character? Edge/Cena I thought was awful. Those two have no chemistry and their match was very disjointed and choppy. It was like watching 2 computer guys fight in No Mercy. It also didn't help set up Edge/Foley at all. Edge is right back where he was a year ago complete with the "You screeewed me!" schtick. Hopefully SD continues to be decent.

I'd argue that Angle's Rumble 03 match with Benoit was what really made him a permanent star, as well as Benoit to some degree, in WWE land. His feud with HHH was his first brush with the ME scene, but it really didn't mean much in the long run. He lost the payoff match at Unforgiven cleanly, and the feud didn't tie into his WWF title run at all. Yes, he did win the belt a month later with interferrence, but he didn't do anything of importance with it. Once he lost it, he floundered in the midcard for nearly 2 years, seldom even getting a shot at a big title. Meanwhile, HHH after the feud proceeded to go over Benoit for no reason, then went back to being a main event mainstay until he tore his quad. Then he came back more dominant than ever, while Angle was dicking around with Kane and getting shaved bald by Edge. The whole timeline of events following the first HHH/Angle feud doesn't lend much credibility to the idea of making Angle a star.

Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that throwaway one month "feud" over the title in 01. Probably because the only point of that "feud" was to get the HHH/Austin storyline over. How did HHH even get that title shot? I know he came back from death to beat up Austin, then Austin beat up HHH during his match with Angle, but how did HHH and Angle get together?

Man, if HHH goes in at one of the top 2 spots, that Benoit at 5 reasoning becomes even more of a joke. Angle and HHH never feuded over a main title, unless you count the Summer Slam 2000 triple threat where The Rock was champ.

Interesting call on Malenko/Dragon. I liked the Starrcade match better myself, but it's good to see the Clash match getting some respect. They also had another quality match on Nitro around this time, though it was slightly marred by a DQ finish.

Oh man, that list kind of falls apart up at the top. Angle/Michaels at #2? That wasn't even the best match last year, and it's almost 40 spots ahead of the 2005 MOTY? God... Also, Eddie/Dean was a good match, but #3? It wasn't even their best match together. Then Benoit/Angle in a cage, while very enjoyable, is #6? Ahead of their far more dramatic and technically sound Rumble match? I think the list goes well until you hit the top 10, then there's issues.

Would one of the International posters who has seen the show, or anyone who has read spoilers, be kind enough to post the match listing?

Thanks for the info, guys. Instead of wasting a new thread, can someone just post the SD matches here too?

IYH, rather easily. I think the SS match is one of the more overrated matches of all time. Too much chinlockery for my liking.

I guess I just fall into the opposite group here, because I liked WM 19. It wasn't a spectacular show, but it was B-range for sure. I loved Jericho/Michaels even if the wrong guy won... It was less disappointing than Jericho predictably laying down for HHH, I'll put it that way. HHH/Booker seemed pointless, since nothing came of it, but it was an alright match. I thought the rest of the big matches were good. Rock finally got the decisive win over Austin, McMahon and Hogan had a match that was a zillion times more entertaining than it should have been, and Lesnar/Angle was very well done considering Angle's limitations. I don't think the botched SSP hurt the match that much, but if he hits it, it's one of the best WM matches ever. The only actively bad thing on the show was the Miller Lite catfight girls segment. I think the biggest problem with WM 19 is wasted potential. It was a good show, but with a few other things (Booker winning, Jericho winning, longer CW match, Brock hitting the SSP), it could have been amazing, possibly nearing WM 17 in brilliance.

I personally liked the Lesnar feud. The part leading up to Wrestlemania 19 was pretty well done. I loved the Eric Angle swerve match. The ambiguously gay face/face thing they had going early in the summer of 03 wasn't good, but once Lesnar turned heel, the feud picked back up.

The West playoffs are shaping up to be pretty interesting this year. The 6th spot (currently held by the Hornets, of all teams) will be a gift and has a pretty high likelyhood for a first round upset, since the NW winner will be a barely-above-average team. The 5th spot is almost certain death, however, since that team (currently the Clippers) will get the fun task of facing either the Mavs or Spurs. I'm betting on the Mavs. Barring a huge collapse, it looks like the only spot still up for grabs is the 8th (Lakers for now). I'd watch out for the Kings or Rockets making a charge for the "who gets to job to the Spurs" spot.

I think the only two guys you could make a case for being above Benoit are Austin and Lesnar. Unfortunately, that leaves a third spot open... I have a bad feeling that spot goes to UT.

One very overrated show I think is Wrestlemania X8. I wasn't entertained by a thing on this show. Regal/RVD was a total styles clash and the only bright spot was RVD taking a half nelson suplex. The hardcore title clusterfuck wasn't fun... All I can remember is Maven missing Goldust with a dropkick by like 3 feet, but Goldust sold it anyway. Angle/Kane was one of Kurt's worst ppv matches and ended with the sloppiest roll up ever. While some like Flair/UT, I was bored to death by it. 20 minutes of UT punching and kicking Flair just didn't get me amped, what can I say? Then there was a very heatless Edge/Booker match, probably because, as one sign so aptly put it, "they are fighting over shampoo!" Rock/Hogan was mildly amusing for the crowd reaction, but I'm not a huge fan of Toronto's whole "Let's be different and boo the faces" schtick. The match still sucked. Then there was some women's match no one cared about, followed by the ME no one cared about. I might have missed something, but I doubt it's important. One of the most boring shows ever, in my opinion.

Ugh. Why couldn't they just put Orton over strong at the Rumble and spare us the torture and letdown of this Rey/Randy feud?

I agree whole heartedly on the anti-smarks. Other ones that get me are Puro/Indy snobs who do nothing but hate on mainstream wrestling and cite their favorite Japanese or Indy promotion as a precedent for what "real wrestling" is. On the same note, I don't really like overtly anti-WWE people either. Those people who go out of their way to rip everything WWE does and bash people who enjoy anything about it. This new breed of MMA shills is annoying for a lot of the same reasons. I can understand why people like it, or would prefer it to wrestling, but there's no reason to pollute WRESTLING threads with pro-MMA/Anti-wrestling stuff. I guess I just don't like intolerant fans, or people who push their view as the only right one, especially on message boards. Get over yourselves.

Disregard, 2X post