clean rob

Thank God, so they aren't going to try and make Jackie wrestle anymore.

No, Nidia was only faking being blind for the last week or so, or something like that. Tajiri doesn't use the black mist more often because it makes a terrible mess down his front. He hates that.

That, and the fact that there's no build at all for any of the matches. Expecting people who get 8 PPVs a year for no extra cost to fork out £15 for something like that is ludicrous.

Actually, there usually is a repeat showing of PPVs over here (or in the case of the 4 we pay for, several delayed viewings a day), but as we only have the choice of watching the PPV in the early hours of the morning, or on a tape delay, you'd think that that would decrease the 'value' of the PPVs for us. Also, the WWE hasn't done UK PPVs for several years and doesn't seem to be planning on bringing them back, I think because of extremely low buyrates (funny that, I wonder if the fact that they were just glorified house shows had any connection to the buyrates...) I agree that the WWE could make more revenue out of the UK market, they just need to be careful they don't make the prices skyrocket in order to keep the fans forking out for the PPVs.

(Predicts that by 24 hours after the release of Blade: Trinity on DVD, approx. 50% of all the IWC have a vidcap of HHH's death scene as their signature.)

Oh, people will still want to see it, but the question is are they going to be willing to pay what will be seen as a massive price increase for it? Especially as now, for the first time, there is actual competition for the WWE airing over here? Edit: as for your second comment, if they are definitely going through with this then the best idea, IMO, is to keep the price low, say £9.99, to start with in order to keep people ordering the PPVs. Then slowly over time raise the price.

The PPVs haven't been completely free up till now in the UK, as to watch them requires a Sky Sports package (£30/month) and 4 a year cost an extra £15 each. I think the point hunger4unger is making is that with a sudden jump like that, from paying for 4 PPVs a year to 12 (or possibly 14), a lot of people are going to think 'Aah it's getting too expensive, I dont think I'll bother with PPVs anymore.' It's an especially bad time to start trying this now as Sky has just started airing a FREE Wrestling Channel, which airs NWA:TNA, ROH, NOAH, NJPW and a shitload more for absolutely nothing. Granted, the shows are usually pretty old but it costs nothing and people will just start watching that if the cost of watching WWE goes up such a drastic rate.

Yeah, he beat Mysterio with it on the Smackdown in San Diego. Once again, it looked sick as hell. When was the last time Simmons actually hit the Dominator on TV? I can't recall him using it in years.

Media attention? Possibly, I don't live in the US so I'd find it hard to gauge whether that might be it. I don't buy that Vince would put one of his biggest assets out of commision for a time just to trick the IWC, Vince isn't that bad a businessman. Can't see it being for heel heat either. 'Cause when Brock gets back he'll either get huge pops for being back, or that bad sort of 'Go away, we don't want you anymore' type of heat. I just can't see that the positives of doing a work like this outweighing the negatives...but if it ever turns out to be a work I'll be sure to remember to give you your kudos.

Just out of interest, why do you think Vince would do a work like this? As in, what would be the point?

Possibly. Who knows what the draft will do to plans for Eddy's next feud. To be honest, I think Eddy may well have been taking on Big Show at house shows because he is the only established main eventer they have available.

OK. IMO, the Jericho/Christian match was much improved by its good build up. The main event was slightly improved by its pretty good build up.

About the overexposure point, does anyone actually watch all the WWE programming available? I'd consider myself a pretty big fan, but I'd never watch Bottom Line or Afterburn unless I'd actually missed Raw or Smackdown for some reason. Velocity and Heat I catch if there's a particular match on I really want to see (e.g. Noble/London) but there's too much filler to get me to watch regularly. I'm not sure I agree with that there's too many angles in wrestling per say, there's just too many bad, pointless angles. I have nothing but praise for angles like the Jericho-Trish-Christian stuff, but if the bookers can't think of something half decent for an angle, they should just go with the 'spirit of competition' thing. I definitely think a month's break every year is a great idea. It would give both the viewers and wrestlers time to 'recharge', (in the case of the wretlers, this would hopefully mean a few less injuries and better morale), WM would feel more like the blowoff it's supposed to be, and any roster changes that WWE felt like implementing would feel more natural done in this period.

More than that, Eddie, the top babyface and world champion looking scared shitless. Absolutely. The 'Shit. Oh shit.' look on Eddie's face was GOLD, as was his 'Come on then, just hit me and get it over with!' schtick later on in the segment. And I agree with Choken about the build-up stuff. A match can seem much better than it really is if the build has been good, but a match with bad build up is no worse (if not better) than a match with no build at all.

I think you're exaggerating things in order to make your point. It's not like Benoit was getting steamrollered every week by Trips and Michaels. He was just made to appear as an underdog, I think Benoit was made to look like a third wheel. HHH and HBK were trying to feud, and DAMNIT, that Benoit just wouldn't get out of their feud. Kind of, but then given the basic premise (i.e. the triple threat match), what else could have been done? HHH and HBK were feuding, and had a long and storied history between the two. Benoit turns up and says he wants the title, but has no recent history with either man that can be played off in the feud. So, in a sense, yes he was the third wheel. But he wasn't made out to be inferior, and he wasn't made out to be 'butting in' on the feud...indeed HBK was the man sneaking into the match by rather heel-ish tactics.

I think you're exaggerating things in order to make your point. It's not like Benoit was getting steamrollered every week by Trips and Michaels. He was just made to appear as an underdog, which made his eventual title win all the sweeter when it finally happened, and as far as I could tell he seemed to get his fair share of screen time in the video packages. Anyway, personally I prefer the face challenger (or champion) to appear as if he's up against the odds constantly, especially a face with Benoit's character - it would have been less satisfying to see Benoit go into Mania as the favourite to win before doing so, IMO.

Already posted this in another thread, but this seems to be more appropriate, so here's what I made of the show: Billy Kidman def. Rhyno - pretty good opener, surprisingly good crowd reaction for both men, Rhyno just getting on a mic to declare that 'England sucks!' was quite funny. Cute spot with Kidman going for a test of strength then repeatedly changing his mind about what hand he wanted to use, got a nice reaction for that too. Rather resthold-heavy middle portion of the match. Finish came after Kidman whiffed a (better than usual-looking) SSP attempt, but then dodged the Gore and got the roll-up victory at 10:49. ** Billy Gunn & Hardcore Holly def. TSPWGTT - Crowd absolutely loved Holly (?), and got behind him in the match 100%. TWGTT picked up a fair bit of heat, but a sizeable proportion of the crowd seemed to start rooting for them as the match went on (the turning point seemed to be a lone Geordie voice shouting 'Howay, Shelton lad!', which got a laugh). Benjamin whipped out a gorgeous-looking armdrag variation, spot of the night probably. Other than that, standard hot tag stuff with Shelton halting an Alabama Slam attempt with a superkick before Holly eventually succeeding with a second attempt for the pin at 11:14. *3/4 Chuck Palumbo def. Orlando Jordan - bit of a crowd-killer at the offset, not much reaction for either man and loads of drawn out armwork by Palumbo. Jordan started getting a few cheers towards the end before Palumbo nailed a Samoan drop from Razor Ramon slam position for the pinfall at 8:24. * Nidia def. Jamie 'By God' Noble - The Redneck Messiah - got a laugh out of me when they announced Noble as the Redneck Messiah, but other than that exactly the same crap seen previously at No Way Out, with just a little more wrestling from Nidia. Finish was exactly the same but instead of pinning Nidia after the toss off the top rope, Noble went to pick her up again and was promptly rolled up for the pin at a very long seeming 3:59. 1/4* Chavo Guerrero Jr. def. Rey Mysterio and Nunzio - Biggest pop so far by miles for Rey Rey, and great heat for Chavo. Probably more continous heat than anyone else got all night, in fact. Nunzio got an OK reaction. Usual 3-way stuff with one man sitting around watching the other two slug it out, then joining in ans swapping around. Couple of nice 3-man spots before Rey eliminated Nunzio with the sitting Senton at 4:48. Lots of 'Eddie' chants directed at Chavo. Decent back & forth action, Rey hits his springboard crossbody for two but Chavo blocks the moonsault attempt (booo!) before going for an electric chair drop, promptly reversed into a spinning headscissors to set up the 619. Of course, Chavo Sr (I assume it was him, couldn't actually see) trips Rey on the attempt allowing Chavo to get the pin at 14:40. After the match Rey goes for the 619 on Nunzio after getting attacked, only to be interrupted by Palumbo, and then finally nailing both FBI members with it simultaneously. Yay Rey! **1/2 2 Cool def. Basham Brothers - say what you will about Scotty and Rikishi, but my God they were over in Newcastle tonight. Scotty was the face-in-peril as always, with Rikishi coming in for the hot tags. Bashams did nothing of note, but managed to pick up a little crowd heat. Rikishi went for the Banzai drop, but the Basham (lost track of which one) got his legs up thanks to a switcheroo. Rikishi later hit his Sitting Down Thing finisher for the pin at 12:53. Post-match saw some stinkface action for a Basham and two kids invited up for dancing and some Worm attempts. This was by far the most entertaining portion of the match. * John Cena def. Bradshaw - Bradshaw playing heel here after a nice little promo section from Heyman and Cena finishing in an unexpected Bradshaw turn on Cena. Poor match, it was fairly obvious Cena was injured as he hardly did any of his signature spots (no Nike pump-up, booo!). Bradshaw got a nice Big Boot in before getting hit with the F-U for the pin at 6:30. 1/2* Torrie Wilson def. Dawn Marie - Didn't see much of this as all the 14-year old lads in front of me stood for the duration of this one, though made very little actual noise. Hair pulls a-plenty, couple of botched-looking spots and a small amount of actual wrestling from Torrie (cross-body off the top, swinging neckbreaker for the pin at 5:14). 1/4* Eddie Guerrero def. Big Show - not bad pops for both men, can't say I agree with hunger4unger about the Eddie support - he seemed to be getting chants the entire match to me. First 5 minutes were all Show s-l-o-w-l-y working the arm, with a few leg drops and that 'holding the opponent in the air by their locked arm' spot (you know, the one Taker kept doing to Booker T a while back). Weird spot in the middle with Eddie biting Show's ass to get out of a hold. Picked up a bit later on, Eddie eventually hitting a top rope Tornado DDT and the Frog Splash for the 1-2-NO! Chokeslam, the ref is out, belt shot, and another Frog Splash for the pin at 15:37. ** Enjoyable section at the end with some Eddie/Cena interplay, crowd got really into it and Cena's freestyle was great. Overall: not great wrestling (with a few good bits), but crowd atmosphere made up for a lot. Edit: Ah, it was Nunzio tripping Rey. My bad.

Rikishi is still extremely over with a lot of live crowds. As long as he's kept in a tag team environment his style works fine, he's surprisingly fast and agile given his size and he rarely gets injured, hurts anyone or blows spots. Albert/A-Train gets guaranteed heat by virtue of his hairy back, and in-ring is probably the most talented 'big man' on the roster (possibly after Taker) with a great moveset. Both are good way from the bottom rung of the ladder in terms of who needs releasing.

I can't see any report, so here's a quick recap if anyone's interested: Billy Kidman def. Rhyno - pretty good opener, surprisingly good crowd reaction for both men, Rhyno just getting on a mic to declare that 'England sucks!' was quite funny. Cute spot with Kidman going for a test of strength then repeatedly changing his mind about what hand he wanted to use, got a nice reaction for that too. Rather resthold-heavy middle portion of the match. Finish came after Kidman whiffed a (better than usual-looking) SSP attempt, but then dodged the Gore and got the roll-up victory at 10:49. ** Billy Gunn & Hardcore Holly def. TSPWGTT - Crowd absolutely loved Holly (?), and got behind him in the match 100%. TWGTT picked up a fair bit of heat, but a sizeable proportion of the crowd seemed to start rooting for them as the match went on (the turning point seemed to be a lone Geordie voice shouting 'Howay, Shelton lad!', which got a laugh). Benjamin whipped out a gorgeous-looking armdrag variation, spot of the night probably. Other than that, standard hot tag stuff with Shelton halting an Alabama Slam attempt with a superkick before Holly eventually succeeding with a second attempt for the pin at 11:14. *3/4 Chuck Palumbo def. Orlando Jordan - bit of a crowd-killer at the offset, not much reaction for either man and loads of drawn out armwork by Palumbo. Jordan started getting a few cheers towards the end before Palumbo nailed a Samoan drop from Razor Ramon slam position for the pinfall at 8:24. * Nidia def. Jamie 'By God' Noble - The Redneck Messiah - got a laugh out of me when they announced Noble as the Redneck Messiah, but other than that exactly the same crap seen previously at No Way Out, with just a little more wrestling from Nidia. Finish was exactly the same but instead of pinning Nidia after the toss off the top rope, Noble went to pick her up again and was promptly rolled up for the pin at a very long seeming 3:59. 1/4* Chavo Guerrero Jr. def. Rey Mysterio and Nunzio - Biggest pop so far by miles for Rey Rey, and great heat for Chavo. Probably more continous heat than anyone else got all night, in fact. Nunzio got an OK reaction. Usual 3-way stuff with one man sitting around watching the other two slug it out, then joining in ans swapping around. Couple of nice 3-man spots before Rey eliminated Nunzio with the sitting Senton at 4:48. Lots of 'Eddie' chants directed at Chavo. Decent back & forth action, Rey hits his springboard crossbody for two but Chavo blocks the moonsault attempt (booo!) before going for an electric chair drop, promptly reversed into a spinning headscissors to set up the 619. Of course, Chavo Sr (I assume it was him, couldn't actually see) trips Rey on the attempt allowing Chavo to get the pin at 14:40. After the match Rey goes for the 619 on Nunzio after getting attacked, only to be interrupted by Palumbo, and then finally nailing both FBI members with it simultaneously. Yay Rey! **1/2 2 Cool def. Basham Brothers - say what you will about Scotty and Rikishi, but my God they were over in Newcastle tonight. Scotty was the face-in-peril as always, with Rikishi coming in for the hot tags. Bashams did nothing of note, but managed to pick up a little crowd heat. Rikishi went for the Banzai drop, but the Basham (lost track of which one) got his legs up thanks to a switcheroo. Rikishi later hit his Sitting Down Thing finisher for the pin at 12:53. Post-match saw some stinkface action for a Basham and two kids invited up for dancing and some Worm attempts. This was by far the most entertaining portion of the match. * John Cena def. Bradshaw - Bradshaw playing heel here after a nice little promo section from Heyman and Cena finishing in an unexpected Bradshaw turn on Cena. Poor match, it was fairly obvious Cena was injured as he hardly did any of his signature spots (no Nike pump-up, booo!). Bradshaw got a nice Big Boot in before getting hit with the F-U for the pin at 6:30. 1/2* Torrie Wilson def. Dawn Marie - Didn't see much of this as all the 14-year old lads in front of me stood for the duration of this one, though made very little actual noise. Hair pulls a-plenty, couple of botched-looking spots and a small amount of actual wrestling from Torrie (cross-body off the top, swinging neckbreaker for the pin at 5:14). 1/4* Eddie Guerrero def. Big Show - not bad pops for both men, can't say I agree with hunger4unger about the Eddie support - he seemed to be getting chants the entire match to me. First 5 minutes were all Show s-l-o-w-l-y working the arm, with a few leg drops and that 'holding the opponent in the air by their locked arm' spot (you know, the one Taker kept doing to Booker T a while back). Weird spot in the middle with Eddie biting Show's ass to get out of a hold. Picked up a bit later on, Eddie eventually hitting a top rope Tornado DDT and the Frog Splash for the 1-2-NO! Chokeslam, the ref is out, belt shot, and another Frog Splash for the pin at 15:37. ** Enjoyable section at the end with some Eddie/Cena interplay, crowd got really into it and Cena's freestyle was great. Overall: not great wrestling (with a few good bits), but crowd atmosphere made up for a lot.

Cheers again for all the info there, guys. Card isn't exactly awesome (Nidia vs. Noble, again? Ugh.) but there's a few possible good matches in there (Eddie/Show, US & Cruiserweight title matches) and hopefully the live atmosphere will add a lot to the show. No Taker is probably going to piss off a few people. So, anyone got any good chants to start? If Palumbo hits Jordan with his superkick, I might try for 'You got whacked! You got whacked!' Just noticed...no A-Train either. And no Ultimo. And no Tajiri. And no London! Missing out on a lot of my faves. Good thing Bradshaw made the card or I'd be really pissed off. </sarcasm>

Personally, I think the colour of the Benoit shirt is pretty cool. Both are considerably better than the usual stuff WWE seems to churn out.

Cheers mate, sounds like I'll be OK for my train anyway - and I'm sure I can find a few pubs to have a few pints in before the show, it's Newcastle after all. Think I'll give the gay bar a miss, but thanks for letting me know it's there anyway!

I'm not so much tired of them as sick to death of them. It's the sort of thing that's great for a house show, but on TV every single week... it's starting to look like stock footage.

So it's going to be randomly drawn, yes? Not a 'hand-picked draft' like last time? (incidentally...poor Jericho last draft, coming out of a WM main event and getting picked after so many others) Hard to say what changes will be made, it depends how drastically they want to shake things up. I think it's highly likely that both Cena and Orton will switch brands. Kane and Taker need to end up together if they ever want to make something of Kane by putting him over the Deadman (so that won't happen). Personally, I hope they don't alter the rosters too much, it would ruin all the work they've done to give the brands a seperate identity.

Indeed. Whilst I'm still looking forward to going as it will be my first live show, I can't help but wonder what matches we're actually going to see. I'm looking forward to seeing Eddie (complete with big gold belt) wrestle, but who's he going to be up against? No Lesnar, unlikely to be vs. Angle, Big Show perhaps? Given the fact that Smackdown have lost a LOT of top talent recently (Benoit, Lesnar, Angle to an extent), I'm really hoping they'll ship over a few decent Raw workers as well. On a seperate note, does anyone have any idea what the likely finish time for the show is? I think my last train back is about 10:40, but I don't want to miss anything. Also: anyone from Newcy know any decent pubs near the arena?