clean rob

Hmmm....what I said: What you just said: Try to keep on track, eh AngleSault? Do you not think Angle has good delivery of comic lines? Personally, I think he has nice timing, and can get a couple of laughs even out of some relatively mediocre, silly material. I never claimed the wig thing was anything but, but on that occasion Kurt's big goofy grin and cracking delivery made me smile. I'd be intrigued to know what sort of comedy stuff you'd put on WWE television, AS. What sort of stuff do you think the demographic they're after would find funny? And you're not allowed to say none.

Ah...the classic "you are clearly 12 years old" insult. Oof! Hitting me where it hurts, eh? If they're not going for this demographic which you speak of, why do they have scantily-clad women (of interest to: young males with no access to porn, say 12-14) and comedy angles like men spraying raw sewage at each other appearing on the show every week. I see it like this: I have a younger cousin of age 11. He, and half his mates at school all watch Smackdown every week and talk about wrestling, play the games etc. all the time. I know of no-one of my age in the area with any interest in it whatsoever. The kids are watching it, no-one else is so I'd say it's being aimed at kids (young adults, whatever.) I seem to have missed all the gratuitous sex that was shown.

^^^ (rubs eyes) ...did you just refer to Smackdown as a show geared towards adults? Yes, now I think about it, Kurt's hairpiece angle really did look pretty stupid next to all those dramatic backstage segments, those heartfelt and beautifully delivered promos and all those really clever, well-scripted comedy pieces that Smackdown has been delivering on a weekly basis these past few years.

He's wearing a wig! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No. Yes, yes...we all know you're a big Angle mark and you hate it when he's made to look like anything but the toughest wrestler in the company, or made to job to anyone. But I think Angle's got really good comic delivery at times, and when he came out after having his head shaved, and claimed that it had all grown back, I couldn't help but chuckle. I know it's hardly sophisticated comedy, but haven't you ever watched something you knew was bad, but were entertained anyway? (e.g. WWE) I'm probably in a minority, but half of what I LIKE about Angle is the fact that despite his in-ring ability and toughness, his character comes across as being totally goofy. It's a world away from the usual HHH-style "I'm a badass that's gonna kick everyone in" character that we've all seen a million times over. The fact that he goofs around a lot makes it more exciting when he gets all serious, and makes him seem more like a real character to me.

2002. Not only was he putting on 3-4* matches all year long with the 'Smackdown Six', he was also being an absolute carry machine, dragging watchable matches out of shitheaps like Mark Henry. 2001 had better storylines for Angle, but his ringwork last year was on fire. I must be the only person ever who found the hairpiece thing amusing. Oh well.

No, I don't. I remember Lesnar and Taker wrestling to a no-contest at Unforgiven, and then Lesnar pinning a bloodied Taker in his signature match a month later (the culmination of their feud and the match that will be remembered of it). Taker got the upper hand in the feud occassionally, so what? Would you have had Lesnar squash Taker week in week out then dominate and pin him at Unforgiven? Or perhaps some other equally genius booking? You refer to Lesnar as 'The Heatless Wonder', which as I remember, he was - right up until... oooh, around this time last year? Could it be his feud with Taker worked, and got our boy Brock some heat at last? Naaah, the only way to get over is to go over, isn't it? Isn't it? Are you a Goldberg fan, HHH's 'Roid Needle? Because feeding everyone to him to get destroyed may well have worked for GB, but only at the expense of everyone he tore apart. And I for one don't find it entertaining. As for Guerrero, did you want him to keep the US title till he retired? No, me neither. What wrestler could Eddie have dropped the belt to that would lose him the least amount of heat? Rey Rey? Chavo? No, losing to a (currently very credible) 7 foot monster who has been WWE champ and beaten pretty much everyone on the roster does not make Eddie look bad. And he lost while he was injured, got plenty of nearfalls and took TWO chokeslams. How much stronger could he been booked while getting pinned? It's funny, I thought I'd rather anyone was running the WWE than Vinnie Mac, but at least he has some modicum of sense, which puts him one rung above you.

"Bit silly" - yeah, maybe. But it isn't too much of a stretch of the imagination that what Taker was after is the title and if he got to beat up Brock with the chain that was a bonus. In order for the match to go a decent length, Taker couldn't get the chain and decimate Brock immediately, and it would have been kind of weird if he hadn't made ANY pin attemts. Plus, Taker was the one who made the most effort to get the chain, so you could tell he did want it.

Eddy lost one match, after a good title reign, to a man twice his size who has been built up as a monster, covered in wound dressing from a vicious beating he took prior to the match and the commentators put over so as to make him seem less than 100%. He has not, repeat not, been "buried". Edit: Also, what TMER said.

Except...all that stuff they haven't done in previous matches? To wear down Lesnar. It takes a lot of enegry to kick out of a pin by a guy Taker's size, or so the commentators keep telling us. Maybe he was trying to get a pinfall because, I dunno... if he had got one he'd have won and become champion? Of course, we all know that there wasn't going to be a pinfall before the chain came down (I was very surprised it played such a small part in the match), but in kayfabe, why not go for early pins?

Surely shome mishtake? I can't believe someone thinks Lawler is a better colour commentator than Tazz, especially currently. Why does he need to act like Ventura? (Lawler's not exactly overly heelish, now is he?) What exactly is the problem with Tazz? That he calls moves correctly (does Lawler even call them at all anymore?), or that he puts over good wrestling, as opposed to the sight of cleavage, as the main attraction? As for pronouncing words correctly...pfff...I mark out for "JOY-MAN!" anyways. I didn't think the PPV was as good as Mania or Vengeance, but it was one of the more enjoyable in recent memory. Sagged a bit in the middle, but the crowd helped a LOT. Tajiri-Rey ***1/4, really good up till the end, I would have rather had some of that Black Mist than a run-in. Good commentating here, putting over that cruiserweights don't have to be aerial all the time. Benoit-A Train **3/4, I really am getting to like A-Train over the last year, his moveset is pretty funky. Horrible landing for Benoit, I was wincing at the replay. Would have got *** if it wasn't for Benoit faffing about with the sharpshooter (which was otherwise cool.) Hardy/Gowen *3/4, I like Hardy AND (God help me) Gowen in the ring, but I was just not getting much out of this. APA/Bashams *1/4, just really, really bored me. I don't mind the Bashams but I just couldn't care less about the APA, and Shaniqua will need more than a boob job to become even vaguely attractive. 1/4* for the cool Last Call off the 'buckle. Vince/Stephanie *1/2 for the heat that Vince (God love him) somehow gets off a crowd, and the booking which was adequate. Well placed in the show, aswell. Angle/Cena ****, absolutely incredible heat and I 100% bought the near fall with Angle's medal. Good action and pacing and a clean finish with both guys leaving looking good. MOTN. Eddy/ Big Show **1/4, enjoyable brawl, told a clear, concise story... couldn't have asked for much better - hopefully Eddie comes off this well and can keep his heat - shouldn't be a problem for my man latino heat! 'Taker/Lesnar ***1/2, I was soooo into this until the run-ins at the end, the spots were great, the match really hung together nicely, Taker was sweeeet and I always love Brock's bumping. Would have given it around ****1/4 if not for the run-ins, which really FUCKED ME OFF, and the pointless near falls which I was never going to buy. The chain should have come down a little earlierfor some choking action, and they should have taken a single shot with the chain before each nearfall. Still, can't complain!

Latest word is plans are for the channel to start in January '04 and be available to all Sky Digital subscribers at no extra cost. BTW, TNA *will* be a part of the channel. I heard it had been delayed till March (it was originally going to beging airing this month). Said to be going to include TNA, CZW, ROH, NOAH, NJPW and a bunch more. Sounds good, but I wouldn't hold your breath, it could well end up being delayed to nothingness, and I for one have yet to see anything official confirming it's existence.

Hahahahaha! Did Droz say that? If he did, it must have been through gritted teeth.

If they do go through with this, surely even the most forgetful of marks are going to see straight through such an obvious re-hash of a recent gimmick. And it's not like it was even a particularly successful gimmick.

(tries to think of witty reply...) No, YOU suck.

What's your point? Don't you think it's OK to have a chuckle if a child does something a bit daft? It's not like anyone's said anything nasty about them.

I think this is a bit unfair. The Smackdown tag team division has (in patches, admittedly) made for some of the best TV that WWE have produced over the last year or so, and the titles have been made to really look like they mean something. Obviously the Raw tag team division sucks though. I have to agree with Downhome, I reckon Y2J is a potential goldmine for WWE and they just refuse to push him correctly with any real conviction. I don't recall any other World Champ being made to look like such a bitch, and the build up to WMX8 was just laughable. Also, whilst Eddy obviously has better in-ring abilities than Jericho and is on a roll right now, though I'm currently finding Eddy more entertaining I just don't see him being a major draw for the WWE, whereas I do with Jericho - he just has that look and feel about him.

I think it says a lot that the kid (I assume it is a fairly young child, pretty worrying if it isn't) gives his location as "SOUTH ENGLAND". You have to assume they haven't been watching wrestling longer than a couple of months, either that or they have a really short memory.

I wouldn't call HHH having his trachea crushed a 'common mishap'. Workers were complaining about RVD because it wasn't just occasionally he was busting people open by accident (I've never heard ANYONE say it was on purpose, nevermind Angle dropping RVD on his head...which I don't recall happening anyway...where did you hear this ridiculous stuff?), it was becoming a regular occurrence, mostly due to extremely stiff Van Daminators, which he now hardly ever does as a result.

This is such an obviously good idea that there is no chance in hell of it happening. Plus if, as you said, the higher profile Velocity angles made appearances on SD occasionally, it might encourage more people to watch Velocity. They've already got Afterburn as a recap show, why bother with a second one spliced in with an actual wrestling show? It could even be worked into angles, e.g. Vince could punish a wrestler for speaking out against him by 'relegating' him to Velocity for a month or something (which could build even more interest). Or possibly that's a little too close to reality.

Well I'm glad you're so well informed as to know exactly where the line is drawn as to what is and isn't physically provoking someone. And I'm intrigued by your use of the terms "defend oneself" and being "removed from the premises". The guy had started to run away, how exactly was Eddie still defending himself when he pelted after him and repeatedly punched him? And don't tell me that is any sort of definition of removing someone from the premises. By your logic, Eddie was being physically assaulted and therefore well within his rights to physically assault the guy back? So...it would have been OK if the guy had pulled a knife and stabbed Eddie in return, yes? Oh, and if some copper beat the shit out of me just because I'd poured a beer on him, I would get a good lawyer and CLEAN UP, believe you me.

No, you said: "Screw what is right and what is wrong. Sometimes a motherfucker just needs the shit kicked out of them." (and who talks like that, anyway?) - I was equating this statement with the mentality of the (presumably) drunken idiot, who probably thought something along the lines of "Screw what everybody else thinks, sometimes a motherfucker just needs beer poured on their head." I said I would probably lash out at someone who poured beer over me because I'm not infallible and I would likely lose my temper if that happened. And I would feel morally justified, too. But (and this is the clincher) if I was doing my job at the time - and being paid a pretty packet to do it, let's not forget - I'd feel pretty lucky not to be fired that night. If you do a job that involves interaction with the general public, be it shop worker, bouncer, pro wrestler, whatever...you have to expect that a proportion of those people are going to be assholes. It's a shame, but that's life. I don't blame Eddie for one minute for doing what he did, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be punished for it.

My, my...somebody got bullied at school, didn't they? It's a shame that not everybody has the enlightened outlook on life that you do, my friend. Funny thing is, our beer-pouring fuckwit in the audience probably had a very similar thought process in his head: "I think this guy should have beer poured on him, fuck the consequences!" Any policeman worth his salt will haul you in for disturbance of the peace or something, what he won't do is start flailing punches at you. I couldn't agree more that the guy was clearly a total cockmuncher, and I probably would have had a pop at him myself had I been in Eddie's shoes. But like nl5xsk1 said, an action being morally justifiable does not make it legal, or correct. Eddie was out there in front of a crowd and should have sucked it up and carried on with his job.

Oh, sorry...you sounded like you were being serious to me. Indeed, the ball was well and truly dropped by the bookers with old Gowen. The bit that really got me was when when Vince asked him to accept his apology, and instead of accepting it (and subsequently shaking Vince's hand only to recieve a low blow or something, which is what should have happened), Zach basically tells him to fuck off, and acts pretty much just as asshole-y as Vince. I missed a few of the Smackdowns before Vengeance, so I no doubt missed out on the full effect of Gowen being ineffectually shoved down everyone's throats, which sounds like what happened. It's a shame, I think they could have had a really good angle with him. Maybe one can still be salvaged. Doubt it though.

No kidding. Although I have to admit, the mark in me kind of enjoyed the Vince/Zach match. I just thought it was kinda cool seeing the spots done by a guy with one leg. I know, I know. (hangs head)

Except...that they don't. They don't seem to be listening to anyone currently, and they're certainly not using any conventional logic at all. [McMahon HQ] Vince: Well, that Vengeance didn't seem to pick up a very good buyrate, Steph. And we were BOTH on the card. What gives? Steph: I don't know daddy. Probably we didn't promote our matches strongly enough. Or maybe no-one was interested in the losers we were beating up. Vince: So maybe next time, we should have a match with both of us...it's every pro wrestling fan's dream matchup! Steph: You're a genius daddy! [shane runs in, bleeding heavily] Shane: Look at me everybody! Im really hurting myself! LOOK AT ME! [throws himself through the door] Vince: Err...OK, well what about the other matches on the card? Steph: Other matches?