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Baek Ji Young - Dream

I doubt Cloud will win here, this isn't GameFaqs after all, and most people here seem to think his character is whiny and annoying. He's alright, but I won't vote for him over anyone with a decent personality.

Wow, so close...

Meh...

No one would mind a fixed up version of SvC, because it was unplayably broke to begin with, had no tourney community and things could only get better. With the main games, though, the tourney strategy is so established that no one wants Capcom to change it, they just want the exact same game but playable on PS2. For some games, the glitches have made the game more popular and more "balanced" (like roll cancels in CvS2, apparently it made more characters viable and created a better, albeit ridiculously glitchy, game), and people probably worry that fixing the glitches would make the game worse. I don't play those games tourney level though, so I don't care either way.

*Awesome*! Third Strike is my all time favorite 2D fighter, and the only one that I'd really consider putting in the time to get good at. The only thing keeping me from it was that it wasn't on PS2. Omg I'm so happy, hehe. I guess my Japanese PS2 will finally get used for something other than Bemani.

I need to find someone with a GameCube so I can play it. I really want to play it, MGS is like my second favorite game ever, but I'm not willing to buy a GameCube just for it.

Fighters recently, for the social dynamic. I used to love RPGs, but now I find it hard to just sit by myself for the 60 hours it takes to play them. Fighters you have people over, you make a community, it's a good time. Single player games all feel boring now.

Heh I love Ayu, ever since I discovered her from DWI simfiles (I now have like 45 DWIs of her songs, I'm such a dork). I like most of her original songs, and I really love the remixes. Ayu-ro 1 and 2 especially, just one good song after another. I am... is a really good album too. Hikki's alright, she definately has a better voice than Ayu, but the songs are too downbeat most of the time. Not danceable enough.

Nod, my roommate gets GMR for free as part of some promotion, and I've always liked it. They had an issue that reviewed SC2, VF4e and also had a brief history on fighters over time, and although the reviews were still kind of scrubby, I was very impressed by how historically accurate and unbiased it was. I've liked it ever since. It's willing to be more honest in giving negative reviews to overhyped games than any other mag I've seen recently. And I'm a *huge* mark for any mag that bashes Manhunt. Such an awful game.

I play. My name on there is Clockzor. It's really simple, just choose 1, 2 or SS and hold space to change your shot's power, and use left and right to move back and forth and up and down to change your angle. But yeah, everything on the website is in such bad Engrish it's hard to understand. "The accounts which it applies already is in the process of using.". Tehe.

Different priorities, I guess. I want my games to be good rather than different. I put almost no premium on innovation, if a game is innovative and good, that's great, if it's innovative and flawed, then I'd rather have a polished sequel. I didn't like that sequels were almost guaranteed not to get higher than ****, no matter how good they were, because of the innovation criteria. I also don't think a *-***** rating system with no subcriteria and only 5 possible scores is really versatile enough to be accurate. The *** and **** ratings in particular had a huge range. Some games were *** and were great games, just derivative, others were *** and seriously flawed, but got *** for effort. It was too hard to know whether a game you were interested in was actually worth buying with their rating system.

Next Gen's previews were top of the line. I remember a ten page Super Mario 64 preview with tons of screenshots, detailed game information, interviews with the development team, all sorts of cool stuff. Every other mag just gave you like a page with a little blurb and some pictures, Next Gen was on a different level. The reviews were terrible though, short, very little information and an arbitrary rating tied more to innovation than gameplay. But for info about games in development, nothing was ever as good as Next Gen was.

Nod, that's pretty normal, mashers like Maxi because he does long strings if you mash, like Eddy in Tekken, and people like Kilik and Nightmare because they look cool and have abusable moves that beat inexperienced people. Asta I guess people just use because he looks cool, but he's not really easy to use. Mitsu's usually pretty popular in malls too because he's the cool samurai guy, heh. Coolness factor is such a big deal in mall character selection. X is much easier to use scrubbily and win with than anyone else, but she doesn't get used much because she's not "cool".

I really like the box art on VF4 Evolution and Tekken 3. I also like MGS and FF3's box art, for some reason I like the simple elegance thing, especially for legendary games like those. Can't think of any particularly terrible covers off the top of my head, but I doubt anything I could think of would beat Super Bust a Move anyway. Wow that's bad.

Top Tier: Ivy, Yoshi, Cervy, Xianghua, Sophie Most Popular: X, because she's braindead easy to use at upper-mid level, so people that got into the game late and want to be competitive, or Tekken players that want to win without doing much work, love her. She's really tough to beat if you can't block the 3A/3B mixup on reaction. Best Overall: Debatable, but I'd say Ivy. Best 2A in the game, best step in the game in a game hugely dependant on step, best post-step punisher in the game by far (33A, does 120 on hit, doesn't even have to be counter), best high/throw whiff punisher in the game (fc1B), one of the best lows in the game (K2), one of the best throw games (SS/CS, people are starting to break SS on reaction now, but still only Asta/Berserker are better there), excellent mids (4A+B:B, 8A+B), excellent moves at all ranges, no real weaknesses. Maybe a lack of variety in close, but with 2A, K2 and 4A+B, you don't need much else.

Derr I'm bored waiting for someone to meet me in a computer lab, didn't see this before, might as well reply. Heh I wasn't using GI as some sort of leet abbreviation to prove how little you knew. Everyone talking about SC should know what GI is, it's pretty fundamental. When I said you didn't know what you were talking about, my evidence was you calling SC a button masher in one post and fast paced and aggressive in another, neither of which are true at a decent level. No I'm not, I didn't say anything like that. GIs are a dynamic that I like, but I never claimed they were innovative or anything. SC isn't particularly innovative, never said it was. Hey, I never said they were important in any context except saying that post-GI is (or used to be) a pure 50/50 situation, which is true. Nowadays that's not even true, since the 2G glitch has made it so that you can block "guaranteed" moves post-GI, and now GIs are fairly limited in use at the highest level. Meh, you still do lack knowledge of where SC's depth comes from. It's pretty similar to Tekken's, in that you have to know move priorities and frame data (or at least have a sense of what beats what) in order to know what interrupts what, whether moves give you advantage or disadvantage on block, what's punishable, what gives you advantage so that it can't be interrupted, etc. SC also has more of a range dynamic than other 3D games, so you have to be very conscious of spacing and know what you can hit with from various ranges. Glitches have changed a lot of game priorities, but they add depth in themselves. It used to be that you had to be careful when you tried to step, since horizontals could punish step. Now, with step-guard, horizontals can't punish step, but tracking lows can, so there's a premium on those. And while GI has been weakened with 2G, there's a whole new mindgame there, since things like GI-> throw that used to be fairly useless are now stronger since the throw attempt is still guaranteed, even with 2G. Blah blah blah. Trying to explain depth just makes me feel like a dork, so I'll stop, but the point is that there's tons of tournament level depth that casual players calling the game a masher don't know about. That's true of almost all fighters, so when people call any good 2D or 3D fighter shallow or a masher, they're almost always wrong.

I voted for FF1 because it's the game I played by far the most as a little kid (although the original version is pretty unplayable now, but the FFO version kicks ass). Other contenders include SMB3, DW3, MM2 and LoZ. Oh and Blaster Master, damn that game was cool.

Super Turbo. And yeah, DoA and SvC do suck, that's why no one plays them seriously. Having depth is kind of a prereq for being a tourney game, so being below average depth-wise for tourney games doesn't mean it's not still incredibly deep. All tourney fighters are, meh.

Compared to most of the tournament batch, maybe. I'd say it's deeper than ST and what is actually used at tourney level in T4 and MvC2, and shallower than TTT, VF4e, CvS2, 3s and GGXX. It's deeper than pretty much all non-tourney fighters though, like SvC or DoA or whatever.

So we come right back around to "game magazines today suck. Oh absolutely, I've posted several times on this board about how much I hate them, particularly right after they started releasing T4 reviews. Which is why I always get probably somewhat overly annoyed when I see other people saying the same kind of stuff that they say, particularly about Tekken. By the same token, I could make the Marvel vs. games sound waaay more strategic than they are by their very nature. Heh I don't consider 50/50 guessing very strategic. SC2 isn't the most strategic game out there by any means. Certainly not a masher, but not as elaborate as TTT or 3s.

In recent Tekken and Soul Calibur, that's just not true. Yeah, there are a fair number of three strings still around, but they're almost never used unless you get the first hit counter and they're natural combo on counterhit. Most of the three strings aren't mixups and you can just block them the same way every time without having to worry about interrupting them, and then punish them because there's major frame delay after the last hit. Soul Blade did have a fair number of variable four strings, but again, the game's seven years old. The only major 3D game with four strings as a significant part of the gameplay now is VF4, and they're still rarely used at high level. Yeah, learning to deal with scrub shit is part of the game, but it's part of any game. Saying that Tekken or SC is based on three-five strings is like saying SF is based on standing back and lobbing fireballs, or about jumping in with a jump kick -> low kick. It works against scrubs, and you have to learn to deal with it, but once you get to a reasonable level it's no longer a factor. People's perception of Tekken (based a lot on uneducated magazine bullshit, so we're united on our dislike for bad reviews) is ten-strings, multi-throws, deathfists and Eddy mashing. In reality, Tekken is based on constant, complex movement (steps, backdashes, wavedashes and all sorts of complex character specific stuff), baiting out a whiff, punishing, that kind of stuff. It's a totally different game, not even similar. No, trust me, SC2 is more of a 50/50 game than almost anything else out there. Hard to see mid/throw or mid/low mixups are a huge part of most people's game, and the post-GI game is 50/50 also, between moves that force a re-GI and moves that punish a whiffed re-GI (technically that's not true anymore with 2G, but that's going into too much detail). It's also far from quick and brutal, since rushdown is so unsafe that only Yoshi can do it and get away with it. If anything, most people's complaint is that the game is too turtley. So if two players mash, one will win. Yup. That's true in any fighter, and any two player videogame for that matter. If two people mash in NBA Jam, since one has to win, one will win. Doesn't mean they're not both awful. The question is, will mashers beat a fundamentally solid player. Answer, no. Never. Maybe one time in a thousand, if the decent player feels like giving them a sympathy round. That means the games aren't mashers, simple as that. Shrug, 2D games have better jump movement while 3D games have better in/out movement. I personally love the dynamic of using jump attacks to punish lows, but that's just me. And actually, you can just jump. SC2: G+7, G+8, G+9 jump back, straight up and forward. Tekken has always been tap up to step, hold up to jump. T4 I'm not sure if you can jump straight up, but uf and ub give you forward or backward jump. If by older games you mean only Tekken 1, then yeah, but Tekken 1 isn't exactly a game I'm saying is great. Every Tekken since one, every Soul series game and every VF I've played have breakable throws. What else matters? I don't know if Bloody Roar has breakable throws, but then I'm not sitting here tearing 2D games apart based on Primal Rage, either. 40% damage for a 50/50 breakable, low priority, high is not broken in the least. Good players break throws 50/50, so you're gonna do on average 20% damage for a step/throw. Step into a launcher is almost always a better option, so you don't even see good players doing step throw very often. 2D throws have smaller break windows and hit high and low. I find them considerably more frustrating, but neither are broken. Soul Calibur--a pure button-masher with rounds sometimes stretching out to 30 seconds. You're calling SC, a game that you clearly know nothing about and that I travel to tournaments to play, a pure button-masher. That's pretty close to saying it has no depth, and it's also flat-out completely wrong. The point is that you're calling this guy out on not knowing about 2D games and proving him wrong with advanced tech like cross-ups, and then turning around and doing the exact same thing he's doing with 3D games. Comparing cross-up using 2D players to button mashing 3D scrubs makes absolutely no sense, and it sounds like if you were to write a review of a 3D game, it would look quite similar to this guy's 2D reviews. Probably not with the "2D games should stay where they belong" soapbox silliness, but with the same lack of knowledge.

This has been a fun discussion, but I've definately got to take offense to this. Tekken isn't about ten-hit combos (well strings, actually), and it's pretty obvious that you've never seen the game played well if you associate ten-strings with Tekken at all. No one decent uses them, ever, and real Tekken looks almost nothing like most people's idea of Tekken. SC is also not even close to a pure button masher. It's relatively easy for a tourney game, but it still has a ton to it, although it tends to boil down to a lot of 50/50 mindgames. Still, button mashers never win in either game, and comments like that sound similar to what the reviewer is doing, ie hating on a game without knowledge of how it actually plays. Floaty jumps haven't been in a Namco game since 1996, throws are always breakable in any Namco game and certainly not overpowered, you can stand, crouch and jump offensively and defensively in 3D games, there are ranged attacks (especially in SC, spacing is a huge deal). Differentiation between normal and special moves is a personal preference thing, I personally really don't like it. And although there is a lot of depth in the execution of difficult moves and combos that you generally don't see in 3D games, 3D games have more different moves per character in almost all cases. I do agree that 2D games generally have as much or more depth than 3D games, but again, you sound really biased here, making some of your arguments on things that haven't been in 3D games for half a decade or more.

Street Fighter domination sucks, but still, Iori/Sagat or Vega/Sagat are both hella better than the crap we had last time. Fuck Ken. Vega (claw) (Street Fighter) Sagat (Street Fighter)