JoeDirt

Yeah, you're damn right nothing!

Surprised they saved what are going to be the two best matches on the show to go back to back. (AJ/Petey, XXX/AMW)

Man, they're going to be dehydrated.

Trinity vs. Jacqueline now.

Piper should ask Snuka what it's like to murder somebody.

Don't read that spoilers thread if you don't want to know what's going to happen tonight. Those of you who are ordering...enjoy the show!

Shane Douglas turned on Buff Bagwell, leading to Buff's face turn and a match at BATB 2000. I know the Harris Bros. were heel as Creative Control but I'm almost positive they turned face as well and might have even turned back heel again. I really can't remember. Heels like Sid and Luger were turned immediately at the start of the New Blood angle.

Yep, that's good stuff, Dames. Realistic, interesting...yeah, I like it.

This is a very important one, I think. Keeping in line with the intention of Dames' post here, how would you propose this to Vince without saying explicitly to him that what they're doing currently insults the intelligence and often times makes no sense in order to save yourself from getting fired?

I agree with this one completely. And I like the idea of each show having a completely different look and feel to it. Here's another idea of mine, #9: 9) Use Heat and Velocity more effectively. Doing simple things like showing a clip on RAW where they say "this happened last night on Heat" and having some actual angle development, even if something small, on Heat and Velocity would be huge. Hype the shows on RAW and SD, it would only take ten seconds to do. Also, don't show us a full segment recap on Heat and Velocity. There's no need to show the whole segment when a very quick recap of the important stuff that happened would work fine. Use the extra time to let characters to INTERVIEWS. This would allow lower card guys to work on their mic skills on the smaller shows and once again work on developing more of a character. I would sell this to Vince by telling him to look at Heat and Velocity's current ratings and telling him that trying something like this couldn't hurt, and helping characters get mic time would be benefitial down the road as well.

Here's my small suggestion #8: 8) Stop with the "heel wins a match with a rollup using the tights/ropes for leverage". Finishing moves need to be established for all characters. Once again, it's something the crowd reacts to, something that gets the character over, even if a heel. I swear that heels win 90% of their matches these days with a stupid roll up move instead of an actual finisher.

But it's also twice the costs to put on those two shows, so I don't buy that it was a damn good October for the WWE.

So you're saying you could convince Vince to have FOUR PPVs a year? Let's be realistic here, you'd be fired right then and there!

From DDTDigest, Nitro on 1/17/00: # All the wrestlers gather in the ring. # Conspicuously absent: Eddy Guerrero, Dean Malenko, Perry Saturn, Shane Douglas, Sid, Chris Benoit, Konnan. # Though it does appear to be a midcard-fest. # "Hail To The Chief" brings out Nash and the Harris Boys. # The crowd chants "USA". # Nash talks about the "Sea of underachievers" in the ring. # Nash says it's important that he became WCW commissioner. # Nash says he has goals for everyone in the ring. # Nash says he'd like to give Tenay a personality. # He'd like to give Brian Knobbs a brain. # He'd like to give Abbott a heart. # He'd like to give Smiley courage. # Nash: "Wait a second, I sound like Oz up here."

1) Cut back on the amount of wrestling matches that go two segments. The casual fan doesn't want to watch a 20 minute match on TV, especially with little buildup. I love great wrestling just as much as you guys, but slow, long TV matches aren't the way to bring the fans back. Make the TV matches shorter (though not quite like crash TV with everything 2 minutes, more like 4-6 minutes), with a longer main event (10-15) each show. 2) Going along with #1, with a little less time for each match, this will allow time for more character development. Let's face it, we don't know anything about 90% of the characters in the WWE and have no reason to root for or against them. This has to change. I would propose going down the roster, both RAW and Smackdown, and giving each character a long term plan for the next six months at the very least, if not the next year. Decide where you want to go with characters, what type of character they will play, and then write segments to build that up and get that across to the fans. People will watch wrestling when they care about the characters, like any type of entertainment. 3) Work a little harder to make sure things make sense and don't insult the long time viewer. For example, why should the fans be expected to boo Kurt Angle for shaving the Big Show's head but forget about Show chokeslamming Angle on concrete? Things like that need to be avoided at all costs. The fans aren't as stupid as you think, and giving them a product that is intelligent instead of dumbed down will do great good. 4) Work on establishing CHARACTERS over GIMMICKS. Gimmicks may get a reaction at first, but they are so flimsy it doesn't get the fan to invest in the product long term. People watched back in the day because they cared about Austin, Rock, etc. They booed Vince because he was a great heel boss character, not some flimsy cardboard angry heel. Get rid of all the stupid gimmicks and once again, work on creating a CHARACTER for each guy on the roster. 5) Put talent in positions where they can succeed. If a guy is great in the ring but not on the mic, give him a manager and let the manager do the talking while stressing how great the guy is in the ring. If a guy isn't good in the ring but can talk, utilize that. 6) Do something so that regular TV matches matter. Whether it's a ranking system or keeping track of win/loss records, make it seem more realistic and the fans will respond to that. 7) Bring back King of the Ring, and make the finals of it a RAW vs. Smackdown match each year. More to come when I think of them...

Kidman was a heel during his matches with Hogan, but the New Blood turned on him after he lost at the GAB 2000, I believe, and he went babyface. Torrie Wilson turned on Kidman at GAB 2000 and low blowed him, leading to a Hogan win. I know Horace Hogan turned a bunch over this time too, but I don't exactly know the details.

Kevin Nash was a face at the start of the New Blood angle but was a heel wrestling Booker T for the title a few months later, not sure exactly when he turned.

I love: All Star Extravaganza Round Robin Challenge 2 Death Before Dishonor Wrath of the Racket Battle Lines are Drawn Generation Next World Title Classic Survival of the Fittest Death Before Dishonor 2 Night 2

No he wasn't...but Sting turning face at Mayhem 1999 would count here.

Scott Steiner pretended to be retiring on Nitro, coming out in a wheelchair and giving a tearful promo. He turned heel and joined the nWo. Scott Steiner turned face during the start of the New Blood angle and was Kevin Nash's buddy for a while. Steiner turned heel again after Bash at the Beach 2000 (I think, could be sometime different) and was heel for the rest of his time in WCW.

Okay, I'll add some easy ones: 4) Bret Hart turned heel and joined the reformed nWo the night after Starrcade 1999. 5) Goldberg turned heel and cost Kevin Nash his title match at GAB 2000. 6) Goldberg turned face again after the heel turned failed, sometime soon after BATB 2000, I believe. 7) Bret Hart PRETENDED to turn face for one night on Thunder sometime before Souled Out 2000. 8) Bret Hart turned heel again by the end of the show. 9) Jim Duggan turned heel and joined Team Canada at Fall Brawl 2000 10) Jim Duggan turned back face not too long after that. Okay, I got the ball rolling, now help me out here people.

Anyone ever seen the ECW show? I guess its known for the mixed tag match, where Bill Alfonso bleeds a GUSHER.

Post your thoughts, memories, comments, or anything about these shows below! Ground Zero September 7, 1997 in Louisville, KY Louisville Gardens drawing 4,963 ($82,228) Shown live on PPV (0.45) 1. Brian Pillman pinned Goldust (11:05) to win Marlena for 30 days. 2. Brian Christopher beat Scott Putski (4:40) via countout. 3. Savio Vega beat Crush and Farooq (11:39) in a "triangle" match when he pinned Crush. 4. Max Mini pinned El Torito (9:20). 5. The Headbangers beat The Legion of Doom, Henry & Phineas Godwinn, and Owen Hart & Davey Smith (17:15) in a "fatal four-way" match to win the vacant WWF Tag Title. * The LOD was DQed (9:54). * Thrasher pinned Phineas (12:12). * Mosh pinned Hart (17:15). 6. WWF World Champ Bret Hart beat The Patriot (19:20) via submission. 7. Shawn Michaels NC The Undertaker (16:03). =========================================== Fall Brawl 1997 "WarGames" September 14, 1997 in Winston-Salem, NC Lawrence Joel Coliseum drawing 11,939 ($213,330) Shown live on PPV (0.53) 1. Eddie Guerrero pinned Chris Jericho (17:19) to win the WCW Cruiserweight Title. 2. Rick & Scott Steiner beat Harlem Heat (11:44) when Rick pinned Stevie Ray. 3. WCW World TV Champ Alex Wright pinned Ultimo Dragon (18:43). 4. Jeff Jarrett beat Dean Malenko (14:53) via submission. 5. Wrath & Mortis beat Meng & The Barbarian (12:22) Wrath pinned Meng. 6. The Giant pinned Scott Norton (5:27). 7. Lex Luger & Diamond Dallas Page beat Scott Hall & Randy Savage (10:19) in a "no DQ" match when Luger pinned Hall. 8. Marcus Bagwell, Kevin Nash, Syxx, & Konnan beat Chris Benoit, Steve McMichael, Ric Flair & Curt Hennig (19:37) in a "wargames" match when McMichael submitted. =========================================== As Good As It Gets September 20, 1997 in Philadelphia, PA ECW Arena drawing 1,600 1. Tracey Smothers & Little Guido beat Balls Mahoney & Axl Rotten when Guido pinned Mahoney. 2. Justin Credible pinned Jerry Lynn. 3. Chris Candido pinned Lance Storm. 4. Bam Bam Bigelow beat Spike Dudley. 5. ECW Champ Shane Douglas pinned Phil Lafon. 6. ECW TV Champ Taz pinned Pitbull #2. 7. Sabu NC Sandman. 8. Beulah & Tommy Dreamer beat Bill Alfonso & Rob Van Dam when Beulah pinned Alfonso. 9. New Jack & Kronus beat Buh Buh Ray & D-Von Dudley to win the ECW Tag Title when Kronus pinned D-Von.

Just wanted to add that I'm looking to find cheap tapes of some of the WCW PPVs I never saw: (I want to buy, not trade, unless there's something really specific you want that I just happen to have) Superbrawl 8 Great American Bash 1998 Halloween Havoc 1999 PM me if you can help a brutha out.

Guys about to get fired.