BHK

...... If you're not kidding, then I ask, HOW and WHY?

Sorry to bump, but for those interested, other than the 4 officially televised WWE ones since '96, here are the other known Ironman matches, I just thought some people might find this interesting. (note: found on wrestleview.com which obtained it by Cawthon's History of WWE website) note: spoiler tags have been added ot the hart/flair amd hart/owen Ironmans sincethey are available to download and be seen. WWF @ Chicago, IL - Rosemont Horizon - Aug. 6, 1989 Shawn Michaels & Marty Jannetty vs. Jacques & Raymond Rougeau (marathon match) WWF @ Philadelphia, PA - Spectrum - Aug. 19, 1989 Shawn Michaels & Marty Jannetty defeated Jacques & Raymond Rougeau in sudden death overtime in a 60-minute marathon match WWF @ Boston, MA - Boston Garden - Sept. 9, 1989 Shawn Michaels & Marty Jannetty defeated Jacques & Raymond Rougeau in a 60-minute marathon match, 3 falls to 2; Shawn Michaels clotheslined Jacques to win the deciding fall in overtime WWF @ Boston, MA - Boston Gardens - January 9, 1993 Bret Hart vs. Ric Flair WWF World Champion Bret Hart defeated Ric Flair (w/ Bobby Heenan) in a 60-minute Ironman match 3 falls to 2; fall #1 - Hart pinned Flair with a waist lock into a roll up at 27:17; fall #2 - Flair defeated Hart via submission with the figure-4 and by holding onto the top rope for leverage at 35:00 (during the fall, the referee ordered Heenan backstage); fall #3 - Flair defeated Hart via submission with the figure-4 and by holding onto the bottom rope for leverage at 37:40; fall #4 - Hart defeated Flair via submission with the Sharpshooter at 55:03; fall #5 - Hart pinned Flair by reversing a figure-4 attempt into an inside cradle at 59:42 as Flair attempted the figure-4 (at the beginning of the fall, Heenan returned to the ring to hand Flair a pair of brass knuckles - which ended up being used on the champion - before once again being ejected from ringside) WWF @ East Rutherford, NJ - Meadowlands - July 8, 1994 WWF World Champion Bret Hart defeated Owen Hart in a 60-minute Ironman match, 3 falls to 2 WWF @ Los Angeles, CA - Great Western Forum - July 29, 1994 WWF World Champion Bret Hart defeated Owen Hart in sudden death of a 60-minute Ironman match, 2 falls to 1 WWF @ Philadelphia, PA - Spectrum - August 6, 1994 WWF World Champion Bret Hart defeated Owen Hart in a 60-minute Ironman match, 2 falls to 1

So he carried Holly to a decent match then? Interesting.

So I went to Raw yesterday, and I for one enjoyed the Iron Man match. I put it at about ***1/4 upon first viewing. I have no idea when it went to commerical, but I'd say the match was what I tohught it was going to be going in. Which was a potential ***** that fell short of what both guys can do. Still an enjoyable match, though. Pre-Raw notes: nothing much really went down at all, the t-shirt guy came out, national anthem, etc. The guy next to me spent $285 on two t-shirts(eddie and Eugene) and a deluxe replica World Heavyweight Title. The guys No one in the crowd popped for the more old school images during the History of WWE desire video, which was disappointing. Biggest pops during the video: 1. Hogan 2. Bret 3. Austin/Rock 4. Shawn Michaels 5. LOD The live crowd didn't really get much into the match, however. There were "here we go steelers" cahnts after only 10 minutes. Granted, the first 10-15 minutes were slower than the rest. They did, however, give a good reaction for the following: Sharpshooter attempts on Triple H (which caused the guys behind me to break into a "that's Bret's move" chant) All the tap outs(which elicted very large "Tap!tap!tap!" chants during the submission moves and "you tapped out! you tapped out!" chants faterwards) The Eugene run in(the place went NUTS for this. Then he busted out the stunner and the orck bottom and even I marked for that) Overall, though, I'd say that the crowd wasn't that receptive to the match. Not the best place to hold it, but heyt, I'm glad I got to see it live Oh, for those wondering, I do not have fan cam of the Ironman. We popped for Kamala, but then totally booed the Diva search segment out of the building. Nice heat for the battle Royal ending sequence also. Anyway, on to the match results. Dark match: Rodney Mack vs. "local" jobber Jobber announced as from Pittsburgh, PA to make him the defacto face. (I'm assuming he wasn't. maybe he was) Mack wins with a powerslam off the ropes. Sunday Night Heat Coach and Snow come out for commentarty. Some nice "we want head chants form the crowd" our section(I was in the seventh row on the floor in front of the commentators) had a nice "avatar" chant going on. Val Venis vs. Tyson Tomko (w/trish, who is VERY attractive in person in my opinion) Finish: Tomko wins with the big boot after Trish hits Venis from behind Rosey(w/ The Hurricane) vs. Robert Conway(w/Sylvian) Major heat for Conway. lots of USA chants. Decent pop for Rosey. Finish: Rosey wins with a fall down spalsh after distraction by both sides partners Tajiri/Rhyno vs. Rorwy and Corby McCalister The two jobbers came out dressed like the Headbangers. This was my favorite match of the Heat matches. I was really able to get into Tajiri and Rhyno, I think they work well together. Finish: Rhyno gets the pinall after a buzzsaw stungun.(Rhyno gave the guy a stun gun on the top rope and then while he was there Tajiri gave him this VICIOUS looking kick to the face. Then the Gore. Pretty sweet finish I thought..) Nidia/Victoria vs. Jazz/Molly holly Standard women's tag match. Not much else to say. Finish: Jazz and Molly get the win after Stevie Richards(which elicited some bWo chants) distracted Victoria. note: no star ratings were given becasue all matches were your standard 1/2*-** Heat fare. Nothing too great, but nothing offensive, either. If you're really into the Tajiri/Rhyno team as of late, I'd watch to see if their match makes the show. Other than that, just your standard B-show fare. post-show notes: I didn't stick around for TOO long post-show as I wanted to beat traffic. Benoit posed for with the title for a bit as Eugene posed on the ramp and pointed at Bnoit, nice little crowd popping moment there. Benoit's win got quite the large pop, and the crowd seemed pretty into the post-match celebration as well. Also, Batista, Tomko, and Kane are absolutely HUGE up close. Especially big Dave. Overall, a good show. I got to see a decent Ironman, when my biggest fear was that Hunter/Benoit would totally bomb and be something like **. I got a ***+ match from them, however, so I was satisfied. I probably won't be going to another live event for a while(my last one as pre-brand split) so this was a nice one to go out on for now. Edit: fixed some stuff and added some stuff. ModNote: Fixed your spoiler tags

interesting. I'm assuming the match wasn't very good?

The WWE champion wrestles on Velocity and not Smackdown... W...T...F

A "first thing on the show" pop. it was probably some editing also, as the pop wasn't that great. Definitely not truth though. The loudest noise we made all night by far was for Eugene, followed by Benoit putting on the sharshooter/Triple H tapping. Edit: As for the other Diva segment, we popped for kamala, and then the crowd either booed like crazy or was totally apathetic for the rest of the segment.....Carmella got a small pop though, sadly. edit: thanks HFP, I got it now.

the Owen hart tribute match is on the Benoit DVD, therefore I don't plan on ever acknowledging Bret's WCW run again, ever. The way they misused him was criminal. It was jsut awful.

*marks out for SS96 in dvd quality* Best.DVD.Ever.

Now I gotta ask you BHK cuz i went for a cigarette during this one (I would have stuck around had I not had to put up with Molly wearing the wig) But in the Finish was it intentional? Or was it by mistake? Just curious if you could shed some light on it cuz I came in after the fact. It was definitely confrontational in nature.

janetty was in WCW? When? how? why?

haha. What was your section/row/seat#? Edit: we should probably move this to PM's or something to keep the thread on topic.

Actually, I was right by the guys that started the you Screwed Bret chant. I didn't catch Earl's reaciton though. That's pretty funny. In a way it's revenge, becasue I'm quite the large Bret mark, but also sometimes I wish people would just forget Montreal and move on.

I actually REALLY like this idea. The idea of Hunter having a "phantom" title reign by winning the title at the 10:00 spot, and then having a re-match as the 2nd houir main event, I'd be all for that.

No, obviously, it's win a date with Kurt Angle.

Why is half the preview spent talking about what happened on last week's show? I could understand it if they were setting up a Edge/Orton rematch, but to use it as a segue to the Iron Man match? Because that's not the official preview, the official one hasn't been posted yet. I'm sure DerangedHermit will update it when it is posted. and yes, recoding the entire match via fancam and selling it off is QUITE the temptation. Edit: I stand corrected, that is the official preview.

I can see where you're coming from, except I won't have commericals, and my biggest concern is that this turns into Brock/Angle. in other words, a possible ***** match turning into an hour long ***(or worse?) match that sould have ended sooner.

91. The entire nwo b-team 92. Having, at one point, over 100 wrestlers under contract at once. 93.Not creating and booking well long term multi-person feuds and using Wargames as the huge blowoff. 94. Arn Anderson. Psycho Sid. Scissors. 95. Putting Loch Ness on PPV against....the Giant. 96. not re-creating the Hart Foundation once Bret jumpred..

I actually liked that gimmick. In a "it's so bad it's good" kind of way.

*ahem* \/

Well, I've seen all 3 Ironman matches, and I wasn't bored with any of them, personally. However, I've also seen Micahels/HHH from Badd Blood and that match DID bor me. It should ahve ended around the 25 minute mark, so I can understand your paranoia. however, if Benoit and Trips are both really motivated, I can't see why I wouldn't be entertained. I personally enjoy long matches, but that coul;d just be me. If the pacing is proper, the transitions are smooth, and they can work the crowd well, I can't see the match boring me, or anyone else for that matter.

When it comes to Power rangers, it's definitely all about the original six in Mighty Morphin Power Rangers.. Just sayin.

The only really glaring fault I can see with the Ironman at this point is this: what ending exactly do they plan on pulling off? We've already had: Bret/HBK: The tie at the end that sends the match into overtime. Rock/HHH: 3rd wrestler interferes at the end of the match that causes the DQ finish, inadvertently costing the face the title Angle Brock: Wrestler hangs on at last second while in other Wrester's finisher as time expire to stay up by one fall. off the top of my head, I can't think of any NEW finishes. The most likely route I see them going is recycling the Rock/HHH finish. Unless they forget that Bret/Michaels ever happened and so they declare it a "tie" and make the title vacant. Of course, WWE would never ever go against or forget past history, especially its own, right? .... RIGHT?

Blasted, and I was looking forward to that Raw Is Igloo thread title I was going to make. Curse you DerangeHermit Desired Iron Man outcome: Benoit makes Triple H tap, ending the feud and setting up Benoit/Jericho for SS. Likely Iron Man outcome: Euguene interferes and either turns heel and costs Benoit the title, or "accidentally" hits Benoit and saves the heel turn for later. Either way, it sets up HHH/Orton or HHH/Edge for SummerSlam. I'm praying that they can hitt **** with this, there's no real reason they shouldn't be able to. I'll be at the show, look for Heat taping results/anything extra around tuesday morning or so from me.

If he's as annoying as Simmons or "Muffy"(wasn't that her name? Steph's PT that lasted for like two weeks) then he's more likely to get X-Pac heat than real heat.