Cheech Tremendous

Correct. Bonuses are added to base salary in the formula. Therefore, guys who just got new contracts have the benefit of the signing bonus added in (Big Ben's was $25 million this year). If you were to do a list with AAV, it would look a lot different. But that would be equally misleading, as most contracts are terminated by the team long before they actually end. Didn't catch the JaMarcus as WR thing. I just c/p the list.

This is really interesting. It is a list of the 20 highest paid players in the NFL. 1. QB Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh $ 27,701,920 2. DE Jared Allen, Minnesota $ 21,119,256 3. WR Larry Fitzgerald, Arizona $ 17,103,480 4. WR JaMarcus Russell, Oakland $ 16,872,400 5. RB Michael Turner, Atlanta $ 16,003,840 6. G Chris Snee, N.Y. Giants $ 14,890,000 7. CB Asante Samuel, Philadelphia $ 14,145,000 8. WR Randy Moss, New England $ 14,006,720 9. T Flozell Adams, Dallas $ 14,005,760 10 .DT Tommy Kelly, Oakland $ 13,978,480 11. WR Terrell Owens, Dallas $ 13,731,560 12. WR Bernard Berrian, Minnesota $ 13,705,000 13. T Michael Roos, Tennessee $ 13,505,520 14. C Jeff Faine, Tampa Bay $ 13,105,760 15. DE Will Smith, New Orleans $ 12,950,000 16. QB Tony Romo, Dallas $ 12,886,600 17. G Travelle Wharton, Carolina $ 12,850,000 18. DE Antwan Odom, Cincinnati $ 12,800,000 19. CB Terence Newman, Dallas $ 12,611,240 20. RB Marion Barber, Dallas $ 12,522,400 List courtesy of USA Today.

One of the major statheads over at SOSH converted all the +/- data into runs. He then ranked the outfielders based on their value above average. Here's how the list shakes up (first column is raw +/-, second converts to runs prevented): 1. Carl Crawford +24 / +22 runs / 150 G 2. Franklin Gutierrez +29 / +21 3. Carlos Gomez +32 / +17 4. Alex Rios +26 / +15 5. Jacoby Ellsbury +22 / +13 6. Carlos Gonzalez +10 / +11 7. Denard Span +9 / +8 8. Luke Scott +12 / +8 9. Nick Markakis +12 / +7 10. Johnny Damon +4 / +4 11. Melky Cabrera +6 / +3 12. Emil Brown +2/ +3 13. Adam Jones +3 / +3 14. Ryan Sweeney +5 / +3 15. Ichiro Suzuki +3 / +1 16. Grady Sizemore +7 / +1 17. Gabe Gross 0 / +1 18. Garret Anderson +1 / 0 19. David DeJesus 0 / 0 20. B.J. Upton -9 / -1 21. Marlon Byrd 0 / -1 22. Franklin Francisco 0 / -2 23. Xavier Nady -2 / -2 24. Coco Crisp -2 / -2 25. Torii Hunter -5 / -4

AMERICAN LEAGUE GOLD GLOVES P- Mike Mussina C- Joe Mauer 1st - Carlos Pena 2nd - Dustin Pedroia 3rd - Adrian Beltre SS - Michael Young OF - Torii Hunter, Grady Sizemore, Ichiro Michalel Young? Really? The three outfielders aren't egregiously bad, but I'd say that all three are below average.

Since no one has mentioned it, it should be pointed out that Hall would have received $16 million in bonus money had he made it through the season. The Raiders rightly figured out that it was better to waste $8 million on someone who wasn't contributing than $24 million. I don't know what you guys were watching if you think Hall was having a decent year. He wasn't. It was retarded that they gave up a second round pick for him. It was stupid to give him a monstrous contract. But cutting the guy now is not a bad move.

Aren't most of our threads misogynistic? This seems redundant.

Okay, I'm sorry, but DeAngelo Hall sucks. If you want to attribute that to being in a bad organization go ahead, but he wasn't that good in Atlanta and he's only regressed in Oakland. Cutting him isn't a bad move; it was signing him in the first place. This isn't me just talking out of my ass because I'm a Raiders fan either. Football Outsiders has him rated as the second worst corner in the league. Maybe that's because he's getting thrown at more by being across from Asomugha, but scouting reports continually indicate that Hall can't figure out a defensive system. He "floats", which allows him to occasionally get big plays but more often than not ends up with him getting burned. Perhaps some other organization can unlock his talent, but good luck. I just don't see it.

GROUP A "Sold To The Highest Bidder" by Electric Prunes vs "Build me up Buttercup" by The Foundations "Ring Of Fire" by Johnny Cash vs "Psycho" by The Sonics "8 Miles High" by the Byrds vs "Venus" by Shocking Blue "I Can't Explain" by The Who vs "Respect" by Aretha Franklin "Hang On Sloopy" by The McCoys vs "Return to Sender" by Elvis Presley "Itchycoo Park" byThe Small Faces vs "Cupid" by Sam Cooke "Sunshine Of Your Love" by Cream vs "Hair" by The Cowsills "Suspicious Minds" by Elvis Presley vs "She's Not There" by The Zombies "The House Of The Rising Sun" by the Animals vs "Try a Little Tenderness" by Otis Redding "Remember (Walkin' In The Sand)" by The Shangri-Las vs "Sounds of Silence" by Simon and Garfunkle "Bonnie and Clyde" by Serge Gainsbourg & Brigitte Bardot vs "Are You Lonesome Tonight?" by Elvis Presley "She Loves You" by The Beatles vs "Handy Man" by Jimmy Jones "I Heard it Through the Grapevine" by Marvin Gaye vs "Waterloo Sunset" by The Kinks "Incense and Peppermints" by Strawberry Alarm Clock vs "Mr. Tambourine Man" by Bob Dylan "Good Vibrations" by Beach Boys vs "Monkey Man" by The Rolling Stones (Tough matchup... these might be my two favorites on the list) "Under the Boardwalk" by The Drifters vs "Folsom Prison Blues" by Johnny Cash GROUP B "Eight Days A Week" by The Beatles vs "Surf City" by Jan and Dean "Dance to the Music" by Sly & the Family Stone vs "Alone Again Or" by Love "Unchain My Heart" by Ray Charles vs "My Way" by Frank Sinatra "Hey Jude" by The Beatles vs "Crying" by Roy Orbison "It Ain't Me Babe" by Bob Dylan vs "My Girl" by The Temptations "In Dreams" by Roy Orbison vs "You Really Got Me" by The Kinks "For What It's Worth" by Buffalo Springfield vs "Dazed and Confused" by Led Zeppelin "Sloop John B" by Beach Boys vs "Fortunate Son" by Creedence Clearwater Revival "Just Dropped In (To See What Condition My Condition Was In" by The First Edition vs "I Fought The Law" by The Bobby Fuller Four "A Day in the Life" by The Beatles vs "Hello Goodbye" by The Beatles "Aquarius/Let The Sunshine In" by the 5th Dimension vs "Stand By Me" by Ben E. King "Tous Les Garcons et Les Filles" by Francoisie Hardy vs "Visions of Johanna" by Bob Dylan "Daydream Believer" by The Monkees vs "Happy Together" by The Turtles "MacArthur Park" by Richard Harris vs "Jumpin Jack Flash" by The Rolling Stones "Get Together" by The Youngbloods vs "Brown Eyed Girl" by Van Morrison "You Can't Hurry Love" by The Supremes vs "A Change Is Gonna Come" by Sam Cooke GROUP C "Space Oddity" by David Bowie vs "Unchained Melody" by Righteous Brothers "Down In The Boondocks" by Billy Joe Royal vs "Oh, Pretty Woman" by Roy Orbison "Reflections" by The Supremes vs "Can't Help Falling In Love" by Elvis Presley "Only The Lonely" by Roy Orbison vs "The Witch" by The Sonics "Then He Kissed Me" by The Crystals vs "Dark End of the Street" by James Carr "Sure Nuff 'N Yes I Do" by Captain Beefheart and his Magic Band vs "Street Fighting Man" by The Rolling Stones "Crimson and Clover" by Tommy James and the Shondells vs "Hurdy Gurdy Man" by Donovan "My Generation" by The Who vs "Runaway" by Del Shannon "Gloria" by Them vs "Don't Worry Baby" by The Beach Boys "Purple Haze" by The Jimi Hendriz Expierence vs "All Along the Watchtower" by Bob Dylan "The Weight" by The Band vs "Georgia on My Mind" by Ray Charles "Israelites" by Desmond Dekker vs "Bad Moon Rising" by Creedence Clearwater Revival "I Get Around" by The Beach Boys vs "Time of The Season" by The Zombies "Heroin" by The Velvete Underground vs "Whiter Shade of Pale" by Procol Harum "God Only Knows" by The Beach Boys vs "Out in the Streets" byThe Shangri Las "Viva Las Vegas" by Elvis Presley vs "Reach Out, I'll Be There" by The Four Tops GROUP D "Walk Away Renee" by The Left Bank vs "Venus in Furs" by The Velvet Underground "Catch The Wind" by Donovan vs "In The Year 2525" by Zager and Evans "I Want You Back" by the Jackson 5 vs "California Dreamin'" " Mamas and the Papas "Tears of a Clown" by Smokey Robinson & the Miracles vs "(I Know) I'm Losing You" by The Temptations "Green Onions" by Booker T. and the MGs vs "In The Midnight Hour" by Wilson Pickett "I Was Made To Love Her" by Stevie Wonder vs "Turn, Turn, Turn" by The Birds "God Bless the Child" by Blood, Sweat, & Tears vs "Like a Rolling Stone" by Bob Dylan "(Sittin' On) The Dock of the Bay" by Otis Redding vs "Sealed With A Kiss" by Brian Hyland "21st Century Schizoid Man" by King Crimson vs "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down" by The Band "Gimme Shelter" by Rolling Stones vs "Suite/Judy Blue Eyes" by Crosby, Stills, and Nash "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag" by James Brown vs "Spanish Flea" by Herb Alpert "Break on Through" by The Doors vs "Ain't No Mountain High Enough by Marvin Gaye & Tammi Terrell "Norwegian Wood" by Beatles vs "Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye" by Steam "Natural Born Boogie" by Humble Pie vs "Scarborough Fair" by Simon & Garfunkel "What a Wonderful World" by Louis Armstrong vs "Be My Baby" by The Ronettes "Come See About Me" by The Supremes vs "Arnold Layne" by Pink Floyd

I think it's because Nate McClouth has a really good arm, which tends to get very overvalued in people's analysis of outfield defense. The problem is that evaluating defense is really tricky if you aren't watching every play of every game, and the good defensive stats out there (like +/-) aren't that well known or understood yet. Basically, to win a Gold Glove you have to be noticed, which in the ends up rewarding the guys who either hit the best, or make the fanciest looking plays. Neither one has much to do with defensive ability. It's a really flawed system.

Baseball Prospectus' Internet Baseball Awards (NL Edition) NL MVP: Albert Pujols 1. Albert Pujols 1233 97 38 17 5 7 4 2 2 1 1406 18650 2. Hanley Ramirez 26 454 191 164 105 76 46 38 14 15 1129 8477 3. Lance Berkman 14 223 195 167 159 89 74 46 31 26 1024 6853 4. Chase Utley 21 105 196 155 149 101 85 54 45 16 927 5899 5. David Wright 10 93 163 152 171 118 104 63 50 28 952 5694 6. Chipper Jones 14 70 131 128 133 115 81 68 47 28 815 4793 7. Ryan Howard 53 116 75 80 64 44 38 28 35 24 557 3880 8. Manny Ramirez 32 63 72 65 79 50 40 42 49 51 543 3205 9. Tim Lincecum 5 33 61 77 94 61 70 50 44 22 517 2803 10. Ryan Braun 7 49 61 94 55 53 56 44 37 22 478 2732 NL Cy Young: Tim Lincecum 1. Tim Lincecum 955 335 56 15 4 1365 12224 2. Johan Santana 273 619 184 71 22 1169 8218 3. C.C. Sabathia 122 155 281 159 128 845 4315 NL Rookie of the Year: Geovany Soto 1. Geovany Soto 1178 63 17 1258 6096 2. Joey Votto 74 618 242 934 2466 3. Jair Jurrjens 26 302 324 652 1360 NL Manager of the Year: Lou Piniella 1. Lou Piniella 389 283 176 848 2970 2. Charlie Manuel 265 273 153 691 2297 3. Joe Torre 257 236 174 667 2167 Full results can be found here: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8282

Dodgers declined their option on Brad Penny. He could be a great low-cost, high reward pick-up for a pitching starved team this offseason.

NL Gold Glove winners: P Greg Maddux, Dodgers C Yadier Molina, Cardinals 1B Adrian Gonzalez, Padres 2B Brandon Phillips, Reds 3B David Wright, Mets SS Jimmy Rollins, Phillies OF Nate McLouth, Pirates; Carlos Beltran, Mets; Shane Victorino, Phillies Most of these look okay, with the exception of McClouth. He's one of the worst centerfielders in the game.

Boras said that Varitek has earned a comparable deal to the one Posada signed last year (4 years, $52 million). He'll be lucky to get 1/4 that amount. Boras can say whatever he wants about Manny, Tek and Lowe. The market will determine what they get. As for the Martin rumor, I've heard that one too. I just don't believe that it can be true. If he's really available, I'd encourage the Sox to go all in. I don't know what the cost would be (Youks? Buchholz?), but they should pay it. C'mon, we all know that Boras negotiated the actual contract. The media angle was just that, a media angle. This notion that he was left out of the meetings between Yankee management and A-Rod is totally false. The actual language was carved out by Boras.

I absolutely picked Chicago to finish ahead of Minnesota (read: http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/index.php?...hl=predictions), as did most everyone else. Most people expected Minnesota to be really bad, like last place bad after they traded Santana. The Sox overperformed expectations too, but let's not change history based on the way things ended up. Gardenhire was able to work five inexperienced pitchers into a capable rotation and turned underperforming prospect Carlos Gomez into a legit centerfielder. Nothing against Ozzie, but Ron Gardenhire did an excellent job with a really mediocre team this year.

Tie goes to La Parka.

Expect them to also overlook that La Parka took the all-important TSM vote.

We've tried this on multiple occasions to no avail. The last attempt in 2007 sputtered out before the nominations even finished. Well, not this time because Cheech is steering the ship. We are going to actually immortalize our favorite posters. Besides, it will kill some time between now and the Poster Tournament '09~! Rules are simple: 1. Nominate up to 10 individuals. The five posters receiving the most nominations will then be voted on individually. A 75% approval is necessary for enshrinement. 2. Posters have to have been registered three years, or have 5,000 posts to qualify. No rookies here. 3. Banned posters are not allowed. You fail at TSM, you fail at the Hall. In many sports there is a debate as to which hat or jersey the player will wear once he enters the Hall. I'd encourage you to suggest which folder your nominee should represent in the Hall. Thread is open until next Monday. Make us proud.

Credibility gone, thread over. Thanks for playing.

Might as well use this thread for actual winners too. I didn't bother to look up the schedule for announcements, but they should be starting any day now. In the mean time, Baseball Prospectus is rolling out the winners of their Internet Baseball Awards. These are voted on by those who frequent the site. American League winners were announced today. One would presume that the NL will come tomorrow. AL MVP : Dustin Pedroia 1. Dustin Pedroia 408 319 247 154 136 58 35 18 11 4 1390 12963 2. Joe Mauer 423 240 163 138 102 43 34 25 10 6 1184 11416 3. Grady Sizemore 160 187 176 154 112 76 57 38 28 12 1000 7871 4. Alex Rodriguez 122 130 157 151 153 115 82 57 34 33 1034 7284 5. Cliff Lee 131 123 138 132 113 69 66 50 29 13 864 6477 6. Kevin Youkilis 93 122 124 134 140 111 86 58 58 32 958 6391 7. Carlos Quentin 91 106 140 115 134 103 63 76 66 40 934 6124 8. Josh Hamilton 54 69 79 123 137 137 143 116 86 58 1002 5527 9. Justin Morneau 40 105 108 122 105 67 78 72 38 32 767 4824 10. Roy Halladay 16 75 62 91 120 68 61 71 46 20 630 3661 AL Cy Young: Cliff Lee 1. Cliff Lee 1164 281 24 7 2 1478 13750 2. Roy Halladay 292 977 92 19 7 1387 10283 3. Jon Lester 16 52 547 141 71 827 3753 AL Rookie of the Year: Evan Longoria 1. Evan Longoria 1264 118 11 1393 6685 2. Alexei Ramirez 51 359 210 620 1542 3. Mike Aviles 50 334 191 575 1443 AL Manager of the Year: Joe Maddon 1. Joe Maddon 1202 103 16 1321 6335 2. Ron Gardenhire 52 417 160 629 1671 3. Terry Francona 47 267 211 525 1247 Full article can be found here: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8281

Finally, a candidate who cares about the real issues.

That was the idea, but no one did it in the nominations thread and they aren't really doing it here. Go nuts.

Aww, I see. Don't worry EHME, there's always next year. Besides, you have your own Hall.

It's just that I only counted it as 3/5 of an actual vote. The correct answer was '80%'. A half-black/math joke? C'mon, you can do better.

I counted your vote EHME. It's just that I only counted it as 3/5 of an actual vote.

It will be a dirty, ill-fitting New Jersey Nets hat with the 1980s logo.