Cheech Tremendous

It would have been stupid for Triple H to pin Bret at that time, Bret leaving or not. This was long before the world champion did non-title jobs on free TV. Being pinned by Hunter would have hurt Bret a lot more than losing to the Patriot. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Bret got the finish changed because he felt it made no sense to have Hunter beat him clean if it wasn't going to lead to anything. And it wasn't going to lead to anything; there would be no program or feud between the two, so Bret's decision made total business sense. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It DIDN'T make sense for him to do the job - that's the whole point. It was my understanding that they pitched ideas like this, Bulldog's loss in the UK, and the three proposed jobs to Michaels in order to show that the writing was on the wall and they didn't want Bret anymore.

Well, there's your problem. The guy is funny, but an Isiah and Knick hater, so any move Isiah will make, will be bashed. I really don't get how trading a 33 PF in Kurt Thomas for two guys who haven't even hit their prime, one of them busting ass in the Summer League, really is a bad trade. But it was a trade the Knicks made, so it's bad! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They have a payroll of $100 million and won what, all of 33 games last year? He just spent $30 million on a guy who averages 4 points and 3 rebounds a game! People bash Isiah because he makes stupid moves all the time. He's been there like two years now and hasn't made one deal that has improved the team or their cap situation. So now he deals his only reliable big man for an undersized point and another who duplicates what you already have and we are supposed to praise him? Give me a break. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Kurt Thomas wasn't going to be here when we do make a run at the title, so why not get rid of him for youth? What Isiah has done is built a young foundation for the future. Something we didn't have here with Layden. Frye is 22, Lee is 22, Robinson is 21, Q-Rich is 25, Crawford is 24, Sweetney is 23 (was here before Isiah, only one), Marbury 28, Ariza at 20, and Jackie Butler at 20. That's 9 players. 9. And that's the core. So yes, we now have something to look forward to. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's nice that you look at those guys as the core, but I don't think that it's a stretch to say those 9 you mentioned aren't exactly a playoff group. There is some youth there, but none of them have shown the ability to carry a team to next level. The problem is you are still on the hook for Allan Houston (who will be released), Tim Thomas, Penny Hardaway, Malik Rose and Jerome Williams for the next couple years and will have no room to make moves that can get you to the next level. This isn't exactly a situation like in Boston where you have the core, the experience and future cap room to work with. I'm not trying to pick a fight here. I am just trying to illustrate that Thomas hasn't really done anything except traded good role players for unproven youth and bad contracts.

Well, there's your problem. The guy is funny, but an Isiah and Knick hater, so any move Isiah will make, will be bashed. I really don't get how trading a 33 PF in Kurt Thomas for two guys who haven't even hit their prime, one of them busting ass in the Summer League, really is a bad trade. But it was a trade the Knicks made, so it's bad! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They have a payroll of $100 million and won what, all of 33 games last year? He just spent $30 million on a guy who averages 4 points and 3 rebounds a game! People bash Isiah because he makes stupid moves all the time. He's been there like two years now and hasn't made one deal that has improved the team or their cap situation. So now he deals his only reliable big man for an undersized point and another who duplicates what you already have and we are supposed to praise him? Give me a break.

Seriously, Thomas is a freaking idiot. I'm not even a Knicks fan, but I think it would be great for the league to have a decent team in New York. I don't even think that this is a remote possibility with the team they are looking to put out on the floor. I subsribe to the Bill Simmons theory that if this guy was in your fantasy league you'd stop inviting him because it would be too easy to take his money. And major props to Dangerous A for posting the insider stuff. I love hearing all these rumors and such.

Probably would have been interference by Shanw leading to the pin, to build heat for Survivor Series I would think. Anyhow I have the Livewire episode the week after this on tape and it shows recaps of that RAW. Also had Kane destroying Matt and Jeff Hardy (then just jobbers) while they were waiting for their match in the ring. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Although my memory is a littly hazy on this, I believe there was some internal knowledge that Bret was either already leaving or being asked to leave, so might as well get some jobs out of him while still possible. Bret's refusal to put over Hunter here also fueled the fire that he wasn't going to job the belt on the way out like he said he would.

He is very over and does sell a ton of merchandise. For those reasons, I can't fault the WWE for taking the chance at making him the guy. However, you know who else was way over and sold a ton of merchandise, but had a ridiculous gimmick and couldn't work.... the Ultimate Warrior, who bombed big time as champ. If you ever have time, check out the message boards at Wrestling Classics and see how many long time fans tuned out for good because of his run. Overall, they just need to be careful with a champion like this who can be so polarizing. Remember the pop Christian got when he called Cena "Marky Mark"? That's not a good sign.

I might be wrong - and I don't like rap that much, so really can't judge for myself with any real accuracy - but I thought that he was considered remotely talented? Certainly not comparale to PN News and his cartoonish raps. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, the PN News comparison was probably a little harsh. I still wouldn't call his rapping good by any stretch. Passable, maybe.

Just having spots that can pop a crowd mean nothing unless you know how to work them into the context of the match. I'll be the first to admit I haven't watched a ton of his work, but it often seems like the FU will come out of nowhere, or there will be a bunch of boring restholds followed by one of his "signature" moves. It would make more sense if he knew when and where to use these moves in order to keep the crowd interested in the match, instead of just waithing for the recognizable spots. So Cena portrays a rapper? Know who else did? PN News. Van Hammer was supposed to be a heavy metal guitarist. Did anyone want these guys to be world champ? So he may not be Jamie Kennedy from Malibu's Most Wanted (Scotty II Hotty might though), but the gimmick is still ridiculous. I don't think he has to be from the hood or have been shot to be a rapper. It's just that anyone who respects that genre of music at all can realize how much he sucks and how ridiculous the whole thing comes off. Does Cena have charisma? Yes. Can he work the mic? Yes. Does he, in his current gimmick, make me change the channel every time he is on? Yes. That shouldn't be the reaction from a life-long WWE fan who puts up with all their crap.

But it's so stupid, I think that people want to think there is a deeper meaning. I'm a smart guy and I didn't know what the hell he was talking about. And at the risk of starting a war with many on this board, I have to say.... how in the hell is this guy over and why is he WWE champion?! I've reserved comment for a while because the guy was on Smackdown and I rarely catch the show, but now I have seem him a few times on Raw and literally can't stand a thing he does. The guy is absolutely terrible in the ring. And not terrible in that he relies too heavily on spots to pop the crowd,, or has a weak looking finisher. He just literally looks like he has no idea what he's doing in there. There is no fluidity to his movement, the matches have no reliance on psychology and he blows spots all the time. His look is beyond awful. He doesn't look street or thug... he looks like the wiggers you see at the mall who have no idea how ridiculous they look. I don't think anything he does is edgey. In fact it's a ridiculous gimmick and its the sort of thing that makes me embarrassed when I show a non-fan. Furthermore, he's way overrated on the mic. Although I think he can talk, nothing he says makes me want to pay to see him and none of it gets over the feud or the guy he's working with. He relies too much on the gay bashing and street talk. Now if you think I'm wrong, enlighten me.

What's everyone's problem with Max (curiosity, not flaming). I know he can be a little obnoxious from time to time, but he seemed to be one of the few talking heads who actually knew his shit. He subbed a few weeks back on for Dan on the Dan Patrick Show, and did a fantastic job, in my opinion.

Hey, could someone please post the latest rumors from ESPN Insider. I love reading those things. It would be greatly appreciated.

Can someone please explain this new Allan Houston rule to me. I keep hearing about guys like Michael Finley getting cut because of it. How does it work? What are the cap implications? Who is in danger?

Actually the fifth amendment ensures that they *can* take property for public use, provided that they give just compensation. Just compensation has come to mean a "fair market value." Now what gets interpreted as FMV by the state can be much different than that of the owner. To play devil's advocate here to the previous posts, the argument being made by local governments is that they do not have sufficient funds being obtained from local taxes. The decreasing amount of available land for commercial use has a direct effect on the amount of tax revenues that can be received. Therefore, it is to the benefit of a local community to seize residential property and convert it to a commercial use, which in general has a higher tax burden. I'm not saying I necessarily support this decision, but I think it is necessary to defend their point of view. I work as a commercial real estate appraiser, and have worked on numerous cases in which the government has taken people's properties. I'd be willing to elaborate if anyone has questions on how this decision will likely play out.

Yeah but I'm pretty sure that was for the overrun. The Rock-Mankind segment was the highest in the context of the regular two-hour show.

I believe he was saying that the Pistons beat a two-time conference champ (Nets), team with best record (Pacers) and a team with 4 Hall of Famers (Lakers). That's a nice run I would say.

I'm surprised that everyone gets so worked up over these firings. In the long run, none of these people really mean anything to the product. Turning over the roster is a way to keep things fresh. Granted, the next crop of superstars coming up don't look all that promising, but we'll never know what they can do until they get the opportunity. I say they might as well cut Stevie Richards, Val Venis, Hurricane, Rosey, Bob Holly, Billy Kidman, Dawn Marie, Spike Dudley and probably a few others that I can't remember right now. These people have had plenty of time on the main roster without really contributing that much. Let them move on and work TNA or the indies, and let some of those rotting in OVW get a shot.

Thanks... that's awesome. That image has been haunting me for years.

But, none of those teams have won the World Series. Don't you have to have at least 1 championship, to be considered a dynasty, or in this case of continuation of one? I don't think you have to win the series to be considered a dynasty. I think in a few years, with a little hindsight, the Braves winning 13 straight pennants will be considered a dynasty.

It was from one of the Piper / Flair cage matches held between Rumble 92 and WrestleMania. No clue about the location (they had more than a dozen of those matches) but it was most likely one of the IC champion vs. world champion non-title matches. Thanks. I figured that it was from around this time. It was just really weird seeing prominent pics of Piper with the belt, seeing as though he never won it.

Well from 1972 to 1987 it was 1.000%, right?

In the mid-90s, WWF magazine had advertisements for a special issue they were doing on cage matches. I seem to remember the picture for the advertisement had Roddy Piper next to one of the old blue-bar cages holding the WWF winged eagle belt. Does anyone remember these ads, or when this even took place? I'm figuring it was something during Flair's run with the belt, but I've never been able to figure it out. I swear I'm not losing my mind.

I know that this guy had some bad runs as a booker, but damn if he doesn't seem more in touch than just about anyone in the business.

I am so sick of hearing this argument. Take a .275/25/80 hitter for example. Say this player takes steroids, beefs up, and adds some power to his game. Now maybe once every ten games, one of those outfield flyballs ends up over the fence. You now have a .300/40/120 hitter. That kind of difference takes you from middle of the pack to elite in baseball. This isn't anything scientific, but it shows that steroids can change the complexion of the game.

LoL. After skimming through that I did not notice many (if any) matches with less than *** ratings. Seeing that the site is a list of WCW matches that Meltzer has given ***+ to, I would say that's a pretty accurate statement.

I'm pretty sure Randy Orton smokes man pole.