Hunter's Torn Quad

WrestlingObserver.com Of the three options given, the most likely is some sort of working agreement that sees them working together against a common enemy, the UFC. No matter what happens between the two, I don't see it lasting long if it even ever gets off the ground.

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They can have Angle bleeding like crazy while Joe has him in the choke. The referee calls for the bell declaring Joe the winner. Joe is happy, until it's announced the referee has deemed Kurt Angle too blooded up to continue and Joe has won on a blood stoppage and not from the choke. Joe snaps, puts Kurt back in the choke and it ends up with the decision being reversed and Angle wins via DQ.

The length of Joe vs. Angle I depends on the finish. If they go with Joe losing via DQ for refusing to let go of the choke, then about 18 minutes is fine. It gives the people a long enough main event that they feel like they got their money's worth, but not so much time that the people feel like they wasted time watching a match that had a DQ finish. If the finish is Joe or Angle winning clean, and I think it should be Joe winning, then they probably should go around 23 minutes. Thay way, the match is good enough that the guy losing still looks like a star, and they, hopefully, have a match they can at least top in Joe vs. Angle II.

WWE.com posted about the company meeting with Brock Lesnar to discuss his return. Brock wound up not returning. WWE. com posted about Vince meeting with Simon Inoki to talk business. They wound up doing no business together. Not only that, it's more than a reach to turn one mention of some people from PRIDE meeting some people from WWE to talk about maybe working together into any kind of proof that there is a chance of Vince buying out PRIDE. You might want to try reading up on the background of PRIDE before commenting next time, ok?

The difference between Bret losing the day he won the belt and Abyss losing here is that Bret was already a main eventer and could afford to lose. Abyss is strictly midcard and losing here didn't help. It might not hurt in the long-term, but it sure didn't help him at all heading into the PPV. And while Abyss/Sting isn't selling PPV buys, you can at least make it look like the guy challenging for the NWA Title on PPV is a legitimate contender. Having him lose here only makes it look like Sting is fighting a scrub, and how does that make Sting or the NWA Title look?

I'd be surprised if Brown lasts a year. With Brown being a decent talker and a sub-par worker, WWE will probably have him wrestle all the time and never cut a promo.

Not by much if they give too much attention to WWE through it. And even then...... meh, I don't know. They'll do nothing except waste time and it'll go nowhere beyond meaning. Which begs the question of what the fucking point of this stupid piece of shit angle is? There is no payoff they can give that will make this worth a crap.

What's the payoff to the VKM angle going to be, and will it make the whole nonsense make sense?

It's Total Nonstop Apathy.

This one is Russo's idea. Not to say he didn't get encouraged to go with it, but the idea is his, right down to the VKM initials.

Maybe Jeff and Johnny. On Raw, did they mention at all that Umaga pinned Cena earlier in the year?

Cena/Michaels would be interesting if only to see if Michaels will oversell for Cena the same way he did for Hogan. I wonder if that match would make them suddenly remember Cena pinning Shawn last year at Taboo Tuesday.

Yes.

Classic.

Wrestlemag

The fight order: Prelim matches Josh Shockman vs. Jake O'Brien Hector Ramirez vs. James Irvin Antoni Hardonk vs. Sherman Pendergarst Gleison Tibau vs. Nick Diaz Live fights in order Dokonjonosuke Mishima vs. Joe Stevenson Brandon Vera vs. Frank Mir Tim Sylvia vs. Jeff Monson for the heavyweight title Drew McFedrie vs. Alessio Sakara Matt Hughes vs. Georges St. Pierre for the welterweight title

Hoyt was pushed because TNA thought he was over, when the only reason he was getting cheered was because he drank with the fans at the bar after the show.

Bret Hart is a different story. If he wanted to come back, he would have. Many times over. He's been offered numerous chances to come back and turned them all down. The only reason he did the DVD and HoF stuff was because Vince was going to bury him six feet under with a DVD based entirely around Montreal. Bret has no reason or incentive to come back again, especially as the third wheel of a match where he'd be secondary to two other people.

Some debate from elsewhere: Well, it's the premier group in Japan where it is a name brand. That has value - the same way that the WWE brand has value in the US. He would also inherit a talent-roster superior to UFC's so right off the bat he could go after them with people like Fedor and Cro Cop who are bigger stars within the MMA community and have considerable charisma. He would get the contracts without having to get into a bidding war over them. If you buy it from them, then they are out of the business. This happens all the time - the Los Angeles Kings hockey team owner over a decade ago was indicted for tax evasion and a ton of felonies. He had to sell the team. No one accused the new owner of being tainted. If the WWE lost television, don't you think there would still be considerable value in owning that brand? Pride is a known brand - that has value. Pride is the premier fighting organization internationally. The company is bleeding money right now and if they don't get a television contract, they could be bought for relatively cheap. Now that the informational portion of this thread is out of the way, some of you can resume with the 'jokes'.

First Hour Angle on WOL now is saying that when he went to Smackdown he was the second choice. Shawn Michaels was the first choice but he turned it down. Angle says he disrespects Shawn for that. He aso said he was sick of being the utility guy and wanted to be 'the' guy. Angle says he was going to win the main event of Wrestlemania XIX until he hurt his neck. Doesn't think Vince ever protected him. Says they spent all week writing for Raw and then the next day would panic over not having anything to do for Smackdown or ECW, and would just say, "Well we'll put Angle in the ring to wrestle and that'll take up 30 minutes." Says he broke his neck against Shawn on the Homecoming Raw (might have the wrong match here) when he landed wrongly on an Angle Slam. Broke his C7 and T1. Says he was getting tested for painkillers every week and passing shortly after this. Said he asked for a month off after dropping the World Title at WM 22, which was agreed to and was then asked to go on tour overseas. Says they kept putting him on the road even when he asked for time off. From what he says, it was along the lines of him being asked "just do this one thing" time after time. Says he was losing weight, wasn't on painkillers even though he was getting tested weekly. Had a cortisone shot in his neck to help, and when he was drug tested they found steroids, the cortisone, and was suspended for a month which angered him. Said that eight others also tested positive but nothing was done about them, and that also upset him. Said he lost $125,000 from being suspended. Was calling Vince and Johnny Ace and was upset with them. Said it was at this point he decided to leave. Was calling UFC and they made him an offer that was good but he turned it down because they wanted to 'own him' and 'nobody was going to own Kurt Angle'. After this he was told he was going to ECW which he wasn't happy with but Vince told him he would be the top guy but then it ended up with Heyman writing Van Dam as the top guy. Vince met with Kurt and he handed Kurt a bunch of papers with a list of all the messages that Kurt had left Vince and Johnny Ace. Said he told Vince he wanted either part-time or he'd quit, Vince refused, and Angle said he quit. Angle shot back with that he had a big money offer from PRIDE, and Vince said "Fine, take it. Go." Said he was Vince's top draw. Commended Cena and Shawn, but said he was the best wrestler and people came to see him wrestle. Second Hour Expects a very physical match with Joe. Says he and Joe have been treating it as a shoot. Says the match won't be pretty but it will be great. Says the eight guys who failed the tests had scripts from a surgeon/doctor , but his was from a pain doctor(?), so theirs was legally ok. Says if you pick the ten greatest matches in WWE history, he'll be part of all ten. Says Joe is tough and that it'll be a challenge to keep up with him. Talked about giving advice in ECW and TNA. Says he was an agent in ECW, and that when he gave advice to someone in ECW they complained to someone about it, saying Kurt had only been in the business for six years when they'd been in it for fourteen. Dixie and Jeff Jarrett told Kurt to teach the TNA wrestlers the things he knows but they don't. Kurt said he studied wrestling tape from the 70s which is why he has more wrestling. Says the WWE wrestlers wouldn't even tie up, and it'd be chop and punch. Says he's in TNA to not just be a wrestler but an agent. He likes advising the wrestlers and doing the agent stuff. Tells wrestlers to do what they do well and stay away from what they don't do well. Says the six-sided ring has less dead time, as there isn't much time from when you throw someone into the ropes and when they bound back. Says it requires more improvisation, and he picked that skill up from Patterson, Ace, Briscoe, etc. Kurt says he is 100%. His arms grew two and half inches, his groin is fine and he's fine. Says the match he tore his groin in against Van Dam was one of RVD's best ever, and the fans gave him a ten minute standing ovation. Kurt told the agents how injured he was and was told he was going to the next ECW house show and he decided there and then to quit. The next time he saw Vince, he pulled his pants down and he was all black and blue from where he was badly injured. Kurt says he has plans to go to Japan and MMA. He's all for it and so is Dixie, but that Dixie wants him healthy for it. They're still working the details out if it. Kurt says he expects to have 1-3 MMA matches. Says the prime-time TNA show is the best TNA show ever. Says the AJ Styles match is awesome and must-see. Says PRIDE offered him three fights at $1m a fight plus $3m in endorsements. Says UFC offered one fight for $10.4 million. Would have been in Season 5 of TUF and in the crowd for future seasons. Says Dixie Carter will sit in the stands and watch the show which he's never seen before out of the owner of the company. Says Dixie won't let anyone wrestler who is injured and they will work around it. Says TNA blows WWE's talent away. They just need a little more guidance, and that nobody knows their names. TNA will get there. Says he can have ***** matches with so many of their wrestlers. Says he can't say the same about WWE wrestlers, about 90% of them. Calls TNA the best kept secret in the world and has wanted to join them for two years. Says TNA has comparable production to WWE, sometimes better. Says Dave Sahadi is the best production guy in the business. Says Dixie had him take three physicals from three different doctorss. Had him drug tested once that knew about ahead of time and then another surprise one. Wants/expects Spike to offer a two-hour slot within three months. Bryan asked Kurt if he is too driven that he'll not be able to ask for time off when he needs it. Kurt says he'll have trouble saying he needs time off and he might even lie/have trouble lying to Dixie about needing time off. Kurt said his goal is the run the show(?) and take it to Vince and tell him he saw what he did right and wrong. Kurt said he's been in the ring in so much pain he's been taking pains up the wazoo. Said he wanted to go to rehab but was told he couldn't and he had to rehab himself through prayer and such. Said he won't do that to himself again. Says if he has minor injuries he'll lie to Dixie and say he's fine but if it's major he'll come clean. Kurt says he is clean but when the time comes he'll leave his boots in the ring and walk away. Says he's not afraid of letting go of the fame. Says he can do other stuff, like running the show. Says Vince was too eager to get on Sci-Fi with more product. Says 65% of WWE talented are worried they're going to get fired and the other 35% are unhappy anyway. Says Vince is reaching too much and with three promotions there is only so much you can do. Said Vince is abusing the talent, and refered to driving 3, 4, 8 and then 3 hours for consecutive shows. Says WWE have spread themselves too thin and TNA are now the best show on TV. Said that Raw was well written, though. Criticised some of the stuff on Raw that you don't want your kids watching and that a lot of the WWE's audience is kids, and that WWE has been irresponsible. Says someone in the Kurt-Angle-Steph triangle didn't want it to continue and that that same person said Kurt shouldn't/couldn't be champion. When someone, maybe Kurt, said what would happen in this person and Kurt had shoot match the persion knocking Kurt put his head down and Vince said Kurt was going to be champion. Says he wants to be the top star in TNA but if someone comes along and can get bigger than Kurt he'll step aside and let them get big because that'll mean he can make more money. A caller got cut off and things broke down. Was asked about the When Harry Met Sally spoof with Christy Hemme and if Kurt would do that sort of thing in TNA. Kurt said he wanted to do comedy. Said Spike is writing up stuff for him to do in both TV and movies. A caller asked about angles Kurt shot down and if the main mentality in TNA is all about beating Vince Dave thinks the mentality is about getting the word out about TNA because so few people know. Kurt came back on and said he'd go back to be accepted into the WWE HoF. Says he wasn't keen on the Booker T-Sharmell angle talking about bestiality. Kurt finishes off by saying he and Samoa Joe will be MOTY.

Bryan Alvarez has the rating as a 1.06. F4W

It was Fabolous.

I haven't seen one, and if a rating gets delayed that usually means bad news.

You don't need to bother with the fan who doesn't like wrestling. It's the wrestling fan who doesn't know about TNA or needs a hook to get interested in TNA that they need to go after. There are still a large number of wrestling fans who either don't know TNA exists or haven't been given a reason to care that they exist.