Hunter's Torn Quad

In order to collect royalties you need to have your name somewhere on the shirt I'm calling bullshit. Chain Gang shirts don't all say Cena and I'm sure he gets royalties. Hogan got royalties from NWO shirts. His name was nowhere to be found...that was WCW though. Hogan got royalties from actions figures that weren't even his.

I can see the six-man being Jarrett, Steiner and Abyss vs. Joe, Christian and Rhino, because we all need to see Abyss face Rhino for the billionth time, and Christian against Abyss was only on the last PPV, so we need to go back to it fast.

I'm not saying Steiner beats Joe, but that Steiner causes Joe to lose to someone else before the second match.

You're only now just working that out?

Only two things worry me about this scenario. One, Steiner getting enough color to make the stoppage credible, and two, TNA having Steiner cause Joe to lose before they wrestle again.

No, but the TNA booking committee, headed by Jarrett, have shown themselves to be marks for anyone with perceived name value, so I wouldn't totally rule out the possibility of a Steiner win.

In ring skills matter to those who have watched wrestling for quite a while. Of course Mic skills are important, but wrestling is still wrestling, the quality of the matches are what are important. It was Cena's skills, or lack of them, that helped turn people against him. When the people saw him beating people who were clearly far more talented in the ring it made hating him easier, because they felt him undeserving and felt Cena was being pushed down their throats. If Cena was capable of looking even half way as talented as the likes of Jericho, Angle or Michaels, it might not have been so bad, but they could see Cena was nowhere as talented in the ring, and they reacted accordingly. Ring skills might not matter as much as they used to, but when you're facing guys who the fans see as very talented workers, and you're always beating them, you better be at least talented enough to hang with them, or the fans will turn on you in a heartbeat.

--Raw on Monday did a 3.7 rating. Da Meltz.

'God' was their idea, thus automatically making it a good one. I can see at least one possible Sci-Fi storyline ECW can do, that won't seem stupid. They can have a babyface wrestler who is a big Sci-Fi fan. He'll get mocked by some heels for a while for being a geek, loser, etc, and the heels can say he's just like every Sci-Fi fan. The babyface can fight back, and, in the end, beat the heels and prove that Sci-Fi fans can kick ass too. It probably won't satisfy the people who are pressing for a Sci-Fi orientated storyline, but I think it's a good compromise.

I was busy copying and pasting the Bible to post to see if God would sue me. This thread is gone so far off topic it's not worth keeping open.

WWE JUDGMENT DAY POLL RESULTS Thumbs up: 139 (82.7%) Thumbs down: 2 (01.2%) In the middle: 27 (16.1 %) BEST MATCH POLL Chris Benoit vs. Fit Finlay: 121 MNM vs. London & Kendrick: 30 Rey Mysterio vs. JBL: 9 WORST MATCH POLL Undertaker vs. Great Khali: 118 Jillian Hall vs. Melina: 21 Things are going crazy in the WWE. With injuries and burnout affecting much of the roster, fights breaking out, Smackdown ratings plunging badly, yet house show business seemingly strong and ECW about to be launched with almost nothing finalized in plans, it can only be described as nobody knows what is going to happen next. Major booking plans change by the minute, and nobody knows what is going to happen in two PPV events that are just a few weeks away. It was expected all week that an announcement would be made on 5/23 that the new ECW show would be signed for the Sci-Fi channel and debut on 6/13. With so much going on, things got crazy on the deal. As best we can tell, the announcement will likely be made before any of you read this. Some of the terms were not yet finalized. The show will air on Tuesday night, either at 9 p.m. or 10 p.m., for one hour. Sci-Fi, after first agreeing to a 52 week commitment, started getting some cold feet on the project, and at last word had only committed to 12 episodes. Because of the WWE's exclusive TV deal with NBC Universal, and USA Network not interested in giving the show a good time slot, and Bravo expressing only mild interest, WWE has very little leverage in this deal. With so much in motion, the McMahon’s agreed to the trial run. Bonnie Hammer, who was a strong force in bringing WWE back to the USA Network is in charge of the Sci-Fi Channel and wants more WWE branded pro wrestling because she just wants ratings for the channel. Those underneath here were in an uproar over the decision, because they don't think pro wrestling fits within the theme of the station. Worse, when word got out from our web site report, the message board at the channel saw the hardcore Sci-Fi fans livid that they were going to add pro wrestling to the station. There is a feeling that the network needs to increase its ratings, and the final call, by Jeff Zucker, would be ratings vs. station theme. The belief is ECW would be, from the start, one of the highest rated shows on the network. It is also a genuine concern that the network would pressure ECW to run at least one Sci-Fi friendly storyline. As of now, there is now Canadian TV deal, but this is expected to be worked on this week and there are said to be one or two potential players. The Fight Network, the 24-hour Canadian premium channel, has expressed interest. For many reasons, one of them being WWE likely doesn't want the network to succeed, I’d call it a long shot. ECW would immediately become the flagship for the network and be a huge subscription driver for the station. But its penetration at this point is not strong among mainstream fans as only a tiny percentage of Canadians subscribe at this point. TSN, which carries Raw, is said to have no interest in adding a new wrestling show. Still, TNA was very close to getting on TSN, with a deal in place, until it fell apart at the last minute. As things stand, the first show will be from the Smackdown tapings on 6/13 in Trenton. The show will either air on a one or two hour tape delay, or go live. Live would be a significantly greater expense due to needing to purchase satellite time weekly, which isn't cheap. If the decision is made to go live, then ECW would be done in the arena after Smackdown, instead of before, as had been the plan. This would give them more leeway to do extreme things without having to worry about burning out the crowd for the Smackdown show that would follow. If the show isn't done live, it would have to be taped most nights from 7-8 p.m., at least when shows are done on the East Coast. Being taped after Smackdown would be a different type of handicap, as fans would be tired from the two-hour" Smackdown taping, and at this point it would be a show with considerably less star power that follows. At press time, there is still no confirmation of the roster other than the names that have already been talked about. We've heard Test being batted around as a potential top heel to face Rob Van Dam C.M. Punk and Mike Knox are the only developmental guys we've even heard whispers about as far as being, prominent, and neither of them are definite. Most of the developmental talent Paul Heyman would have likely built around, Armando Alejandro Estrada, Gunner Scott and Beth Phoenix, were just brought to Raw or Smackdown. WWE sources indicate the roster will be stronger than it sounds, and some people from Raw and ¬Smackdown will be added to the brand. There has been talk that if the show goes live, then, because of the way McMahon thinks, the show will become more important because of the live pressure, than Smackdown. Even so, it is not expected on Sci-Fi to have anywhere near the audience Smackdown will have on a network. More McMahon involvement has both its pluses and minuses. The pluses are money becomes less of an object. Also, the politics of holding it back because of the potential ego issues if it is viewed as better than one or both of the existing shows isn't going to be an issue. The negative is, McMahon will be more hands on, and it will be the Vince McMahon vision of what ECW was. Either way, any predictions right now are foolish. This isn't going to be a recreation of ECW. It can't be. Times are different. What was fresh then is passé now. The talent that was cool then is nostalgia now, and can help it get started, but can't be the stars six months from now. They may get off to a strong nostalgia sendoff, and that means nothing. And if they don't, it still means nothing. The only early key is they have to deliver strong enough first numbers to get a renewal and earn their way on to being a permanent part of the network. But the success or failure will be whether the new talent can carry the ball six months from now. House shows will officially start II days after the first television, with shows on 6/24 at the old ECW Arena in Philadelphia and 6/25 in Elizabeth, PA. This becomes another issue. The old ECW generally ran two shows per week, and physically, even with copious painkiller usage, the type WWE would not allow today, that was all people working the style could handle. The guys are much older, much more broken down, and are going to have to do four nights per week. That is a bad decision on many levels, because that limits the one unique thing about the product, that guys would be willing and able to take more punishment than the stars of the other-brands. Instead, you've either got green guys who are young, or beaten up older guys, who, as a general rule, are far less talented and charismatic than those on Raw or Smackdown. But they will also be playing mostly smaller cities and in buildings that seat 1,000 to 2,000 people. In a sense, this, particularly in the Northeast where most of the shows are expected to be held, puts WWE in more direct competition with indies. But the reality is whatever little money is going to be made running house shows that draw 1,000 people isn't worth it to water down the style, or physically destroy the talent that much faster. It is official that after One Night Stand, there will be a second PPV show added on 12/3. This means WWE will be promoting a Survivor Series show in Philadelphia, and come back seven days later with an ECW show, and two weeks after that run Armageddon with the Smackdown brand in Richmond, VA. With domestic PPV numbers down so significantly over the past two years, partially due to adding the extra shows, as well as UFC taking off this year and lighter weight boxing drawing more consistent numbers, both beating WWE so badly except for Mania, this is going to put the company in more competition with itself kind of way. ECW is also going to be viewed in its own way as direct competition with TNA, which, if ECW does succeed, can be a victim of its success. Even though there are different fan bases for everything, there is enough of an overlap that there is bound to be a market correction by the end of the year. Although, as the late 90s showed, if wrestling becomes "in," a hot product can survive overexposure, at least for a little while. According to a few source, Tommy Dreamer has already lost considerable power. Aside from being talent, his role is as the talent relations point person for the brand, reporting to John Laurinaitis. Independent wrestlers who have expressed interest have been repeatedly told that they are looking for guys at least 6-2, and preferably more than 250 pounds. Terry Funk and others have made a strong recommendation for Homicide, who may be the exception to that rule. But no offer has been made to him and he's believed to be under some sort of a TNA deal, although he was likely signed for a short-time frame deal that is soon to expire and he isn't happy there. With the exception of Rhino, all of the other main TNA wrestlers are signed for the long haul, so don't expect much movement from there. Paul Heyman is the main creative force. But history tells us a major story. Heyman ultimately never gets along with management. He didn't get along with Verne Gagne. He didn't get along with anyone in WCW other than Kip Frye. He was put on ice on several occasions in WWE when he was a member of the creative team, and never for poor job performance, but because of problems with management. It almost seems from the outside that it's more a when than and if a blow-up occurs and he's removed from power, which would then kill the only real link to ECW. But that ECW is dead and was buried five years ago. Anyone who expects it again will be disappointed in the end. But whatever the new product is, however the entertainment is reinvented, may still wind up as a viable ancillary business, adding to licensing opportunities and the like while costs for talent and touring will likely be kept down so whatever losses from touring, if people don't buy tickets six months from now, won't necessarily put it on death row. As far as changes go, the only definite news is that the Chris Benoit vs. Dean Malenko match, planned as a tribute to Eddie Guerrero, will not be taking place. While Benoit is banged up and won't be on the show that is not the reason for the match being canceled. Heyman's idea, and it was approved, was to instead do a Benoit vs. Kurt Angle submission match. Angle was mad on 5/23 in Bakersfield when he got the word, but others felt Benoit was just as unhappy about his match with his mend being nixed. Benoit had several things promised to him that haven't been delivered and Malenko had gone into training for his return that was taken off the books. (Last night on The Law, Meltzer confirmed that that this match is also out as well) Benoit will be out for an indefinite period for a combination of reasons. WWE officials cite that his body is banged up, most notably a shoulder injury, but also say that professional burnout is a factor, and perhaps most important is that his wife Nancy is recovering from major neck surgery from Dr Lloyd Youngblood and needs to rest and is not allowed to lift a thing, and needs help at home. It's not expected to be a long-term absence. No other matches are finalized on the PPV, which is now less than three weeks away. As mentioned here, there has been considerable talk of Tazz going to ECW as a co-host with Joey Styles as well as a coach to endorse the next generation UFC style gimmick fighter in the company. That is far from a definite and it's still considered better than 50% that he stays on Smackdown. If the move is made, Simon Dean (Mike Bucci) and Jonathan Coachman have been talked about as Michael Cole’s sidekick ========== Wrestlemania 22 on 4/2 from the All-State Arena in Chicago, based on preliminary estimates, should end up as the third biggest pro wrestling PPV event of all-time. The first estimates of 925,000 buys, for a show headlined by John Cena vs. HHH, Kurt Angle vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Randy Orton and Vince McMahon vs. Shawn Michaels, released on 5/17, puts it slightly behind first estimates of Wrestlemania X-7 (950,000) and last year's Wrestlemania (940,000). With a $49.95 price tag (Austin vs. Rock was a $39.95 show),it will likely fall only behind last year's event as the biggest grossing pro Wrestling event in history. Between the PPV revenue, live gate and merchandise, the total gross revenue for the event would be between $44 million and $49 million at this point. It's hard to make a more accurate early estimate, because such a high percentage of orders came from outside North America, and the PPV is priced fur lower in overseas markets. On a worldwide basis, this would be the biggest PPV event so far this year, and would remain that way unless Oscar de la Hoya faces Floyd Mayweather Jr. or someone near that caliber in September, as has been talked about. In North America, it would be the second biggest of the year, behind de la Hoya vs. Ricardo Mayorga. A few things should be noted about the estimate when it comes to some minor tricks. The WWE didn't release an estimate until seven weeks after the show. In most years, the first estimate came at the two week mark Thus you have a slightly highly artificial first number. Last year's first estimate was about four weeks after the show. Still, when all is said and done, the show should top one million buys, although its final listing in WWE's records (show records close as of the end of the fiscal year) will not reach that level. Because of greater international exposure, and international buys are slower in being tallied, it does have a shot at breaking the 1,040,000 record set by the Austin vs. Rock match on April 1, 2001, at the Astrodome in Houston, but most likely will wind up in third place. As constantly noted because this is such an important point that is usually ignored when comparing buy numbers, over the past three years, international buys for WWE PPV shows have exploded. For just the North American market, the show would still likely end up cracking the top 15 of all time, but would not hit the top ten. Last year's show, headlined by HHH vs. Batista, is listed at doing 985,000 buys, which is actually the number that would have been recorded at a similar time after the show (May of that year) as this year's, so it looks to be down 6% worldwide. Domestically, this year's show is estimated at between 582,000 and 600,000 at this stage of the game, down from 650,000 domestic and 335,000 overseas last year. The company had spent millions advertising the show in the UK and was hoping for 200,000 buys from that country alone. With the foreign advertising, one would suspect the company spent more money on advertising this event than any event in its history. The 2001 number would be almost exclusively a domestic number, as it wasn't until 2004 when overseas started becoming a large percentage of PPV buys. In 2004, headlined by HHH vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels (although at the time of the show, the two biggest drawing matches on the show were Rock & Mick Foley vs. Ric Flair & Orton & Batista and Brock Lesnar vs. Bill Goldberg), the show did 885,000 buys at a similar period, which was approximately 681,000 in North America and 204,000 overseas. In 2003, with a significantly lower percentage of overseas buys, the show headlined by Vince McMahon vs. Hulk Hogan and Angle vs. Brock Lesnar drew 560,000 buys, which would be the last time a Wrestlemania show drew a disappointing number of buys. It was also held in Seattle, because Safeco Field could put 54,000 fans in attendance. But that has been blamed for the low performance of that show (obviously it couldn't have been that Vince vs. Hogan wasn't a strong main event), and since then, you've seen Mania in smaller arena settings in New York, Los Angeles and Chicago, which don't have domed baseball/football stadiums. But this led to the show getting more mainstream publicity, plus with the local publicity, the higher than usual buy rate in a big market city. Also, the ability to charge a premium amount for tickets in a big market wound up even with far less fans attending, the actual ticket revenue wasn't all that much lower the past three years than in' Seattle. Next year they are attempting a combination. Detroit is a top ten market, but it also has a domed stadium, and works as a theme because it is the 20th anniversary of Wrestlemania III, held nearby at the Pontiac Silverdome. That theme is another reason why a Hulk Hogan vs. Steve Austin match would fit better next year than any future year as far as a symbiotic marketing strategy. In 2002, headlined by HHH vs. Chris Jericho, but with the real top drawing match being Hogan vs. Rock, the show did 840,000, but that's with almost all the buys coming from North America. Five of the six Wrestlemania’s since 2001 would rank as the five biggest PPV events, in terms of buys, in wrestling history. Part of the reason is so many more homes had PPV capability. Wrestlemania was a huge deal on PPV once it hit the five million homes in the U.S. mark in 1987 for the Hulk Hogan vs. Andre the Giant match (which did about 400,000 buys, but by far the largest actual percentage of homes with PPV capability in history bought that show), through 1989, when the Hogan vs. Randy Savage match hit 650,000 buys, an all-time record that stood until the second boom period nine years later. Mania fell off greatly from 1991 to 1996, usually hovering between 300,000 and 400,000. The 1997 Mania, headlined by Undertaker vs. Sid, bottomed out at 237,000 buys, the level of a low rated "B" show by today's standards. That year there were at least five WCW events and one WWE event that outsold Mania in 1997. It appeared Wrestlemania as a name was dead as far as being far and away the show of the year. But things turned around in 1998, largely due to the involvement of Mike Tyson as referee in the Michaels vs. Steve Austin match, with buys more than tripling from the prior year, at 730,000. Things never looked back and it has been the show of the year, by far, every year since that point. Numbers grew every year through 2001, when the popularity of WWE hit its peak with the Astrodome show. While Mania has declined on PPV domestically, but in recent years, the decline in domestic buys has been more than made up for with record setting DVD sales. Last year's Mania show has been among the top 20 best selling DVDs every week since it's release more than one year ago, and this year's show is expected to be the biggest selling pro wrestling DVD in history. Based on the latest company released estimates for the newer years and the original released estimates in most cases for the older years, here are the biggest PPV events in history: 1,040,000 - 4/1/01 Wrestlemania 17 (Rock vs. Austin) 985,000 - 3/31/05 Wrestlemania 21 (HHH vs. Batista) 925,000 - 4/2/06 Wrestlemania 22 (Cena vs. HHH) 885,000 - 3/14/04 Wrestlemania 20 (HHH vs. Benoit vs. Michaels)*** 840,000 - 3/17/02 Wrestlemania 18 (Rock vs. Hogan)**** 824,000 - 4/2/00 Wrestlemania 16 (HHH vs. Rock vs. Foley vs. Show) 800,000 - 3/28/99 Wrestlemania 15 (Austin vs. Rock) 770,000 - 7/22/0 Invasion (Booker T & Dudley’s & DDP & Rhyno vs. Austin & Angle & Undertaker & Kane & Jericho) 730,000 - 3/29/98 Wrestlemania 14 (Austin vs. Michaels/Tyson ref) 700,000 - 8/30/98 SummerSlam (Austin vs. Undertaker) 675,000 - 4/30/00 Backlash (Rock vs. HHH)* 665,000 - 1/20/02 Royal Rumble (Rumble/Jericho vs. Rock)** 650,000 - 12/28/97 Starrcade '97 (Hogan vs. Sting) 650,000 - 4/2/89 Wrestlemania 5 (Hogan vs. Savage) 650,000 - 1/24/99 Royal Rumble (Rumble, Rock vs. Foley) 636,000 - 8/21/05 Summerslam (Hogan vs. Michaels) 605,000 - 9/24/00 Unforgiven (Rock vs. Benoit vs. Undertaker vs. Kane)* 600,000 - 7/12/98 Bash at the Beach (Hogan & Rodman vs. DDP & Malone) 600,000 - 8/22/99 Summerslam (Austin vs. HHH vs. Foley, Ventura referee) *Both of these buy rates were drawn by Austin returning after a long absence and not them main event of the show. The April 30, 2000, buy rate in many ways showed the peak of the Austin drawing power, as he pulled nearly a Wrestlemania level number for a "B" PPV and he didn't even wrestle on the show. It was Austin's first televised appearance, since neck surgery which at the time threatened his career **The reason this was the most successful Rumble event ever, even more notable because WWE and DirecTV were at odds and DirecTV didn't air the event, was due to the incredible job of hyping the return of HHH after a long absence due to a tom quadriceps muscle ***Although this was the main event and stole the show from a match quality standpoint, polls before the show took place listed Rock & Foley vs. Flair & Orton & Batista as the biggest drawing match on the show, followed by Bill Goldberg vs. Brock Lesnar. Even though the main event stole the show and is the most remembered thing on the card, at the time, it was probably only the third biggest drawing match on the show. ****HHH vs. Chris Jericho was put in the main event position on this show, but Hogan vs. Rock was clearly the most heavily advertised match and most responsible for the buys Most times top draw on the list: Steve Austin (7), Batista (2), Mick Foley (4), HHH (4), Hulk Hogan (5), Shawn Michaels (2), Rock (6) ========== The first of many releases from WWE Films, "See No Evil," opened to largely bad to awful reviews and overall decent business over its first weekend. The movie, put out by famed porn director Gregory Dark, with Kane playing Jacob Goodnight, a horror character based somewhat on his wrestling persona, closed at $4,581,233, good for sixth place, in its first weekend. At press time, the movie was at $4,958,575. Because it was released in only 1,273 theaters, its per screen average was third for the weekend behind the expected blockbusters "The Da Vinci Code" and "Over the Hedge," which got most of the weekend publicity. WWE pushed the third place figure hard on its television, and did qualify it by saying per screen average. Most industry predictions were between $3 million and $4 million for the opening weekend, so it was slightly ahead, probably because of the uniqueness of its direct marketing to several million wrestling fans. The expectation is a major drop-off in week two. Although it appeared that there was a heavy ad budget, including heavy advertising on rival properties like Spike's Impact and UFC shows, largely purchased by New Line Cinema, the movie is expected to make back its original investment of $8 million by WWE when you figure in international distribution and the DVD market, but doesn't look to be hugely profitable. It was interesting to note that in all advertising purchased on non¬-WWE programming, the fact it was a WWE film and the name Kane as the star were not pushed. Luckily movie economics have changed, because with tremendous inflation, the movie grossed less in the first weekend than "No Holds Barred," a Hulk Hogan vehicle that Vince McMahon produced in 1989, which McMahon has noted on many occasions was a huge money loser. New Line didn't screen the movie in advance for critics, which was a sign right off the bat they didn't have confidence in the reviews. Horror movies are usually aimed at teenagers, usually don't do well in reviews, and the movie didn't do badly when it came to actual audience response in some places. Response from Observer readers who attended indicated the audiences they saw it with were generally not happy about it, with many making note of people walking out, even though it was only 80 minutes long. WWE should be commended for strong marketing on its television, which fueled whatever level of success this had, particularly the "May 19th" advertising campaign. Rotten Tomatoes, the web site that tabulates movie reviews, had this at 0% positive reviews, which is not unprecedented; but even the worst movies usually get 20% good reviews, as many major newspapers even gave it an "F" rating. It appeared the big game was how cleverly reviewers could destroy it, such as, "Assuming there are no other credit cookies the final image in See No Evil is a dog urinating in an eye socket. There couldn't be a better way to describe the experience of watching this film," wrote Mark Pfeiffer in Reel Times. Or, "As shallow as a toilet bowl and twice as rank as its usual contents," wrote Nick Schager in Slant Magazine. Virtually everyone in what was essentially a cast of good looking unknowns, were panned, as were Dark and writer Dan Madigan (a long-time member of the WWE writing team). The company has one more movie to be released this year, the John Cena movie, "The Marine." Even though that movie was the first one shot, it was the second in release because it was said to be the weaker of the two, which certainly doesn't bode well for it. However, with Cena as the star, it has the stronger marquee attraction. It also loses the novelty and curiosity aspect with each successive release, unless the studio actually turns out quality films, although like everything WWE-related, Vince McMahon's personal vision of quality isn't usually in line with most, and is more aiming for a low level niche to begin with. The WWE's success in books, through the roof early on and then dwindling down, is likely to happen to this genre as well. The difference is many of the early books were quite good, although a few were awful. I don't know that they are going to luck into a "Have a Nice Day" surprise when it comes to movies. But the company looks to be steering more in the direction of made-for- TV movies for the USA Network for next season using its talent, which at least guarantees, since the network is buying the movie, profitability. We've also seen how that is likely to turn out. When WCW Nitro was at its hottest, the company produced a few TV movies for TNT. The first one drew incredible ratings, the highest movie the network had ever produced, but after that, things dwindled down quickly. Of course, WCW itself dwindled down greatly in popularity in record time. Glen Jacobs did a ton of media to promote the movie, attempting to stay as much in character as possible, although some stories noted his college background, interest in international politics and that he was a small college basketball star in his other lifetime. Several outlets were also critical of New Line for hiding the porn past of Dark. Lion's Gate publicity talked about Dark's degrees ¬from Stanford and NYU and video work with Britney Spears and Snoop Dog, but never mentioned his 13 years as one of the best known porn producers in the country. ========== Here is a more detailed eye-witness account of what happened on 5/15 during the filming of the SummerSlam commercial between Booker T and Batista. There was apparently an underlying issue between the two, which neither would talk about. There has been speculation this stems from the problems Melina had with Sharmell on the Australian tour, which led to the guys giving up their final night in Australia for wrestlers' court to sentence Melina for her behavior, although Booker has told friends it was Batista's attitude that caused it, as he perceived, and still does, that Batista feels like he's superior to the rest of the guys and perceives the only people he respects are the top guys like HHH and Ric Flair. As said by Booker on the WWE web site, it did have to do with his belief that Batista didn't respect the history of the business, but the belief is there was something personal that had gone down, including Booker's claim that Batista said things directly to him that he took as being told he was nothing but a jobber, and in the course of the argument, Batista told Booker that if he didn't like it, they could settle it, and he could take him out at any time. Batista hadn't been around much in months since he had been rehabbing his surgically repaired triceps and his tom lat. Booker felt that Batista had been bragging about what a big draw he was, while the rest of the guys didn't like it because the Smackdown guys felt they weren't earning any more money last year than they did the year before. Overall, Smackdown business was up from a year ago, but there are a lot of factors involved with that, including merchandise for the top guys, international touring, and the more direct appeal to the Hispanic market. When Batista came to the commercial shoot, it was said he only went up to certain guys to shake their hand, which were top guys and Fit Finlay. For better or for worse, given locker room etiquette, the guys he didn't come to, who went to him, some of them felt that was a slight, which probably would have meant nothing in the long run except things quickly compounded. Anyway, major rule of thumb if you are in a WWE locker room-walk up to every person there and introduce yourself the first time, and every other time, shake everyone's hand. Apparently, Booker was one of those and felt Batista was being a big shot and had no respect for business and cut a promo on him. He may have brought up the article from the U.K. where Batista, when he was still on Raw, cut down Smack down and saying the wrestlers didn't work as hard and the performance of some of them sickened him. The only thing we were told directly is the two argued, when Batista told Booker he could take him out at any time, Booker responded by saying why not try right now and step into an empty room, close the door behind us and go for it. There were a lot of underlying negative feelings when he came over. Things went back and forth because Batista's first program was with JBL, and Batista confided in Eddie Guerrero that he felt JBL was sandbagging him in their program that didn't click. During the argument back-and-forth, which Booker was getting the better of, Batista apparently insinuated he was a draw and pointed to Smackdown ratings going in the toilet since he left. The worst part of that is Batista is 100% correct as far as the timing went. You can argue the reasons, but they are much lower now than when he went down for the injury as champion. It wasn't the full reason and was probably only a minor factor at best as compared with the pre-emptions and lame duck status on so many of the stations. Even when Batista was there, Rey Mysterio has been the big draw on Smackdown for the past several months. But he was pushed as the top babyface and his being out was a factor and didn't help any. But you can imagine how that plays in front of the rest of the guys, worse, because deep down the ones who pay attention to ratings know there is something factual to the statement. There were people who tried to talk Batista out of it, not just because either or both could get hurt needlessly and both are old enough to where they should know better and not be fighting. Plus with Batista, given his triceps injury, after three operations, he was risking his career over something stupid. By that point he appeared to have felt he had to save face because everyone was watching. At the same time, before they ended up fighting, when they were just arguing, it was said Batista should have let it go, but wouldn't, which is one of the reasons he was the one viewed negatively. Mysterio was said to be the last person Batista talked with before the guys left the two of them alone in the room, and he tried to talk Batista out of it. The first fight saw the two actually in a room. Everyone left and they shut the door. Booker's version was that he put his hand on the doorknob to close it, and got sucker punched. Booker came back and was doing some real damage. People heard the sound of fists meeting flesh, and after a very short period of time, maybe 30 seconds, the door was opened and people saw Booker on top pounding on Batista, and the wrestlers broke it up. Batista was screaming to let it continue, so they did, and Booker was again getting the better of it. Batista in the second round grabbed Booker's braids and tried to throw knees from the clinch like you'd see in a Muay Thai style fight, well, aside from the fact you can't pull someone's hair but you can drive their head down and throw knees up, but the best they could do was hit Booker's elbow. Booker was taunting him, saying, "Is that all you've got" and "Your hitting my elbows." One version is Sharmell kicked Batista low and he went down, which may have been a factor in the later Melina-Sharmell incident. When it was pulled apart by Angle, JBL, Finlay and others, it was said that was when Batista got a good punch in, described as a sucker punch, which was the punch that swelled Booker's eye. After that, it was said Booker was really furious and vowing that some time and some place he'd get him back, saying, "I'm an OG," (slang for Original Gangsta), while Batista claimed Booker was a cancer to the locker room. Booker said, in front of everyone, that if anyone thinks he's a bad influence in the locker room to say it, and nobody would. Batista was apparently surprised that none of the wrestlers agreed with him. The general feeling is Booker is a laid back guy who doesn't bother anyone, and has no reputation for starting trouble. Booker looked at Lashley in particular and asked him, and Lashley said to Booker that he'd always helped him out and given him good advice. Sharmell also cut a promo on Batista somewhere in there. There was a general feeling coming from several different sources that Batista deserved what he got. Even people you would expect to back Batista were taking Booker's side in this. I don't want to say that everyone now believes it was real, because there are still skeptics, but there are very few of them at this point. We're told there were no plans to book these two against each other in a program before hand (of course, if it was an angle, McMahon wouldn't let anyone know ahead of time so that would have to be the case). We're also told there are no plans to do so now, either. I guess time will tell on that one, but for whatever reason, there really hasn't been all that much interest in this past the minor curiosity stuff for a day. While the two did do a personal appearance together and even posed for photos on the company's web site and have agreed to put it past them, the bitterness definitely still remains. Booker is more liked generally as "one of the guys" and Batista is more seen as a guy who was handpicked for stardom as opposed to having earned it, and is more mends with the top guys. Still, with the exception of people in OVW, and they more didn't like Batista for what he said about OVW after leaving than anything he did when he was there, I’ve heard few people negative about Batista as a person. Those in OVW only recall Batista once getting into it with another wrestler, and that was an incident with the late Robbie Dicks (Robbie D), where the story is Dicks, who was really a junior heavyweight, got the better of the situation, but Dicks had a rep for being a tough guy and was a star college wrestler. He was sort of handed it, but the truth is, it was more handed by the fans. The fans chose him over Randy Orton, who was really the hand picked guy. They paid big on PPV from Survivor Series through Backlash last year to see his chase of HHH. But with limited ability in the ring, not that many years experience, and less than superlative promos (although his promos by no means are bad and in my opinion, get the job done), you can see where some jealousy would be possible, particularly since Batista has been outspoken on his own opinions. There is a weird caste system about who is "allowed" to speak candidly without reprisals, and who isn't, and Batista is at the pecking order level where he should be, but because of his relative lack of inexperience, there were underlying problems in people's minds because of it. Judgement Day News There was a lot of news behind-the-scenes relating to WWE Judgement Day, which as a show itself, was one of those shows that looked like one to skip, on paper, but delivered far more than expected. The 5/21 show at the U.S. Airways Center in Phoenix was boosted by a sellout crowd announced at 15,421 fans, and featured several major plot twists, both in front of the camera and behind-the-scenes. The original plan for the main event was for JBL to win the World title in the main event from Rey Mysterio. An angle suggestion was made, apparently involving Chavo Guerrero interfering, for the title change to be moved to a Smackdown episode, most likely on 5/30 in Portland. Mysterio retaining the title on this show was finalized at a meeting toward the end of last week, but at that point the plan was still for Guerrero to interfere and cause the title change on Smackdown. One of the reasons Mark Henry and Great Khali were put over Mysterio so strong, and JBL was going to, was that since Mysterio was going to leave and have knee surgery done, the feeling was to treat it like a guy "leaving a territory" and to put over a few heels on the way out. When he returned, his character would be freshened up and he'd rebound from those losses. Of course, doing the Guerrero angle would seem to postpone the surgery, although it also could be that Guerrero could "injure" him as the reason. Right now, that appears off. For reasons that haven't been said, the decision was made this past week to keep the title on Mysterio for the time being. The speculation as to why the decision was made looks to have been two things. The first is JBL has a serious back injury and needs time off, and his injury is now more pressing than Mysterio’s. JBL is expected to be out for three months due to chronic knee and back problems, so his title run was canceled for now. The idea going around is that Bobby Lashley would get the U.S. title and then JBL would be "injured" in that match and leave. . Changing the finish on this show, which as noted last week, was planned for more than a week ahead of time, had nothing to do with the JBL injury. Changing the plans to not include JBL winning, as well as his dropping the U.S. title, at least partially had to do with his injury, but there were other factors involved in the decision to keep the title on Mysterio. Nobody really expected Mysterio to draw as champion since there is still the mentality about small guys and all that, but he got the title because the storyline they were working meant he would have to get it at some point this year. A funny thing happened. While ratings are down, badly now to the point we are now at Thunder levels, it is still the Mysterio segments that carry whatever somewhat anemic ratings there are most weeks. While Smackdown sold out in San Diego that was his hometown. This show in Phoenix doing a sellout and a crowd pretty much unprecedented for a Smackdown only PPV, as well as gates post-Mania being generally above expectations led to the realization that Mysterio was drawing. Of course, the way he's been booked on TV has likely done more harm than good to that, but that was done because they expected him to take time off. With all the other injuries, it appears he is not going to take time off for at least the next two months. Smackdown hasn't had a champion who has drawn at the house shows in some time. They are clearly starting the Guerrero angle, and I just can't see Mysterio vs. Guerrero being a title program. But with JBL at least off house shows, if not completely out, for a while, there is a terrible death of top heels. I just can't see them giving the title to Booker, although he'd probably be no worse at being champ than anyone else, and. don't even want to think about Mark Henry in that spot. Randy Orton is coming back in a few weeks, but I just don't see them putting the title on him right away, even if the cold business move would be to do so, just because I think he's going to have to show he's learned and earn it. We're told there are no plans to take the title off Mysterio, and the plans are to book him as champion at least through the Great American Bash (7/23 in Indianapolis). Of course, plans change on a weekly basis with so much going on behind-the-scenes. The show ended with Mysterio having pinned JBL, and Guerrero in the ring congratulating him. Perhaps they were afraid in the market that Guerrero would be cheered if he turned on Mysterio, because Phoenix fans think of Eddie Guerrero as a home town wrestler, even though he only lived there about two weeks before his death. Vickie Guerrero was also at the show, going over a script with Chavo for whatever direction this is going, as I guess she'll be involved. She has still not sold her home in Phoenix, but it is for sale and she is planning now on moving back to El Paso, where she grew up. The other big story on the show came out of the opener, where WWE's best hope for a traditional tag team in years, MNM, consisting of Johnny Nitro & Joey Mercury, managed by Melina, split up and went at it after losing the tag titles to Paul London & Brian Kendrick Later in the show, after Melina was embarrassed two more times, she went crazy and slapped Teddy Long. This led Long to "fire" both Melina and Nitro. While the angles were all well done, on the surface it appears to make no sense. Mercury is the guy who does most of the match layout, and is really the brains and glue holding the tag team together, even though he's the least charismatic of the three. Due to his size and style, he will likely flounder as a single. Melina has star potential, even though she's clearly hit a major divot in the road as she's rubbed a lot of the locker room the wrong way. For whatever this is worth, the talk is that she has developed an ego and doesn't work well with the other women. Nitro has heat, apparently for being tight with her. While this team had more potential, in many ways this is reminiscent of the Bodydonnas with Sunny. Sunny got heat with everyone and the team got dropped. But away from the unit, both former Bodydonnas went nowhere because they had so much more star potential as a tag than as singles. The reasoning behind it is Mercury is being sent to rehab and will be off TV and the road indefinitely. With Melina and Nitro having so much heat in the Smackdown locker room, they are going to be taken off the road for the time temporarily. When they return, they will be on Raw as a singles act. There had been a long-term vague plan to do this maybe two years down the road, thinking eventually Nitro managed by Melina could be a top heel pairing, this was terribly premature, but under the circumstances, the decision was made to do it now. To me, unless the decision is made not to use Mercury any longer, or just as a jobber, because inevitably, that's what he'll be on his own (originally, even though they were a unit in OVW, when WWE planned to bring them up, they were going with Chris Cage as Nitro's partner and the main reason it didn't happen was Cage suffered a tom pec at the time they were bringing them up), there are other ways to work around it. MNM, like the Spirit Squad on Raw, have the ability to be in major programs high on the card as tag champions, but somewhere along the way they were phased down. Anyway, the feeling is because the hand dealt the company, there was no other way it could be handled. The break-up of the team leaves London & Kendrick with only Kid Kash & Jamie Noble as the makeshift Pitbulls copy tag team, as challengers. Gymini, who could have been set for the role, although would not have been effective in it, has one member injured. The other ballsy booking move was putting Great Khali over stronger than anyone in probably 15 or so years, maybe dating back to Undertaker's arrival, where he destroyed Dusty Rhodes. Khali took no bumps (for the better), sold very little, and pinned Undertaker after a chop to the head and a kick to the face. Khali stood up and put his foot on Undertaker's chest. Nobody in the building, or watching on TV, thought it was the finish. Undertaker did no post-match sit-up. The explanation was that Vince McMahon recognized he screwed up with Big Show, when it came to booking him like Andre the Giant, a level many predicted for show that he never achieved, and was determined to do it right with Khali. Of course, the negative so many have is that once people see how bad Khali is, they'll have wasted the push on someone who won't have legs at the top. It was pretty well conceded that having Undertaker beat him would have killed him right away, and Undertaker's character can survive a loss. But the ending was flat live. People have seen Undertaker survive so much, and for him to lay down after such a weak finishing sequence and without even being covered (Khali doesn't get up and down well, which is another reason he didn't even take one bump), was a shock, but not an "Oh My God" shock but a "this is bs." shock, particularly because to the live audience, he laid in the ring without moving for several minutes. Through camera angles, lifts in boots, destroying top faces and not having him sell, thus far the Khali experiment, at least for this night, seemed to work, in that the crowd was intrigued by the match, and didn't die even during the many moments where Khali tried to do something and it was cringe-worthy bad. By no means did they tear down the house, but it took a tremendous performance by Undertaker just to take it out of negative stars. Undertaker and Khali were rehearsing the match, move-¬by-move, in the afternoon. They brought a very thick air mattress into the ring for Undertaker to bump on, as they were that concerned about Khali not dropping him safely. In the end, Khali didn't even do his neck hanging tree slam, and they wouldn't risk anything more than a chop to the top of the head and a kick as the finishing sequence. Overall, the strength of the show, aside from the Benoit-Finlay match which was just a classic old-school hardass match, was the writing. Everything flowed together and everything seemed to have a purpose by the end of the night. It wasn't overbooked for overbooking sake, and even the bad finishes were saved by good post-matches. You don't find a lot of WWE shows where you can say that. A. Matt Hardy pinned Simon Dean in the dark match. Neither TNA nor WWE are airing a live pre-game show with matches, and instead both are doing pre-taped studio shows on the PPV channel in the final 30 minutes. 1. Paul London & Brian Kendrick beat Johnny Nitro & Joey Mercury to win the WWE tag titles in 13:43. They tried to pace this like a Rock & Roll Express vs. Midnight Express match. No doubt Nitro & Mercury were taught tag team wrestling in OVW by studying those exact matches. London threw Kendrick over the top rope and he flip dived on both MNM members. London missed a high' crossbody and they got heat on him. Kendrick made the hot tag. London tagged in after heat on Kendrick, getting a great near fall with an Oklahoma side roll on Mercury. London did a cool spot where he did his dropsault, dropkicking Nitro off the apron and landing with a splash on Mercury in the same move. Finish saw Nitro holding London and Mercury ran toward him. London escaped and Mercury collided with Nitro, who fell on Melina. In the ring, London did a sunset flip on Mercury and then rolled one more time, into a folding press. Melina started browbeating Mercury for losing, then shoved him and finally slapped him. Nitro blindsided Mercury and pounded on him, but Mercury made a good comeback Melina went to kick Mercury in the head, but kind of missed. Melina ended up kicking a reflow. Teddy Long came out and I think he was bumped at one point. I think it was way premature, like a year minimum, to break up the team, but it was done great. ***1/2 2. Chris Benoit beat Fit Finlay in 21:10. Loud "Benoit" chants at the start, due to the Eddie Guerrero connection. This was a classic style match, worked like an old-school 70s style match'. They did a 90 second collar-and-elbow tie-up both inside and outside the ring. Finlay told the ref he was poked in the eyes (was he facing Chuck Liddell or something?) and as Benoit was distracted by the ref, Finlay took over. Finlay did a move where he sat on the mat, pulled on both of Benoit's arms while using his feet to push down on Benoit's head. Benoit came back with three German suplexes but missed a diving head-BUTT. Benoit did a baseball slide, kicking a chair into Finlay's ribs. He followed with a diving head¬BUTT to the ribs for a near fall. Benoit was bleeding from the mouth. Finlay used a chicken wing/dragon sleeper combination. He also did a few kneedrops that looked far too believable. After a German suplex on the floor by Benoit, and the three amigos inside the ring, Benoit got the submission with the cross face. **** 3. Jillian Hall pinned Melina in 4:18. The ref gave Nitro the boot before the match started. Instead of doing the usual women's stuff, both tried to do a men's style match. They weren't given time and were in a tough position at their level trying to wrestle and follow the previous match. Better than expected. Hall won with a sunset flip, but Melina's hand was on the ropes for the pin. After the match; Kristal Marshall was interviewing Melina. Melina blew her cool and attacked Marshall, but Marshall beat Melina up as well. You know things are bad when you lose three times in the same night. *1/4 . 4. Gregory Helms pinned Super Crazy in 9:55 to retain the cruiserweight title. Crazy was one of the most popular wrestlers on the show. This match, in this position, would have died in a lot of cities, but was strong here. When Crazy did a la magistral, Tazz called it a Bandido. Maybe it is somewhere. Nick Patrick blocked Crazy doing a tope, so he sprung off Patrick's back with a flip dive to the floor. There was a loud "ECW" chant. Crazy then went in the comer with ten punches and people counted in Spanish, which they haven't done in five years. Well, except at the last ECW show. Crazy did a dropkick off the top for a near fall, but missed a moonsault Helms missed a shining wizard; Helms did all kinds of versions of neckbreakers, including a blockbuster off the ropes for a near fall. Man, of all people to steal Buffs finisher. Helms won with a power bomb with his feet on the ropes. **3/4

I prefer that too. As I said, it's just that this week it was written in such a manner that I was going to write just as much if I paraphrased, and I decided to copy it all. If I post the WWE news next week, I'll go back to paraphrasing.

I am the sole writer of said news site, and at no point have I ever copied and pasted a block of thousands of words of text from anyone's newsletter. Maybe two times ever have I ever printed two or three paragraphs from a newsletter word for word, which you see all the time in books and newspapers. You are a smart guy, you know the difference between using an excerpt and an actually taking the time to physically convert a hard copy of a newsletter to digital format so that people can read it without paying for it. I am sure you simply a nice guy trying to spread the wealth, I don't think you mean any harm. This is all. So, did you get permission then?

Something else to consider for ONS. It's a free special over in the UK, which means the buy rate is going to be down 30-50,000 from what it could be.

It was only ever going to be what Vince McMahon wanted it to be. What the fans wanted isn't even a consideration.

There are only three acceptable finishes to Joe vs. Steiner, and, in order, they are: Joe wins via choke out Joe wins via pinfall An out of control and wild double DQ, which leads to a rematch with either of the first two finishes. Anything else is going to get over like a whore in church, and Steiner winning is absolutely not an option, in any way, shape or form.

I'm guessing the match was put together with the idea that the ECW fans would lap up the first ever meeting between Sabu and Rey, and that they'll forget about Sabu getting beaten in the haze of witnessing a historic match. If Sabu is going to lose, and it doesn't seem like we'll get any other result, he has to look competitive and go toe-to-toe with Rey, so at least he gains something in defeat, that being at least looking on an equal level to the official World Champion.

What stands out for me is how badly the domestic PPV audience has fallen. With Backlash only getting in the 130,000 range for domestic buys, it seems like we're getting closer to the sub-100,000 level, and that's not something you can really put a positive spin on.

So, has anybody got something to say about the actual news or can I close this?

Sabu isn't winning the belt, and it's likely that he's getting beaten clean. That part doesn't make sense, given that he's meant to be helping the new ECW get over and his first match in will see, one thinks, a clean loss.

If it's that big of a deal, I'll go back to paraphrasing the WWE news from the Observer. The main reason I did a full scan/transcription this week is that news was such that I’d have written just as much whatever I did, and I decided to just go all out and scan/transcribe it all. I notice that the news site that Haas of Pain promotes in his sig, and I think he writes for it as well, has transcripts and excerpts of copyrighted material as part of its content. Can I assume that permission was obtained from Ring of Honor, Pro Wrestling Torch, etc, before this material was used?

When he left wrestling, people started underrating him. Maybe the thread starter could back up some of the opinions he apparently has as well.

While "guys like" Sabin, Lethal a Dutt might not be contenders for the top spot in the heavyweight picture, they very well could be top guys in the X-Division, which is meant to be one of the cornerstones of TNA and is something they try and promote as something to differentiate themselves from WWE. I don’t know how degrading and making a joke out of a division that you trumpet as your calling card and something that makes you the better alternative to WWE is a good thing, but evidently some people think it’s great business, so more power to them. It's given them television time, but there are a million better ways to use that time than make the whole division seem like a joke.

Sometimes, the mail van comes on Saturday. I think somebody on here, maybe Dangerous A, sometimes gets theirs on Wednesday or Thursday somehow, possibly because they live right near to Dave.

On WOL last night, Meltzer said it wasn't a sellout and there was a fair bit of papering as well. The commentary was very good, and I'd like the three-man team of Goldberg, Rogan and Couture to do at least the Ultimate Fight Nights, if not all their PPV's from now on. The main event, while not technically a great fight, was pure magic from a spectacle and emotion standpoint. It was surreal watching Hughes twist Gracie's arm to where it Gracie had to be in tremendous pain and yet Gracie didn't show it.