Big Ol' Smitty

how?

How?

I don't know this "shit" becuase I just never read much about the court cases--I've never been that interested in AA. If someone had been vociferously defending AA I probably would have attacked it--it's just a way for me to learn more about things. And it is working because I am learning more. And one schmuck on a message board (me) putting forth an errant justification for AA does not make the whole system wrong. The Michigan cases struck down my previous justification (AA as elimination of unfair benefits) but still ruled that that race can be one of many factors considered by colleges when selecting their students because it furthers "a compelling interest in obtaining the educational benefits that flow from a diverse student body". According to the SC, it promoted a "compelling state interest" in diversity at all levels of society--I guess that's the SC's justification of AA. "A record number of "friend-of-court" briefs were filed in support of Michigan's affirmative action case by hundreds of organizations representing academia, business, labor unions, and the military, arguing the benefits of broad racial representation. As Sandra Day O’Connor wrote for the majority, "In order to cultivate a set of leaders with legitimacy in the eyes of the citizenry, it is necessary that the path to leadership be visibly open to talented and qualified individuals of every race and ethnicity." Source: http://www.infoplease.com/spot/affirmative1.html I would be open for convincing as to why AA is no longer needed. You stated that it was once necessary but is no longer, I think.

What's my idea? Please explain Gruder v. Bollinger to me. I've basically just been throwing things out here. Like I said, I'm not even completely sold on AA, either. And I'm flattered that you called me Jesus.

"China emits 2,893 million metric tons of CO2 per year (2.3 tons per capita). This compares to 5,410 million from the USA (20.1 tons per capita), and 3,171 million from the EU (8.5 tons per capita). China has since ratified the Kyoto Protocol, and is expected to become an Annex I country within the next decade. The US Natural Resources Defense Council, stated in June 2001 that: "By switching from coal to cleaner energy sources, initiating energy efficiency programs, and restructuring its economy, China has reduced its carbon dioxide emissions 17 percent since 1997"

Aussies aren't a race, and Jews are just another group of white people as far as most Americans are concerned. I wish some folks would get together, restore the economy to it's Clinton-era "glory" so can avoid 4 more years of how Bush is bed with big corporations. Iraq. End it. Don't care how. Hand it to the U.N. and watch them screw it up worse, I guess. Once we're down to the leftists whining about a president "raping the environment" and pretending as if they've personally dumped a million barrels of nuclear waste into our rivers and streams because they've slightly loosened pollution controls (and refuses to follow Kyoto, like every other industrialized nation is right now, you know), then we know everything's okay. As of November 2004, 127 countries have ratified the protocol, including Canada, People's Republic of China, India, Japan, New Zealand, Russia and the twenty-five countries of the European Union, as well as Romania and Bulgaria. Fourteen other countries have signed the protocol but not ratified it. Of those six are Annex I countries: Australia (not intending to ratify) Croatia Liechtenstein Monaco Switzerland -- Switzerland passed the CO2 law on October 8, 1999 which should allow it to achieve its target of 8% below 1990 levels by 2010. The Kyoto Protocol has been ratified by the Senate but not yet by the House of Representatives. [5] (http://www.admin.ch/uvek/doku/presse/1999/d/99100802.htm) [6] (http://www.ieta.org/Library_Links/IETAEnvNews/Dec13_Swiss.htm) United States -- The US, the largest emitter of greenhouse gases, does not intend to ratify the protocol. (See below) Some countries that have signed but not yet ratified are: Egypt, Indonesia, Kazakhstan, Philippines, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, and the Solomon Islands. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Treaty#Support_for_Kyoto

I thought it was this.

A MikeSC--seriously--what have I posted that was such bullshit. I really try not to post misleading things or things that I think are inaccurate. I thought you and I had a pretty good discussion in the "Iraqi Elections" thread. I posted the one partisan thing from the Nation about the Republican senators. Please don't hold the stupid shit I posted on election night against me. I was drunk and depressed =)

Yeah, I'd say Edwards in boned. He didn't really add much to the Kerry ticket and, in my opinion, got his ass handed to him by Cheney in the veep debate.

*oops*

Referencing to my habit? Learn some grammar there, big guy. I might not like everything you post, but I don't call it "bullshit". From this point on, I'm not going to attack you personally anymore. Flame me as you will.

All I did was try to present some information and you called it "bullshit" and then went on a rant about your "fucking idiotic" black bosses. Sounds like anger to me.

Whatever. You are an angry, angry man. And anecdotes aren't going to convince anyone of anything.

They could simply say "Hire the most qualified person". If a company is racist, it'll be made public and the public outcry will force them to change their ways immediately. Seems like a much better plan. -=Mike

A. R. Pratkanis & M. E. Turner, The proactive removal of discriminatory barriers: Affirmative action as effective help (1995). Manuscript submitted for publication. Reported in Faye Crosby, Audrey Murrell, John Dovidio, Rupert Nacoste, Anthony Pratkanis, Janet Helms, "Affirmative Action: Who Benefits?", a briefing paper of the American Psychological Association, Society for the Psychological Study of Social Issues, Society for the Psychological Study of Ethnic Minority Issues. A 1995 U.S. Department of Labor study found that whites filed only 3,000 reverse discrimination cases that year, and almost all of them were found to be without merit. Fewer than 100 cases actually involved reverse discrimination, and only in six cases could the claims be substantiated. Source: R. Wilson, Affirmative Action: Yesterday, Today, and Beyond (Washington, DC: American Council on Education, May, 1995).

Ugh...this is getting old but I guess I'll keep going. I'm not even completely sold on AA but I'll keep going. The system does not require a company to hire unqualified people to meet its goals. Also the goals are flexible, since they are derived from the (changing) number of qualified minority and female workers in the region. Also, if the company fails to meet its goal, the goal is simply re-established the next year -- and the next and the next, as long as the company fails to find qualified people. This is far different from a rigid quota system, in which a company must hire a certain percentage of minorities and women, or else be penalized by a judge.

Tom Coburn - Oklahoma The former doctor and three-term Congressman elected during the "Gingrich Revolution" of 1994 is undoubtedly the most right-wing member of his new Senate class. Coburn called his campaign against conservative Democrat Brad Carson "a battle of good vs. evil," suggested blacks have a genetic disposition toward a shorter life expectancy, and said "lesbianism is so rampant in some of the schools in southeast Oklahoma that they'll only let one girl go to the bathroom." Most noteworthy, Coburn favors "the death penalty for abortionists and other people who take life," explaining his ardent opposition by noting how his great-grandmother was raped by a territorial sheriff. Not surprisingly, he earned a 97 percent lifetime approval rating from the American Conservative Union (ACU). Jim DeMint - South Carolina A fellow three-term fundamentalist Christian Congressman, DeMint caused an uproar in his race against Democrat Inez Tenenbaum by saying that homosexuals and pregnant women with live-in boyfriends should be forbidden to teach in public schools. He opposes abortion even in the case of rape or incest and doesn't think gays should be able to adopt. A virulent supporter of strong national defense and unfettered free trade, DeMint told his opponents in a Republican primary debate to "stop whining about job losses." He advocates a flat federal income tax and co- sponsored a bill in the House to raise the national sales tax to a whopping 23 percent. DeMint matched Coburn's 97 percent lifetime rating from the ACU. Mel Martinez - Florida President Bush's former Housing Secretary earned rebukes from the state press for his dirty campaigning in the GOP primary and general election. The St. Petersburg Times took the unprecedented step of revoking its endorsement of Martinez after he ran ads calling his opponent--conservative Republican Bill McCollum--"the new darling of homosexual extremists" and "antifamily" for supporting bipartisan federal hate crime legislation and expanded stem cell research. Martinez accused his opponent in the general election--former state superintendent Betty Castor-- of allowing a "terrorist cell" at the University of South Florida, allegedly run by professor Sami Al-Arian. John Thune - South Dakota In his successful bid to knock off Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, the three- term Congressman pulled out every dirty trick in the book. In addition to illegally intimidating Native American voters, his campaign employed the "Southern Strategy" by sending out mailings reading "The dogs are lining up to vote for Tom Daschle,"--a reference to old racist store signs that used to say "No Dogs or Indians Allowed." As if blatant racism wasn't enough, Republicans sent out "Vote for Daschle and Vote for Sodomy" stickers to churches across the state. Finally, six South Dakota Republican campaign workers, including Thune's nephew, were forced to resign after forging absentee ballots, but later dispatched to help run ground operations for the GOP in Ohio. Thune would make Tony Soprano proud. David Vitter - Louisiana This far-right, family-values, three-term Congressman becomes the first Republican Senator elected in Louisiana since Reconstruction. As Vitter prepared to run for governor in 2002, the secretary of the Jefferson Parish Republican Party accused him of an 11-month affair with a prostitute. He denied the allegations but withdrew from the governor's race due to marital problems. Two years later Vitter--whom Charles Pierce calls "a polite David Duke"--ran for the Senate opposing all forms of abortion, gun control and affirmative action, prompting cries of racism in the heavily-African American state. He also ran possibly the most ludicrous ad of the political season, showing UN troops from Libya, North Korea and Cuba taking over Louisiana elections and lowering the American flag. Vitter even outdid his formidable arch-conservative colleagues by scoring a perfect 100 from the ACU in 2002, for a lifetime average of 93. Here they are folks. Your crazy new leaders. Get used to them. Source: The Nation

I'll accept your premise that eventually AA is going to have to end. But how are you so sure that now is the best time to end it? Maybe it is. I'm totally open to convincing.

It would be interesting to see how much of this gain is due to affirmative action.

how do you give it to her? just have it in your hand?

My program? I'm not even sure if it's the best way. I don't, however, think "your" idea that time will simply heal all wounds is necessarily true. For example, do you have evidence that the education gap is closing?

I will later...but just so that we understand each other... You are suggesting that racial discrimination no longer occurs at any significant level in employment?

There is a great deal of evidence that racial and gender discrimination and disparities continue in the American workplace. Studies of hiring practices consistently show that when a black man and a white man or a white woman and a white man have essentially the same job qualifications and interview habits, the white man will be chosen over the competitor as much as 45% more often.

The loss of undue privelege is not the same thing as the loss of rights.