RavishingRickRudo

And it was nothing like Hart/Austin. If anything, Eddie/Angle has the possibility of sorta being like that. Angle enhancing Eddie's anti-hero gimmick by playing the traditionalist who touts the values of playing by the rules (all the while not). And Cena will never be of Austin stature - given the current wrestling environment - no one will.

I can't fucking believe it. I have a crowd. *big ups all his homies* Though, really, it should be the RRR/AS crowd... I mean, c'mon... *points to self with thumbs - but not ala RVD* ...

I was about to put "aside from T-shirts"... so, "Aside from T-shirts". I'm mainly talking about PPV's, buyrates, on which angles and characters are based.

My god... have I become so separated from my childhood? I, for one, blame society.

YOUR GRUDGE Match and GRUDGE Fighters of the GRUDGE day ARE! Name: Frank Mir Nickname: The Fear (ok, I made it up) Height/Weight: 6’1 / 240 lbs MMA Record: 6 - 1 - 0 Style: BJJ From: USA Association: Ricardo Pires Jiu-Jitsu Last Fight vs. Wes Sims (Win *DQ* - UFC 43: Meltdown) vs. Name: Wes Sims Nickname: The Project Height/Weight: 6’9 / 255 lbs MMA Record: 4 – 2 – 0 Style: Wrestling From: USA Association: Hammer house Last Fight vs. Frank Mir (Loss *DQ* - UFC 43: Meltdown) And David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone, and slang it, and smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead; and he fell upon his face to the earth. So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David. - Samuel, Chapter 17, Verse 49 And Goliath stomped David against the fence as Goliath held on to the cage after David had PWN3D Goliath on the ground. So Big John stopped the fight and disqualified Goliath for breaking the rules and Goliath was mad. David said he was sorry to the crowd for his performance and Goliath said that David had played dirty and gauged his eyes. -Meltdown, UFC 43, Match 3 “Frank Mir vs. Wes Sims This match was going really good up until the DQ. If the UFC handles this right they could make quite the angle from it and maybe put a lil’ spark in the heavyweight division. Sims came off like a total jerk (or as Michael Cole would say “He’s a BULLY! Nothing but a big BULLY! Damn that BULLY!”) and Mir came off as big babyface esp. with apologizing for not defending himself. They could build up a giant killer angle/gimmick leading up to a title match with Tim Sylvia (who?). - Me, 6/9/2003 What do I have to do to sell this fight? Hell, I DON’T HAVE TO DO A THING! I can just let history tell and sell itself. When Frank Mir took on Wes Sims at UFC 43, there was no real incentive to care about which guy would win. They didn’t really have an issue. Sims was big, Frank Mir was getting a push – that was it. After the fight, I think just about everyone who saw it was dying for a rematch. First, it was an entertaining and active fight with Frank Mir basically in control for the whole thing. Second, it ended in something that everyone in MMA either loves or hates – CONTROVERSY~! Yes, the big Wes Sims decided that being big wasn’t enough, oh no, he had to be bad too. In a vicious display of anger and frustration Sims made some well placed stomps to Mir’s head (as seen in the picture above) and not only that, he was making very liberal use of the octagon cage. Needless to say, Mir was knocked for a loop after the encounter but he still had the win. But for us blood-thirsty, beer-drinking, and bible-reading fans, WE WANTED MORE. The issue just started at the end of the fight and we want to see who the better man is… or we want to see two guys who legit don’t like each other go at it in an all-out war…. Or we want the MMA equivalent of the biblical story David and Goliath….or we want to see more STOMPIN! YEAH! STOMPIN~! Frank Mir’s “coming out” party – at least to me – was at UFC 36. He beat Pete Williams. Okay, maybe that’s not all that impressive. But it’s in HOW he did it which raised my eyebrows – he basically won with a one-armed kimura… a move that will probably never be seen again in MMA competition. He also has had the distinction of tapping out Tank Abbot at UFC 41 – a very rare feat that only those skillful artists such as former Joe Son Do practitioner Kimo can do. Nevertheless, the UFC wants Frank Mir as one of their top stars… after all, “he’s the only fighter out there that the ladies show any interest in” says Live Audio Wrestling host Dan “the mouth” Lovranski. Since marketability is a key component in the success of anything, I guess that’s not such a bad idea. Wes Sims is like the Albert of the UFC. They already have big guys like Tim Sylvia and Gan McGee, so he doesn’t really stand-out. But he’s still pretty fucking big. Since he trains with some of the best wrestlers on the planet in the Hammer House, you have to think that the guy has some skills on the ground. However, as they say, on the ground EVERYONE is the same size… so the key in winning for a big man such as “The Project” is in stand-up. The problem is, while the Hammer House is damn good at wrestling, they-ain’t-so-hot at striking. Whether or not this is a problem for Sims will remain to be seen. Sims, despite his poor sportsmanship, still managed to get out of Mir’s submission attempts and had the stand-up position at the end of the fight – which is definitely a problem if you’re Frank Mir. Mir, however, has faced tougher competition than Sims and was dominant for the greater part of the fight, so the edge has to go to him. Either way, this is a fight that I have wanted for 7 months and am eagerly waiting to see.

So are you saying that Lance should have a chicken fetish?

*recalls Eddie Guerrero spraying shit* *recalls Kurt Angle rapping* ... I'm sorry, what?

You can't just dismiss what the announcers says - they are the representatives of the company; they say what the company wants you to believe. Lesnar holding the belt up to Holly as if to say "it's mine, you'll never get it" is certainly putting the emphasis on the title; it would be MUCH better if Brock started holding his neck or motioning the powerbomb to mock Holly. The first part of your post I do like, however The aspect of getting injured and not being able to defend would be PERFECT - especially with the Rumble being there. The possibility of the title being vacated and all these possible contenders out there would certainly put more interest and importance on the match.

Can you name me some Comedy-based angles or characters who have made money? Seriously... comedy is for the mid-card, drama is for main eventers. Comedy can comprimise drama, especially if you don't do it right - which the WWE never does. People don't look up to clowns, they look DOWN on them. No one wants to BE them. They want to be the heros.

That would be really interesting psychology leading up to and IN the match... whether or not Holly wants the belt or Brock. The key moment is when Holly lifts up a chair and could either get DQ'd-lose-the-belt-but-still-hurt-Brock-physically OR set-up-for-his-finisher-and-take-the-belt-and-hurt-Brock-professionally-as-well-as-emotionally. But again, this is something that is actually "good" - the WWE can't do that. They must do what they always do; the basic title chase. Cole has talked about Brock being worried about his title, Brock has always shown his title to Holly, Holly has made gestures saying he wants the belt - they rarely ever talk about him getting his neck broken.

Weight has it's positives and negatives. If you carry around too much of it, you will tire quickly since it uses up your energy. However, it also makes you stronger since you naturally and comfortably carry it around. Bob Sapp is the perfect example of that. On strength alone he was able to challenge Nog. However, he got tired and Mino was able to armbar him. Randy Couture, however, cut weight and was able to move around faster and out-muscle the lightheavyweights, where as a heavyweight he was beaten by Barnett and Rodriguez - two significantly bigger (and skillful) guys. However, cutting weight can dramatically effect your performance if you don't do it right - you have to be used to fighting at a weight and adapt. Couture used to fight at 205 when he was wrestling amateurly so it came more natural to him (no pun intended). I can't think off the top of my head of an example of where a guy cut weight and was effected by it, but the methods inwhich they use (laxitives, sweating it off) dehydrates and therefore drains the energy from you. You overheat, you can't cool yourself effectively, you breathe harder. What's too heavy and what's too light is subject to each individual fighter. At the next UFC event we will see B.J. Penn (highly skilled BJJ fighter) against Matt Hughes. Penn is moving UP in weight, while Matt Hughes could effectively fight as a middleweight or even light heavyweight (it's a welterweight match). Matt Hughes has managed to beat his opponents basically on strength alone (a skilled fighter, yes, but he has a tendancy to pick up his opponents like they were nothing in their matches and control them on the ground). The great thing about BJJ is that it's meant for smaller guys (which Penn is) against bigger guys, since they use weight and strength against their opponents. Buy the PPV to find out how it will turn out The more skilled fighters get, the more important weight will become. If you have 10 pounds on a guy, the longer that fight goes, the heavier those 10 pounds become. If you're on top of a guy, you can rest yourself and he still has to fight against the weight.

The WWE positioned it all wrong. The reason why Holly (should be) a threat is because he's on a kamikaze mission. He doesn't care about winning the title, he just cares about getting revenge and hurting Brock at any cost. That's why he was DQ'd so early from the Survivor Series. Now, what they could have done was taken someone like Benoit - who couldn't fight Brock any more - and take Holly aside and tell him to calm down and that there's a better way of exacting his revenge. A more calculated way. That would give the current situation a sense of reality - rather than Bob changing his motives without any explanation. Now, it's still Bob Holly, so him as a viable title contender doesn't work. The key is on his wreckless abandonment. "How can you beat a man who doesn't care about losing?" - Brock has never faced that before; he's always been worried about people taking his belt, not his life. This is a whole new area for him, he doesn't know how to deal with it, this helplessness, this weakness, is new to him - he's scared. How does he deal with fear?? etc. etc. So it's not a question of accepting Bob Holly as a title contender, it's a question of accepting Bob Holly as someone who can injure Brock Lesnar... and given his Tough Enough experience beating up Matt and him getting his arm broken by Angle, and getting dropped on his head by Brock, I think that's a smaller "leap" for the audience to make than "Bob Holly, next WWE champion." But this requires character development and motivation - can't have that in the WWE.

Nothing really new said here in terms of anti-flair sentiment. Though it sorta warms my heart to hear it said as a Hogan mark

I think it's may be because Storm is seen as "the next Bret Hart" - or was positioned as such in WCW. I think the 'Times - next to Calgary - has the biggest Bret Hart fanbase in Canada...

They have a hard enough time writing for 2 shows a week - you're asking them for 4?! ARE YOU MAD?!

NOOOO! I need those points to buy the enchanged battle axe to slay the dragon so I can drink the magical elixir and finally become king wizard! YOU CAN'T TAKE THAT FROM ME!

It was SO not better. Or sure, I dunno, I didn't see it nor did I see a lot of RAW or Smackdown - but it was good. I like that. I want more of that. Albert vs. Bradshaw Best of 7 Series on Velocity, mmm hmmm.

WOW! TRISH POSING!!! HOOOOOOOLY! ON CONFIDENTIAL! GOSH! NEVER SEEN THIS BEFORE!!! Albert vs. Bradshaw was the MOTW btw. That was some gooood action.

I think some people don't understand how this category has worked over the years and how people have voted. Here's a little background. Selected WON Most Overrated Winners and Runner-Ups: 1982: Backlund - Runner-Up 1983: Backlund - 1st 1984: Hogan - Runner-Up 1985: Hogan - 1st 1986: Hogan - 1st 1987: Hogan - Runner-Up 1989: Hogan - Runner-Up 1996: Hogan - 1st 1997: Hogan - 1st 1998: Hogan - 1st Hogan had other high finishes over the years, but I wanted to just touch on those years where it's not defensible given the way posters in this thread are trying to claim to know what this category has always been about. The category has rarely been about people getting big pushes "they didn't deserve", unless "I don't like Wrestler X" was the definition of "didn't deserve". I put the Backlund on in since it was a year where he not only drew huge, but he also had the same number of matches placing in the Match of the Year category as Ric Flair did - three each. Of course Backlund also won the "Most Disgusting Occurence of 1982" simply for remaining WWF champ, so one does have some idea of where WON voters were coming from that year. In 1983, Backlund was not as good of a worker as he had been, but the company still drew with him on top. Perhaps 1983 is defensible, but 1982 doesn't seem so. Some quotes: "I naturally picked Backlund first for reasons everyone knows." -Dave Meltzer, 1983 WON Yearbook: Most Overrated "The are so many you have to pick only the most offensive -- Hulk Hogan, Dusty Rhodes and Sgt. Slaughter." -Dave Meltzer, 1985 WON Yearbook: Most Overrated "Who do we want to pick on and how much?" -Dave Meltzer, 1986 WON Yearbook: Most Overrated There are countless quotes that Dave chose to publish in the 1984-89 Yearbooks where voters explained their hate for Hogan... I mean the justification for voting for biggest drawing wrestler in the business as "The Most Overrated Wrestler of the Year". I pointed out in the prior thread that this is a category that lost it's innocence a long time ago. I didn't specify that it was lost "on the first date" (the original 1982 voting). But this is where people are coming from when voting for Angle. If it's a-o-kay to vote for a massive drawing champ who has some MOTYCs in 1982 or The Biggest Draw In The World from 1984-1989 and in essence looking down your nose at the rube fans filling the seats for those guys "overrate" him, it's a-o-kay to toss a vote at Angle because certain people who think he's one of the best workers of all-time "overrate" him. People really need to get over defending the nobility or honor of this category. It's never had any, and instead has just been a spot for voters to crack jokes, or simply crack on people they don't like. If you doubt it, you can look it up. John, who will credit Dave, notwithstanding the quotes above, for being more level headed in voting in this one than most of his torch carrying readers wanting to light wrestlers up... - JDW http://wrestlingclassics.com/.ubb/ultimate...ic;f=7;t=000229 I will further note that 7 of the 10 wrestlers selected in the "most overrated" were also featured in the "most hated" category.

You're confusing me. "Best" and "Greatest" are not the same - and even then, you'd have to define both and how they relate to wrestling. (Greatest would have more to do with influence, money making, crowd response, etc. - Best would do with quality of ring work, psychology, story, pacing, etc.) Then you say "series" of matches, and the title of the thread says "Match". And then there's the whole issue of "all time, world wide" which no one can actually say since we haven't seen all the matches that have ever gone on in the world. But I can say this: Flair/Steamboat ain't one of em

"Why you on yo knees Wanderlei? Get off yo knees, man!" vs. Eh, Angle hasn't really said anything good in the last year...

*Cena sneaks into womens locker room* Cena: Hee, hee, hee. Torrie: John, what are you doing here? Cena: Hee, hee, HUH?! Torrie: John, men are not allowed in the womens locker room. Could you please leave? Cena: Torrie, YOU CAN'T SEE ME! Torrie: Yes I can. You're right in front of me. You're wearing LA Gear shoes which lights up at the bottom when you walk, acid wash jeans, and a Chip and Pepper T-shirt... seriously John, you're taking this throw-back thing a lil too seriously. Cena: Um... er.... yo, bitch, I don't know what you talkin about - I'm just in the womens locker room cause I smelled trout. So stop standin there and gimmie bait, cause I'm hopin it ain't that time of the month and you late... Torrie: What does that even mean? *Cena has a mental breakdown*

He's saying he's invisible, AS. So you can't see him. He's delusional - he thinks he's a ghost or Clay Aiken, or both.

btw, what's the deal with all these "love/hate" threads??? Isn't there a folder for this??

Whatever the two buzzlines are for Smackdown and RAW - I know Smackdown has "Smack your TV" and RAW is about breaking the rules, or something. Yeah, those suck.