RavishingRickRudo

Buffy is in Europe. Know what I noticed about Buffy in that eps? She looked hot. Yeah. Tell me about it. What I lllloooovvve about the Gift is that *everyone* has "their own" scene. Almost like a moment of clearity. Xander and Anya have their basement scene, Giles and Buffy have their training scene, Willow and Tara have their hugging scene, Dawn and Buffy have their pre-death scene, Spike and Buffy have their stair scene. They may not be long, but they're very effective. They give an ~EPIC~ sense to the show. Those small scenes gave a totality to it all - that everyone and everything is effected and that what will happen in the next few hours will determine the rest of their lives. There's a feeling that "everything has built towards this" (it doesn't hurt that they do a "Previously on Buffy" of the entire series to that point ) It didn't really establish anything; we all knew Giles had a dark past, we knew that Anya and Xander loved each other, we knew that Spike knows that Buffy doesn't and can't love him, we know that Buffy will give her life for Dawn, we know Tara and Willow love each other... but I think those scenes really did justice to those relationships and characters. If you watch that eps. you will "get" each and every person on that show.

No. No I don't. I don't remember anything from that year.... Now lets never speak of it again.

It's in regards to the WM 19 match (actually it's in general, I believe, but the WM 19 match is the best/most recent example of Shawns rather sporadic selling). "Adrenaline" in most cases is not a legitimate excuse for no selling. I can understand its use in matches where it is built and developed, but in terms of random no-selling (like the nip up was), there is no reason for it (other than for a pop - which I understand and accept... just don't try and pass it off as "good" and anything more than that). Wrestling matches are supposed to tell a story, "Adrenaline" tends to go against the story being told. If someone gets beat up for a long time they shouldn't just pop up like nothing happened.

...Of 1995?

I believe it's in regards to "success = good"

There was like... no mcmahons at all... on both Raw and Smackdown... When was the last time THAT happened?

And how many HBK matches have you seen if you've never seen him collapse. Also, who's to say in the kayfabe world that he didn't eventually collapse backstage after a match? Do you really need them to draw you a diagram, or are you of the RRR school of thought where "if I didn't see it, it didn't happen". In wrestling, the axiom "Show don't tell" should always apply. You know, since wrestlers generally can't "talk" in the ring and use their bodies and movement to tell the story. HBK has a bad back - we've been told this countless times in the past. We've been shown it as well with him in a wheelchair. In that match, we were shown that Jericho wanted to work HBK's back. Were we told that it hurt HBK? Yes and No. Sometimes it did, sometimes it didn't... can you see the problem here?? Besides, he came out the next night on RAW and beat up HHH and Jericho.

"Adrenaline" is a COP OUT for bad selling. Who decides when a burst of adrenaline comes? What is the appropriate time? Is there any? "Adrenaline" cannot be SEEN in the match. Why should we, the viewer, ASSUME that it's "Adrenaline" that is driving them? Especially when they come at inopportune times. "Oooh I'm so hurt and tired... wait, NO I'M NOT... Wait.. yes I am... WAIT NO I AM NOT... Yes... yes I am... NO, here it comes again, 3rd wind! YEAH!" It's ridiculous. It's allowing for sloppy storytelling and poor selling. It completely negates ALL of the work done by the opponent and essentially makes the time we spent watching the beatdown, the bodywork, etc. WORTHLESS. It's wrestlings way of saying "It was all a dream". Hello? He wasn't fucked. Jericho got him down with a flying forearm. That was it. Before that, HBK was punching him and had given him a DDT. HBK - a guy who was in a wheelchair after a sledgehammer shot, a guy who retired for 4 years because of his back - was taking some intense punishment to his back before the nip up. So stop trying to discount adrenaline, you stupid McFucks. It's more powerful than any man-made drug, and has been known to seemingly give people the strength of 10 men (the entire "mother trying to save child" syndrome). Ah, so the situation where HBK did the nip up was life or death? It was NEEDED? No, of course not. It was for a crowd pop. Completely gratuitous. I give up. IT IS GOOD IN THAT IT IS PROFITABLE, NOT IN THE ASTHETIC SENSE, GODDAMMIT. Do you know what "Good" is? Especially in the context which (we) are using it in? "Excitement" is subjective. What is exciting for one person might not be exciting for another. The excitement from the first time I watch a match and the 5th time I watch a match will most likely be different (and lower). Yet what makes that match "Good" or "Bad" remains constant. Elements LIKE selling, LIKE story are what makes a match good. Oh, but that's being "over-analytical"... god forbid one pick out a discrepancy in a match. "Hey, didn't Luke get his hand cut off? Why is he still using it??" "Adrenaline, silly... and the Force... can't forget about the force." Go back to your one-dimensional "adrenaline is magical pixie dust" argument. Yes, because "It got a pop" sure has depth to it.

Say it with me now... Spoiler (Highlight to Read): Adrenaline

Eh, Cancer kills more. I guess it's about priorities

The main theme is Family (duh). The subsections of that are Love and Blood (as in there are two types of families - those connected by blood, and those connected by love). Buffy has two families - Xander, Willow & Giles (with Anya & Tara), and Dawn & Joyce. The best representation of this is in the eps. "Family" where Taras "bloodkin" come to take her back and Buffy & Gang stop them and declare themselves a family. Glory called Ben her "family". They were a family of circumstance, much like Buffy and Dawn. However, there was no love between them as there were with the Summer sisters. And extention of "family" is home. Home is where you make it. Some people realize that, some don't. Glory didn't and she would do anything to get back. "It doesn't matter where you came from, or, or how you got here. You are my sister." This is what Buffy said to Dawn in bloodties (where Dawn finds out she is the key). It is a reference to both family and home. Light and Darkness is another predominant theme in Buffy. They're contrasts. Buffy and Dawns relationship contrasted with Ben and Glorys. Dawn was "the light", Glory was from the darkness. Glory couldn't accept living on earth, Dawn could. Buffy was willing (and did) die for Dawn and saving the world. Ben wasn't strong enough. "Things get darkest before the get bright". Dracula said Buffys powers were rooted in darkness. Yet the First Slayer said, "You are full of love. You love with all of your soul. It's brighter than the fire ... blinding". Tara was "in the dark" after getting her brain sucked. At the end Buffy sees the sun rise and then jumps. "Love"-wise, I kinda went through that with April. Unconditional love, the love of a mother, etc. All of this comes crashing down in "The Body", but gets rebuilt in "The Gift". Buffy tells the gang "I love you all", but she loves Dawn more. So the blood, in this case where love is there, is thicker than water. "Love will bring you your gift". You'll find the word "love" in this season to be used A LOT. "Blood"-wise, it's a theme throughout. In "Dracula" Xander makes the comment "Blood is life" - even before it became important. Dawn cuts herself and asks if her blood is real. "Summers blood". "Why do you think Vampires drink it?...It makes you warm" - Spike. ...This is all very sloppy; but then again, I'm not getting marked on it ... The fun stuff in the gift is how previous things play a part in defeating Glory: Buffy Bot - I liked how they made the dialogue just believable enough for you to think its buffy - but upon further viewings you can see how it's Buffy bot. War Hammer - it's nifty cause Willow said an earlier eps. "we have to find something heavier" to hit Glory with... Buffy ultimately beats Glory with it. Dagansphere - weakens glory. Tara/Willow - Tara leads the gang to Glory, Willow takes some of Glorys power away. "GILES: But I've sworn to protect this sorry world, and sometimes that means saying and doing ... what other people can't. What they shouldn't have to. " That leads to Giles killing Ben (one of the best scenes EVER) - a thought that Xander thought was sick and that Buffy refused to do. Xander the bowler and construction worker "picking up a spare". Spike "crossing the threshold". And of course, Buffy and blood and all that stuff.

But that's not exactly setting the bar high, now is it? It's like an AIDS patient saying he's better off than the dude with Cancer. It's not exactly the best thing to proclaim...

Yes. HBK gets his ass kicked. *adrenaline goes up* HBK comes back. *adrenaline goes down* Back where he started (aka the results of an asskicking... aka "fucked"). Of course, HBK has the holy spirit, pixie dust, AND adrenaline to choose from - so he can come back at any time he chooses.

So how does "doing something" translate into "good"?

I don't find Raws storylines to be particularly "good". It all seems painfully same-old, same-old.

Fuck that. I'd bitch about Benoit having to fucking bump for another hoss.

Because Benoit is Benoit - and I am convinced the WWE will never do him right.

Ah, the finishing move that rarely ever finishes the match... gotcha. According to our resident Adrenaline expert, once it wears off the wrestler is basically fucked. HBK wasn't fucked. He ended up winning... More adrenaline? Does he have a needle in his tights which he busts out every time he needs a boost??? *In that context* which is "OOOOH here it comes aaaggaaaaiin!" - yes, it is magical pixie dust.

This is a lose-lose situation for Benoit. If he wins, he is jobbing to Lesnar and Cena is getting "the real" shot at RR. If he loses... he loses. He gets the "real" shot at RR, but he lost to Cena... AGAIN. The only way they can make it right is have Lesnar come in and F-5 Benoit costing him the match - as if to say he doesn't want Benoit and that Cena is an easier win. Of course, Cenamania runs wild, so I'm bettin that Cena beats Benoit in about a minute.

Oh My God. I watched "The Gift" again for the buzillionth time - and it actually got better. IMO, it's the best episode. There is SO MUCH STUFF in it. Every scene you can reference to a theme that was brought up in a previous episode. They built so much stuff in Season 5 and it all paid off in that last episode... then Season 6 comes along and totally and completely destroys it... which I think was the point; but dammit, it sure doesn't make it right "Things are always darkest before it gets bright" is so awesome cause at the end Buffy "see's the light" (both literally -the sun- and figuratively -death/blood will close the portal-) and she sees if after the "darkness" (portal) is opened.

Because I am not personally associated with it and I don't actually know the wrestlers. This creates a distance, indirectness, and a sort of insensitivity to whatever "bad" things happen. *shrugs*

Yeah, but the WWE putting it on Benoit is a validation of his skills - of his effort. It's actually doing something right. It says to everyone who says he'd never get the title, that he'd always be enhancement talent, that he's not "world championship material" - that he is. That he does have the tools to be a Main Eventer. It's the last thing Benoit has to do and if his career ends with him putting over shit like Brock and Cena - if he career was just about making others look good - the that's just wrong.

There's no such thing as crappy selling, silly. It's adrenaline.

If you have the ability to bend over you should be able to nip up, that's the long and the short of it back wise. Do you know how hard it is to bend over with a bad back? And I wouldn't equate the pressure on the back when bending over to nipping up given the amount of inertial energy attributed to the movement. That's your problem. Nobody says anything about his back being crippled or his injury being "career ending" anymore. If you still want to think it is anyway, that's fine, go ahead. Although if you remember, Jericho didn't think he was going to win their match because Shawn was the guy with the crippled back. He thought he would win because he was a better wrestler. "My skills have surpassed yours" Jericho puts him in the Walls on the floor, however. Back in, Jericho dropkicks him off the apron and gets a backdrop suplex. The psychology is pretty cut and dried here. Delayed suplex gets two. Jericho works on the neck and gets a pretty nasty backbreaker, and the Arrogant Cover~! gets two. All before the nip up (actually it was very close to the nip up). Why would Jericho target the back if it wasn't an issue?? Uh... err... ?? And, HBK didn't beat him with the kip up either. He did a kip up in the first 10 minutes and the match went on for another 15 without him doing another one. And that adrenaline lasted all those 15 minutes dispite the slow periods. Riiiight. You're right. There's no such thing as adrenaline. Scientists made it up. It's all part of the conspiracy by the Kliq. In terms of wrestling and especially the story of THAT match, the difference between Adrenaline and Magic Pixie dust is negligible. Adrenaline can be used if the story calls for it, if they built it... they didn't. They usually never do. It's bad selling. It's completely ignoring the work Jericho did. Of course, you could make the case that Shawns back was never really injured and that the nip up symbolized it... but... heh... Jericho continued to work on it and Shawn then decided to sell it... errr.. duh.... duhr... I love this board sometimes. Yeah, someone of us are so whacky with these concepts of "selling" and "story"... I forgot that wrestlers are magical creatures who summons angels whenever they choose to give them strength to get through the pain...

Ok, so it's settled. No selling is fine. It's great how wrestlers can pick and choose anytime for adrenaline to kick in. No need to put any effort in telling a story or selling an injury. Get your ass beat for 20 minutes and just get up cause adrenaline kicks in and win the match. Thank god selling is no longer important in wrestling cause for a while there, it was getting kind of annoying holding wrestlers to that standard. Someone should send smarks a memo - Wrestlers don't need to sell any more.